Status of Avalon Hill RQ3 books

[DrGoth]

On 8/5/2023 at 2:46 AM, Nick Brooke said:

Avalon Hill’s Gloranthan books and boxes,

What is the status of this material? I t would be great to see the RQ renaissance material in PDF or PoD.  I keep worrying about the longevity of my copies.

[Nick Brooke]

It is all owned by Chaosium. Because the company doesn’t currently sell a convenient edition of the RQ3 rules (and nor does it plan to reissue them as such), we aren’t encouraging people to write anything for them.

But all of the Gloranthan books and boxes are largely canonical, and since YGWV anyway you can use anything from them that you like in your own Jonstown Compendium publications - but please don’t write for that edition of the rules. (You can convert RQ3 monsters to RQ Classic or RQG, and you can ask for permission if you want to use anything else - which you might not get.)

The Jonstown Compendium welcomes material written for RuneQuest Classic and RuneQuest: Roleplaying in Glorantha because those are the two editions of the game we currently sell. We don’t want people to buy a “RuneQuest” scenario or supplement and find it’s full of an obsolete version of the Sorcery rules, etc.

The situation is much the same for QuestWorlds. The only version of the rules we are supporting is HeroQuest Glorantha (HQ 2nd edition). You can use Gloranthan stuff from any Hero Wars or HeroQuest book - since YGWV, and we really don’t care about canon on the JC - but please don’t write for obsolete versions of the rules, and don’t just copy out or paraphrase stuff from our books without asking for permission (which you might not get).

Edited August 8, 2023 by Nick Brooke

[DrGoth]

22 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

It is all owned by Chaosium. Because the company doesn’t currently sell a convenient edition of the RQ3 rules (and not does it plan to reissue them as such), we aren’t encouraging people to write anything for them.

But all of the Gloranthan books and boxes are largely canonical, and since YGWV anyway you can use anything from them that you like in your own Jonstown Compendium publications - but please don’t write for that edition of the rules. (You can convert RQ3 monsters to RQ Classic or RQG, and you can ask for permission if you want to use anything else - which you might not get).

The Jonstown Compendium welcomes material written for RuneQuest Classic and RuneQuest: Roleplaying in Glorantha because those are the two editions of the game we currently sell. We don’t want people to buy a “RuneQuest” scenario or supplement and find it’s full of an obsolete version of the Sorcery rules, etc.

The situation is much the same for QuestWorlds. The only version of the rules we are supporting is HeroQuest Glorantha (HQ 2nd edition). You can use Gloranthan stuff from any Hero Wars or HeroQuest book - since YGWV, and we really don’t care about canon on the JC - but please don’t write for obsolete versions of the rules, and don’t just copy out or paraphrase stuff from our books without asking for permission (which you might not get).

I can see why Chaosium doesn't want to bother with the RTQ3 rules. I still think it would be good to have some of those supplements available in PDF.   Sun County gets referenced a lot, but those who came along in the last 25 years may have trouble getting a copy.

[Nick Brooke]

I agree. I can’t say much more now: the thing I can confirm (which other Chaosium spokespersons have done before) is that there are no twisty rights issues (e.g. “Oh noes, Hasbro owns Avalon Hill so the RuneQuest Renaissance books are forever off-limits!”). Chaosium owns all that material outright. Be not afraid. Set no hares running. Scare no horses.

The RuneQuest Classic Kickstarter brought the RQ2 books from the late seventies and early eighties back into widespread availability in digital and print-on-demand formats; there’s no reason Chaosium couldn’t Kickstart or otherwise release the RQ3 books from the early nineties as well, other than lack of bandwidth and higher priority competing projects. (Speaking of which, have you seen the new Cults books?)

Collectors will be delighted to hear that the company is unlikely to put any real effort into reissuing stuff that has already been updated in the Guide / Sourcebook / RQG (cf. Missing Lands), or that was only converted from RQ2 to RQ3 when a RuneQuest Classic is already available (e.g. the sliced-and-diced Trollpak reissues for RQ3). Those occasional updated paragraphs and fancy new maps / artwork are yours to treasure (or indeed eBay), if we didn’t back-port them into the Classic editions.

[Rick Meints]

On 8/7/2023 at 7:56 AM, DrGoth said:

What is the status of this material? I t would be great to see the RQ renaissance material in PDF or PoD.  I keep worrying about the longevity of my copies.

As the head of Chaosium's Nostalgia Department, I feel best placed to restate the status of these sorts of things. We own all of the rights to the RQ3 material. There is only one hindrance to getting any of that material released: Time. Yes, nobody likes that answer, but that does not make it any less true. We have all our staff, except a small part of my time, focused on new product releases. While we could hire additional staff to work on these "classic reprint" projects, that just guarantees we would make less money on them when many of them are only marginally profitable. We usually only sell a few hundred of these sorts of RQ books, btw. That's PDF and POD sales. It's hard to be profitable.

[Squaredeal Sten]

59 minutes ago, Rick Meints said:

As the head of Chaosium's Nostalgia Department, I feel best placed to restate the status of these sorts of things. We own all of the rights to the RQ3 material. There is only one hindrance to getting any of that material released: Time. Yes, nobody likes that answer, but that does not make it any less true. We have all our staff, except a small part of my time, focused on new product releases. While we could hire additional staff to work on these "classic reprint" projects, that just guarantees we would make less money on them when many of them are only marginally profitable. We usually only sell a few hundred of these sorts of RQ books, btw. That's PDF and POD sales. It's hard to be profitable.

So if someone competent (not me!😄) were to volunteer (out of pure fandom and without expectation of significant profit, or with a profit-sharing deal) to scan the old copies and set them up for re-publication as PDFs, would you be likely to authorize that?  Subject to approval of the final version based on quality, of course. 

Who knows, you might have a volunteer out there.  😀  Or if you don't then that might quiet the recurring questions, since silence indicates agreement that the action would be a money loser..

Edited August 8, 2023 by Squaredeal Sten
since silence

[Rick Meints]

5 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

So if someone competent (not me!😄) were to volunteer (out of pure fandom and without expectation of significant profit, or with a profit-sharing deal) to scan the old copies and set them up for re-publication as PDFs, would you be likely to authorize that?  Subject to approval of the final version based on quality, of course. 

Who knows, you might have a volunteer out there.  😀  Or if you don't then that might quiet the recurring questions, since silence indicates agreement that the action would be a money loser..

People who want to assist the Nostalgia department are welcome to email me at rick-at-chaosium-dot-com. Please note that the main tasks are scanning, OCRing, cleaning up art in photoshop and doing layout in InDesign. Access to the original material is also required as we don't have spare paper copies of the originals to ship to people. Add all that up and that is why we get few volunteers.

NOTE: Such volunteers would be helping Chaosium produce these as Chaosium products. We are not interested in licensing this out.

[AndreJarosch]

If we have a look at all the RQ3 books, what is worth time and efford to get reprints done?

 

847 RuneQuest Deluxe Box  --> 2028 RQG

8571 RuneQuest Players Box  --> 2028 RQG

85711 Glorantha Bestiary  --> 2032 RQ Bestiary

85712 Apple Lane --> 4005 Apple Lane (RQ2) + 2029 GM Screen Pack

85713 Snake Pipe Hollow --> RQ2 4005 Snakepipe Hollow (RQ2)

85714 RuneQuest Cities  --> gereric

85715 Into the Troll Realms --> 4016 Trollpak (RQ2)

85716 Haunted Ruins --> 4016 Trollpak (RQ2)

85717 Daughters of Darkness --> to awful to think about it, non-Glorantha

8572 RuneQuest Game Masters Box --> 2028 RQG

8573 Monster Coliseum  --> generic, non-Glorantha

8574 Adventure Sheets Human  --> 2028 RQG

8575 Adventure Sheets Non Human --> 2028 RQG

8576 Vikings  --> generic, non-Glorantha

8577 Gods of Glorantha --> 4041-4049? Cults of RuneQuest

8578 Griffin Island  --> 4013 Griffin Mountain (RQ2)

8579 RuneQuest Standart Box --> 2028 RQG

8584 Land of Ninja  --> generic, non-Glorantha

8585 Glorantha - Genertela: Crucible of the Hero Wars  --> 4025/4026 Guide to Glorantha + 4033 Glorantha Sourcebook

8586 Trollpak --> 4016 Trollpak (RQ2) BUT New adventures

8587 Troll Gods --> 4016 Trollpak (RQ2) +  --> 4041-4049? Cults of RuneQuest

8588 Elder Secrets of Glorantha --> mostly: 4025/4026 Guide to Glorantha + 4033 Glorantha Sourcebook + 4039 The Smoking Ruin (parts still interesting)

8589 Eldarad, the lost City--> to awful to think about it, non-Glorantha

8590 Sun County  --> REPRINT WORTHY

8591 River of Cradles  --> 4015 Borderlands (RQ2) + 4021 Pavis (RQ2) + 4022 Big Rubble (RQ2) BUT New adventures

8592 Dorastor: Land of Doom  --> REPRINT WORTHY

8593 Strangers in Prax  --> REPRINT WORTHY

8594 Shadow on the Borderlands  --> REPRINT WORTHY

8595 Lords of Terror  --> REPRINT WORTHY

[SDLeary]

I like that list. I would, however, add Vikings and Land of Ninja (argh the 80's title). They were some of the best cultural supplements of the time.

As for the project itself, we would want to gather errata as well, and make sure it was properly integrated into the text. While we know where errata for the main book is, mostly (in the back of the softcover), I'm not sure if there are lists for the other titles that are available. 

SDLeary

Edited August 9, 2023 by SDLeary
need to use my words

[Akhôrahil]

On 8/9/2023 at 8:57 AM, AndreJarosch said:

8595 Lords of Terror  --> REPRINT WORTHY

This one is interesting. It has more meat than CoT, but the majority of stuff (far from all though) in it is going to end up in the Chaos cults book, one imagines?

Edited August 10, 2023 by Akhôrahil

[metcalph]

32 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

This one is interesting. It has more meat than CoT, but the majority of stuff (far from all though) in it is going to end up in the Chaos cults book, one imagines?

Some of the innovations are questionable and the example characters won't be in the book.

[Akhôrahil]

3 hours ago, metcalph said:

the example characters won't be in the book.

Yes exactly - parts are reprint-worthy.

[Soccercalle]

23 hours ago, SDLeary said:

I like that list. I would, however, add Vikings and Land of Ninja (argh the 80's title). They were some of the best cultural supplements of the time.

As for the project itself, we would want to gather errata as well, and make sure it was properly integrated into the text. While we know where errata for the main book is, mostly (in the back of the softcover), I'm not sure if there are lists for the other titles that are available. 

SDLeary

They are good. But maybe they should be converted to BRP?

[SDLeary]

22 hours ago, Soccercalle said:

They are good. But maybe they should be converted to BRP?

That would be an option, though if this project went forward, it would be good to have a couple of non-Gloranthan supplements, as what's presented in the core rules is a basic Earth-type early Medieval setting. 

Besides, BRP has Mythic Iceland on the way... one of these years. 

SDLeary

Edited August 11, 2023 by SDLeary
Spelling

[Jason Farrell]

33 minutes ago, SDLeary said:

 

Besides, BRP has Mythic Iceland on the way... one of these years. 

 

That year being 2012. 😉

[Agentorange]

In the Glorantha bestiary there were several creatures in there ( mostly Pamaltan I think ) that didn't get into the RQ bestiary - it'd be nice to see them provided. maybe one day if there is a Pamalta supplement we might see them there.......

Edited August 11, 2023 by Agentorange

[Rick Meints]

On 8/9/2023 at 2:57 AM, AndreJarosch said:

8590 Sun County  --> REPRINT WORTHY
8591 River of Cradles  --> 4015 Borderlands (RQ2) + 4021 Pavis (RQ2) + 4022 Big Rubble (RQ2) BUT New adventures
8592 Dorastor: Land of Doom  --> REPRINT WORTHY
8593 Strangers in Prax  --> REPRINT WORTHY
8594 Shadow on the Borderlands  --> REPRINT WORTHY
8595 Lords of Terror  --> REPRINT WORTHY

While I am happy to see you all discuss which products you want reprinted, please understand that we already pretty much have that figured out. I include the above snippet of Andre's list because those are definitely on our "want to reprint" list (please don't ask for the status). 

[DreadDomain]

12 hours ago, Rick Meints said:

While I am happy to see you all discuss which products you want reprinted, please understand that we already pretty much have that figured out. I include the above snippet of Andre's list because those are definitely on our "want to reprint" list (please don't ask for the status). 

Thanks Rick, that is very helpful.

While discussing what we want (and I am NOT asking you to answer me in any way), my dream RQ3 reprint would be:

RuneQuest 3rd based on the Deluxe 1993 paperback with the inclusion of:

• the Genertelan Character Creation (page 22 to 34 of the Genertelan's Player's Book from the Genertela box) added to Book 5: Glorantha Book
• the errata at the back of the paperback incorporated in the text.

But I would also settle for just the RQ3 paperback 😉

With that, anyone could use RQG products and mix and match with any kind of flavors from RQ1, RQ2 and RQ3.

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by DreadDomain

[Martin Dick]

Hasn't this been already done for Strangers in Prax by Ian Thomson and co? (

)

[AndreJarosch]

13 hours ago, Rick Meints said:

While I am happy to see you all discuss which products you want reprinted, please understand that we already pretty much have that figured out. I include the above snippet of Andre's list because those are definitely on our "want to reprint" list (please don't ask for the status). 

And THAT is an answer a potential helper with scanning, OCRing, etc. can work with. 

Thank you very much for the clarification, Rick! 
Helpful as ever. 
 

Edited August 12, 2023 by AndreJarosch

[Ian A. Thomson]

On 8/12/2023 at 2:55 PM, Martin Dick said:

Hasn't this been already done for Strangers in Prax by Ian Thomson and co? (

)

Yup, all done last year. Full text recovery and editing, all images salvaged, even cover (and even errata incorporated!)

Labour of love, and one I was happy to spend time on and co-ordinate other fine folk doing the same

Still hoping it leads to a re-release as pdf

As an addendum, we are also still happy to complete the job and recreate the product exactly as it was (or with the addition of an appendix of some notes on running the sorcerer characters as GMCs without needing sorcery rules). I'd prefer the latter, but am happy with the former if thats the preference from the folk in charge

If a go ahead is granted, probably could have it done in a month

Just as soon as someone official says Yes

If such a Yes was forthcoming, I'd be happy to put equal efforts into reclaiming Shadows on the Borderlands too. (Just in case anyone at Chaosium HQ wants to jump on this offer!) :)

Edited August 13, 2023 by Ian A. Thomson