Jump to content
Iskallor

Prax and the thousand questions about the place.

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Jeff said:

...

2. He's dead.

...

 

 

59 minutes ago, svensson said:

...

2. I didn't know he died. Still, the story must be interesting. He wasn't a bad boss in the RQ2 game I played in.

...

Exactly. So the question is how and when.

1 hour ago, svensson said:

...

3. ... I haven't gotten the Bestiary yet, to I'll take your word for it on the Agimori [extra points for character generation info :) ]. ...

It's with the description in the Bestiary.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Joerg said:

So there are termites or some equivalent in the Chaparral?

Maybe, perhaps, could be, it's level of detail that doesn't really need filling out IMO.

4 hours ago, Joerg said:

What happens to them at the Paps?

They hang out like sacred cows

4 hours ago, Joerg said:

Is the Sacred Ground populated by such unclaimed herds?

A few, most are the animal entourage of the rare intelligent herd beasts, most are priestesses of Eiritha or Khans of Waha.

4 hours ago, Joerg said:

Hmm. If one would find an unclaimed herdman herd, my proposal for getting adoptees for a new tribe might be easier.

Currently all "wild" herdmen are under the protection of the Most Respected Elder, a morokanth. However that would be part of the adventure.

4 hours ago, Joerg said:

So no attempt to contact the lost ancestors of those tribes?

depends what you mean by lost ancestors, these are the ancestors. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Moreover, this might be something your average Praxian takes for granted, or has never really thought about at all. Animals do what they do, and it doesn't really require lots of concern. You might get laughed at or given strange looks if you brought it up to them.

This really what it's all about.

I'd certainly recommend looking at other animist cultures as well as the amazon. The amazon has it's own spiritual flavour, compare to Siberian, transpolar culture, australian, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

EDIT: I went a bit too long here, pardon the indulgence.

Thanks for indulging. rather.

4 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

In terms of literature on Amazonian animism, at least - the widespread fear of cannibalism is tied into this. If everything in nature is sapient and related, then everything you eat is essentially an act of cannibalism.

That's what my purely rational observation of the animist world view has led me to believe, too. But then, Human wasn't born as a hunter, he needed to be taught to hunt (and later even butcher his herd kin) in Praxian myth.

4 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

The implication is that, yes, everything is intelligent - but it's not the same kind of intelligence.

Is it really a different form of personhood, or is it native destiny of the carnivores (and carnivorous omnivores) vs. cultural acquisition of killing for life?

Sorry that I ignore all the Amazon jungle context, but this is the Prax thread.

We know about the log walkers from Wendaria and their Golden Age hunting that allowed the creatures they had hunted with their version of the Peaceful Cut  (which involved paintin the likeness of the beast onto a wall, to give it a temporary home until the next morning, or otherwise a place to re-emerge, accepting the painting as its new manifestation in tomorrow's reality). Basically the same deal Thor gets when slaughtering one of the billy goats drawing his chariot (Thor needs to collect all the bones undamaged inside the hide to re-awaken his beast).

In Golden Age Wendaria, there would have been carnivorous beasts, too. The beast myths (e.g. the Fiwan witnesses of Earthmaker's Creation) are from all types of beasts, probably to the chagrin of God Learner propoinents of an universal elemental progression. (But then the beast progeny matrix presented in Anaxial's Roster comes up with a quite unexpected 5 by eight table.)

The coming of Death ended that..Beasts that got hunted stayed dead, and needed to be slowly reborn rather than re-emering after a short period of absence.

This would have affected all hunters, whether beasts or humans. And human hunters had to shft their efforts from greeting the slain beasts back into life the next morning to ensuring their safe passage into the spirit world, from where they could be born again.

Now to the question at hand - was this rebirth in a new generation rather than the return to their old self in a reconstituted body the ancient way that happened to all beasts eaten by other beasts, or did they have their equivalent of invisible villages, shamans etc. to get this going? Is this what the oriastic and bloody Wild Temple rites which have both beastmen and ordinary-appearing beasts participating are about? Did Genert's Garden have a version of this?

Looking through the cult skills, I notice that neither Telmori nor Yinkini receive Peaceful Cut, while Foundchild, Odayla and Waha do. This might mean that all children of Fralar are exempt from this rite, possibly having it as an innate ability. Odayla, although a bear god, doesn't seem to have a claim on Fralar as his ancestor (any more). Yinkin does, despite his choice to stand with his maternal half-brother rather than his paternal ones.

The Telmori have no need for Foundchild or an equivalent for Brother Dog, Telmor fills all these needs. Yinkin is part of a much more complex environment, but either he doesn't need anything like this, either, or he just doesn't care. I am curious how this will turn out for the Basmoli Berserks when they get their RQG treatment. The only other Hsunchen in the region (Harrek) is long past such considerations.

I do note that it was Teknor who ate the sun, without any reard for its return.

Baboons don't have Peaceful Cut, either. But then neither do Men-and-a-Half, who do have Foundchild as one of their cult options.

Do Praxians who worship Daka Fal or Storm Bull get Peaceful Cut? Does Lay Membership convey this skill?

4 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Anyway, to cut a long story short - it is entirely possible that in the Praxian worldview, the animal members of the Covenant of Waha* are seen as naturally conducting a Peaceful Cut (or bite) when eating flesh.

Not so fast... I don't think that there are carnovorous beasts that are part of the Covenant. The carnivore beasts had to adapt along with Foundchild in the Lesser Darkness, not along with the Beast Riders at the end of the Greater Darkness.

Eiritha still is "in" the compact of the hunted, along with Frog Woman and probably a number of other spirits. The Covenant is unusual in making her offspring (humans, Morokanth) part of the Eaters rather than the hunted/eaten.

4 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Moreover, this might be something your average Praxian takes for granted, or has never really thought about at all. Animals do what they do, and it doesn't really require lots of concern. You might get laughed at or given strange looks if you brought it up to them. A shaman would perhaps consider it more carefully, though, or even be surprised that you have insight into secret/privileged lore. It's like going up to a medieval Christian farmer and asking him what happens to an animal after death. Who cares, you know? Ask the priest - the farmer is busy. So you go asking the priest, and he gets upset because your question might be taken for implying heathenry or heresy, or he may explain to you how souls were doled out during the creation of the world, or whatever.

True. This is a question to (and from) people on the track of holiness, e.g. assistant shamans. I don't think it takes Enlightenment to arrive at such questions, rather that people who have such thoughts volunteer themselves for religious duties.

4 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

(*It's my understanding that it is the membership in the Covenant that dictates whether someone is a relevant partner to the Peaceful Cut, whether as cutter or cut. If bugs aren't a part of the Covenant, a question over whether they need to the Peaceful Cut is rendered moot. I could be wrong, of course. It might apply to every living animal. Since Votanki also use it(?) it might be universal for the animist groups in Glorantha.)

I would differentiate between pastoralists slaughtering a herd beast from their herds (Covenant, whether raided from other tribes or beasts from their own tribe) or hunters killing wild prey (which may be unaligned Eirithan beasts, too, like e.g. wild zebras).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Oracle said:

Exactly. So the question is how and when.

He dies however you want, Ronegarth overwhelmed by Praxian raiders, knife in the back double-crossed by a guide on a secret route out, assassinated by those who think he will tell secrets to Argrath, adventures seeking revenge, strangled in the bath by a servant. Likely his body is never found, so in true storytelling style is he really dead. It's your game.

Edited by David Scott
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Baboons don't have Peaceful Cut, either. But then neither do Men-and-a-Half, who do have Foundchild as one of their cult options.

Do Praxians who worship Daka Fal or Storm Bull get Peaceful Cut? Does Lay Membership convey this skill?

Everyone knows the peaceful cut at 10% (+/- bonus), it's just how good you are at doing it. Cults and cultures teach how to be better at it. RQG page  181. Waha expects everyone to be better than foreigners at it. 

Even in our modern culture most people have it at 10%. Most can prepare meat to a certain level and say "grace" (including other cultural versions such as halal & kosher slaughter). In my youth I worked as an assistant butcher, i suspect my level is a bit higher. Even at 5% most could hack the leg off a cow or sheep and cook it over a fire. Might not look pretty but would likely be tasty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Termites in Prax:

12 minutes ago, David Scott said:

Maybe, perhaps, could be, it's level of detail that doesn't really need filling out IMO.

I think that their presence or absence does make a great difference in the amount of food available to herd men, frogs, hyenas, birds of various kinds (that want something else than bluebottle flies). Termite presence also changes the landscape.

There are no other grasslands to be inhabited by termites than on Genertela. I don't think that the Pamaltelan herbs of the veldt would support termites. (You can still get the type that infests dead wood near forests or where humans build with timber.)

Bluebottle flies may have entered Prax only alongside the Pol Joni and their herds.

The impoverished ecology of Prax and the Wastes has a few weird consequences.

Take for instance fuel for campfires. The Beast Rider tribes have a ready source of fuel dropping out of the behinds of their herd beasts. How much of that do they collect? What happens to the droppings they don't collect, provided they don't collect all? This is where the insect population of Prax comes in. Are there scarabs? We know that the bogs do support teeming insect life, with giant insects around Corflu. What about the drier parts of Prax and the Wastes?

What do the Men-and-a-Half use for fuel, and can they get more flame out of fuel than the Beast Riders, or do they have to go on gathering expeditions near Beast Rider herds? Do they even trade for fuel with the Beast Riders? They don't appear to raid cattle (they are absent from "Khan of Khans", too).

What Praxian (or other) food do bachelor newtlings consume? Can they feed only in the Praxian wetlands?

 

12 minutes ago, David Scott said:

depends what you mean by lost ancestors, these are the ancestors. 

By "lost ancestors" I mean some of the past members of these tribes who might become available to their Axis Mundi, other than just the heroquesters and their beasts from Godtime. The Heroquesters could have contacted some of them in Godtime, too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, David Scott said:

Everyone knows the peaceful cut at 10% (+/- bonus), it's just how good you are at doing it. Cults and cultures teach how to be better at it. RQG page  181. Waha expects everyone to be better than foreigners at it. 

Even in our modern culture most people have it at 10%. Most can prepare meat to a certain level and say "grace" (including other cultural versions such as halal & kosher slaughter). In my youth I worked as an assistant butcher, i suspect my level is a bit higher. Even at 5% most could hack the leg off a cow or sheep and cook it over a fire. Might not look pretty but would likely be tasty.

I am fairly trained in gutting and even filleting marine fish and might be able to transfer that experience to other vertebrates, but I suppose I would suck big time at giving the proper grace right now. I have no idea how much this Peaceful Cut business applies to fishing, anyway, although it will be useful for Zola Fel river folk and Pelaskites to know. While it is good praxis to cut the fish so it can bleed out, that doesn't exactly kill them. Usually you just stun them badly by hitting their head with or against some wood before applying the cut, with a good chance that the stun is permanent.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...