Thantar Tarnished Silver

[Erol of Backford]

Is there a way to clean chaos Thanatar tarnished silver?

Would it need to be melted down in say Oakfed's fires to rid the taint or would that not even do it?

Does it detect as chaotic?

Would only Thanatar cultists touching silver tarnish it or would Vivamort worshipers also (not heard this but wondering).

Does anyone have links to real world armor that could not be worn in decent company?

[Ali the Helering]

[svensson]

Barman's Friend cleaner. Works on everything, even sabers. Yes, I DO have reason to know that 😁

[Nozbat]

I read the description as it was only tarnished to make it black? No self respecting Vampire is going to wear bright silver armour, wouldn’t be Brat would it?

I’d assume it is wearable by anyone SIZ 11 +/- 1..but has a health warning ‘not to be worn in decent company’ due to shocking Vivamort imagery

My question is what exactly is ‘decent company’? 

 

[svensson]

7 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Is there a way to clean chaos Thanatar tarnished silver?

Would it need to be melted down in say Oakfed's fires to rid the taint or would that not even do it?

Does it detect as chaotic?

Would only Thanatar cultists touching silver tarnish it or would Vivamort worshipers also (not heard this but wondering).

Does anyone have links to real world armor that could not be worn in decent company?

To directly answer your question, Erol, the way I present Tarnished Silver in my game is that it does NOT detect as 'Chaotic', but most anti-Chaos groups know EXACTLY what it is. The tarnish patina has a certain 'wrongness' to it... no metal tarnishes like it naturally. It's like a pond of water with gasoline on the surface.

As for removing the taint, other than Rune level fires there is no way to remove it. A simple forge wouldn't do it but I suppose a Sunspear would work, but that's pretty wasteful of a rare spell and several Rune Points. However, a great many cults will gladly accept it in order to sacrifice it. It also 'proves' that you're a Chaos-killer. +1d4% Rep, baby!

Any Chaotic cultist would be happy to have tarnished silver equipment, but Thanatar and Vivamort make the most use of it.

As for not being worn in decent company, the taint on the armor just looks wrong to people. A Storm Bull or Orlanth worshiper would twig to it right off. And that's not even getting into the Runes on the armor. Remember, most people cast, emboss, or carve their Runic affiliations on their gear. Often those Runes are focii for spells and enchantments.

Also, it's germane to mention that there are certain styles of gear that give a hint of its origin. Orlanthi mail is made like a full hauberk [like the Gaulish bronze hauberks of Earth] while Lunar armor is VERY different... looking rather like Roman lorica hamata. This is a major reason why one would have captured armors refitted at a smithy. You don't want to be caught with Lunar gear during the Occupation, right?

Edited August 31 by svensson

[Nozbat]

45 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

Does anyone have links to real world armor that could not be worn in decent company?

The only thing I can think of is Blackadder and the Black Russian

 

[jajagappa]

6 hours ago, svensson said:

As for removing the taint, other than Rune level fires there is no way to remove it. A simple forge wouldn't do it but I suppose a Sunspear would work, but that's pretty wasteful of a rare spell and several Rune Points.

Oakfed's (aka Enverinus) Holy Fire should work to remove the taint. 

[Squaredeal Sten]

I would think that Gustbran initiates using Heat Metal 6 and/or maybe summoning a fire elemental (or using the elemental that lives in their forge, perhaps as a wyter for the guild) , would be able to reduce tarnished silver to an untarnished puddle.  Of course Gustbtran is Oakfed's brother.

Lodril might be able to do it too, but separating the silver from the lava would be like mining it all over again.

Edited August 31 by Squaredeal Sten
typing errors

[Malin]

My players just went "hell no" and buried it again...

[Darius West]

11 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Is there a way to clean chaos Thanatar tarnished silver?

Yes.  Melt it down and alchemically purify it in the presence of the Sun, and the cleansing acids of Nelat.

11 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Does it detect as chaotic?

No.

11 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Would only Thanatar cultists touching silver tarnish it or would Vivamort worshipers also (not heard this but wondering).

The black tarnishing of the silver is due to it being stored under the effects of Thanatari Darklight for a year, imo.

11 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Does anyone have links to real world armor that could not be worn in decent company?

Yes.  It is called a dress or parade uniform.  You give your armor a very good spit and polish and use a sand tray or tumbler to make it shine.  Send your tabard, underpadding, and tunic to be laundered.  Make sure all the lice are picked out of the laces of your armor, and wear a bright new freshly dyed cloak of rich fabric.

[Joerg]

14 hours ago, svensson said:

Orlanthi mail is made like a full hauberk [like the Gaulish bronze hauberks of Earth] while Lunar armor is VERY different... looking rather like Roman lorica hamata.

Canonically, chainmail is a technology limited to iron, and is produced by Mostali. There is no documented mass use of such equipment east of the Tanier River (and west of the Shan Shan - no idea about Kralori and Vithelan armor tech).

Lunar armor is based on Carmanian armor, which is a mix of western horseman armor of plate or scale on leather and of Pelandan hoplite cuirasses. The latter were used by the early LUnar forces to create the dragoons, hoplite-armored riders made up from zealotous volunteers who only gradually acquired cavalry savoire-faire but who would dismount as phalangists when required.

Orlanthi heavy cavalry uses armor that has commonalities with the armor used by the Slontans and the Old Pavisites (as in the Pavis Royal Guard zebra cavalry) in the Second Age, finicked with by local smiths for the requirements of rather heavy shock cavalry. These make up the Sartarite city militia and plenty of the Free Army mounted forces, and also the Native Tarshite and Provincial Lunar equipment comes from this tradition, as the (then still future) Sartarites inherited the equipment and tactics from Tarshite King Yarandros "Charge-crazy".

Orlanthi foot militia will be your typical shield-wearing spearman trained for the shield wall, with rather too much individual training in their honorable side arms. Few non-Sun Domers will wear hoplite armor, but peltast warfare is rampant in the Provinces and would have been in demand under Yarandros, too, with such equipment also entering the Quivini tribes before the arrival of Sartar.

[Erol of Backford]

4 hours ago, Darius West said:

Yes.  It is called a dress or parade uniform. 

I was looking for something real world or not that had "shocking imagery" was thinking most people wouldn't walk down the street with say porn on their t-shirt?

So if players wore it in a city they'd be in trouble?

[svensson]

2 hours ago, Joerg said:

Canonically, chainmail is a technology limited to iron, and is produced by Mostali. There is no documented mass use of such equipment east of the Tanier River (and west of the Shan Shan - no idea about Kralori and Vithelan armor tech).

Lunar armor is based on Carmanian armor, which is a mix of western horseman armor of plate or scale on leather and of Pelandan hoplite cuirasses. The latter were used by the early LUnar forces to create the dragoons, hoplite-armored riders made up from zealotous volunteers who only gradually acquired cavalry savoire-faire but who would dismount as phalangists when required.

Orlanthi heavy cavalry uses armor that has commonalities with the armor used by the Slontans and the Old Pavisites (as in the Pavis Royal Guard zebra cavalry) in the Second Age, finicked with by local smiths for the requirements of rather heavy shock cavalry. These make up the Sartarite city militia and plenty of the Free Army mounted forces, and also the Native Tarshite and Provincial Lunar equipment comes from this tradition, as the (then still future) Sartarites inherited the equipment and tactics from Tarshite King Yarandros "Charge-crazy".

Orlanthi foot militia will be your typical shield-wearing spearman trained for the shield wall, with rather too much individual training in their honorable side arms. Few non-Sun Domers will wear hoplite armor, but peltast warfare is rampant in the Provinces and would have been in demand under Yarandros, too, with such equipment also entering the Quivini tribes before the arrival of Sartar.

In RQ3 there were numerous references to chainmail equipping NPCs and in River of Cradles it mentions that the Zola Fel river folk can get the PC's 'some Lunar chainmail, but it's distinctive as Lunar... you may not want them seeing you in it.'

That doesn't mean that you're not correct, but that's where I got my info from.

[Nozbat]

3 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

I was looking for something real world or not that had "shocking imagery" was thinking most people wouldn't walk down the street with say porn on their t-shirt?

Maybe look at the graffiti on the walls of Pompeii or Herculaneum … though I’m not sure people at the time necessarily saw it as shocking???

https://kashgar.com.au/blogs/history/the-bawdy-graffiti-of-pompeii-and-herculaneu

 

 

[Erol of Backford]

1 hour ago, Nozbat said:

Pompeii or Herculaneum

That's great stuff, we hope to go to Italy next year and so be sure to check it out as we are able. Thanks!

[French Desperate WindChild]

On 8/31/2024 at 2:31 PM, Erol of Backford said:

I was looking for something real world or not that had "shocking imagery" was thinking most people wouldn't walk down the street with say porn on their t-shirt?

So if players wore it in a city they'd be in trouble?

I think that what is shocking is to wear any symbol promoting an enemy (cult or country) from where you are (« i love the red moon » t-shirt in Argrath ´s Pavis for example) or insulting local power/tradition (a picture with the red emperor welcoming a broo in his back in glamour for example )

however I think that wearing any strong armor in a peaceful, well organized city could be seen as shocking too if you don’t show a sign of good reason (army, holy warrior,member of the guard, etc …)

Of course it depends where you are , who rules , etc…

[Sir_Godspeed]

"Shocking Vivamort imagery" is likely to be associated with the myths of Vivamort, right? So images of blood-drinking, corpse-consumption, raising undead, grave and corpse desecration and so on. Maybe some aspirational things, like Vivamort consuming the sun, or consuming Ernalda/the fertile earth. 

Maybe look at Medieval plague "danse macabre" imagery for inspiration, though it's not going to be directly parallel of course (Vivamort is not a plague deity, iirc.)

[Erol of Backford]

14 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

"Shocking Vivamort imagery"

I am likely a bit twisted but most vampire movies are a bit sexual or at least those I've seen so I thought there'd be all sorts of what most would consider perverted sexual imagery on the armor... not that blood drinking and corpse consumption would be acceptable in decent company either!

Makes me wonder to vampires in Glorantha need to eat maybe similar to ghouls or just drink blood? (slightly off topic)

Back on topic: if Thanatar cultists imported the best Kralorelaian lacquer and painted their silver with it it'd not tarnish as they'd not be touching it.  On several projects in a past life of mine, high traffic areas which had stainless steel finishes were actually painted with a highly durable clear paint to ward fingerprints...

Diamond dwarves swear by it and although they will not admit it they trade with Thanatar cultists regularly for tarnished silver and gold.

Does anyone have a source for a dwarven Thanatar head?

[French Desperate WindChild]

4 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

I am likely a bit twisted but most vampire movies

that's a romantic version since 19 century I think (and something I like btw) but I would not apply it for glorantha.

However I think that you can put sexual imagery with any cult, put perversion when god is perverse, put ... nothing... when god is Yelmalio 😛 

 

[EricW]

On 8/31/2024 at 12:28 PM, jajagappa said:

Oakfed's (aka Enverinus) Holy Fire should work to remove the taint. 

But surely the tainted silver would be consumed by Oakfed's fire - like nothing left afterwards. 

[jajagappa]

6 hours ago, EricW said:

But surely the tainted silver would be consumed by Oakfed's fire - like nothing left afterwards.

Or perhaps it transforms the metal into tin (since that is Dayzatar's/Aether's metal)?

[Joerg]

I don't think that the Thanatari tarnish can be removed from silver, not even by melting it down and casting or smithing it anew. While the metal still has some of the (magical) properties of silver (e.g. against werewolves), it has lost its Light attribute to some extent and won't shine or reflect any more. It has lost its power of reflection, too, making it useless to Lunars.

[mfbrandi]

Thanatar heads — especially eggheads, which are the most valuable to the knowledge thief — generate hydrogen sulfide due to some anaerobic rot going on deep inside them. Even the Thanatari don’t like the smell, and that is why they favour silver: the gas reacts with the silver to form black silver sulfide — no more stinkdamp.

To improve the efficiency of this system, the silver is cursed to make it attract hydrogen sulfide. Without Divine Intervention (or even heavier magic) to remove the curse, all fixes for black Thanatarnished silver are temporary: the cleaned silver will just attract more H₂S and blacken again.

[Erol of Backford]

14 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

but I would not apply it for glorantha

Curious why not, are vampires' desires different than real world vampires in Glorantha?

Also still curious as to vampires needing to eat like say ghouls?

The next question is if they have no "sexual desires" couldn't they just drink animal blood and forget all the secrecy stuff. Be out in the open and drink cow blood or something? Makes me think of the white healer broo who isn't chaotic or should I say acts chaotic. Maybe vampires become illuminated and decide that they want to be professors in a LM temple and continue to teach for centuries.

How is that different than longevity or immortality potions of the West besides that you are dead of course!?

4 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

To improve the efficiency of this system, the silver is cursed to make it attract hydrogen sulfide.

Would an illuminated Thanatar with no heads still attract H2S?

5 hours ago, Joerg said:

I don't think that the Thanatari tarnish can be removed from silver, not even by melting it down and casting or smithing it anew.

YGWV: Isidilian owns the patten on Quickshine and as I said, he trades it far and wide to Thanatarians who like to make their silver shine and or go unnoticed... there is the coating of silver to keep it from tarnishing as well which he'll through in for 25% off. This is noted in the RQ Adventures 05. Several quarts of the stuff was found in Baron Voorstik's basement. Also Duke Raus had some delivered to his manor after some of the Pola family dined at Raus Fort. The Lunar noble families use the stuff a good bit as they have some Thantari who keep slain relatives shrunken heads on belts. They use Tap Size to shrink them down to size 1 before decapitating them. Makes them much more portable and very easy to hide.

Come to think of it a civilized Thantari with sorcery could be a really interesting adventure plot. You could use the same premise as the trollkin coming to look for it's master, Chazo the Zorak Zoran initiate who's head hangs on a belt...

Good stuff.

[Erol of Backford]

13 hours ago, EricW said:

But surely the tainted silver would be consumed by Oakfed's fire - like nothing left afterwards. 

How hot is Oakfed?

Pure silver has a melting point of 961.8°C (1,763.24°F)...