Prax and the thousand questions about the place.

[Geoff R Evil]

23 minutes ago, radmonger said:

Remember to point out to your players that one possible outcome of that quest is the creation of a new tribe of equine morokanth. 

Hippogriffs work quite well for that; they probably already eat people. And would eat them more if not for the existence of bows and spears.

Relevant: 

 

awesome video and perfectly describes heroquesting thanks

[Erol of Backford]

Do we have rainbows in Prax or Glorantha at all? What about cacti?

If we do possibly this shot was taken just east of the Marcher Barons Fortress facing slightly west of north with the mountains a bit further left of field as the Storm Bull wanders back to Stormwalk from Praxin the early evening... something like that.

Do we have rainbows and cacti? 

 

[hipsterinspace]

41 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

Do we have rainbows in Prax or Glorantha at all?

Rainbow Girl is a known spirit in Prax, she is the messenger between gods and men. She is the child of air and water and travels on a bridge of rainbows. I think I remember reading somewhere that she’s a spirit of the Thirstless Society. On Well of Daliath her runes are listed as Air, Harmony, and Water. She is described briefly in Nomad Gods but the details on her are pretty sparse.

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

What about cacti?

Guide p.440 on the Wastes: "The plant life of the Wastelands is scrubby, tough, and sparse. There are thornbushes, cacti, and clumpy grasses."

And p.447: "Cactus Desert: This is the bleakest inhabitable part of the Wastes, mostly because of the malevolent influence of the Raging Storm, the persistent but erratic confluence of ill winds that plague the Wastes and make its difficult environment almost impossible, even for the hardy Praxians."

Cactus Desert is a large area between the Sandstorm Hills to the west and the Tunneled Hills/Plateau of Statues to the east.  Potentially you could still have cacti in other sections of the Wastes, but this sounds like the most extensive area.

[SDLeary]

6 hours ago, jajagappa said:

And p.447: "Cactus Desert: This is the bleakest inhabitable part of the Wastes, mostly because of the malevolent influence of the Raging Storm, the persistent but erratic confluence of ill winds that plague the Wastes and make its difficult environment almost impossible, even for the hardy Praxians."

Cactus Desert is a large area between the Sandstorm Hills to the west and the Tunneled Hills/Plateau of Statues to the east.  Potentially you could still have cacti in other sections of the Wastes, but this sounds like the most extensive area.

I missed this in the guide... So seeing this has caused my head to churn... and churn... and out spilled... Cactus Aldryami!

SDLeary

[Squaredeal Sten]

On 4/11/2019 at 11:50 AM, Joerg said:

Termites in Prax:

I think that their presence or absence does make a great difference in the amount of food available to herd men, frogs, hyenas, birds of various kinds (that want something else than bluebottle flies). Termite presence also changes the landscape.

There are no other grasslands to be inhabited by termites than on Genertela. I don't think that the Pamaltelan herbs of the veldt would support termites. (You can still get the type that infests dead wood near forests or where humans build with timber.)

Bluebottle flies may have entered Prax only alongside the Pol Joni and their herds.

The impoverished ecology of Prax and the Wastes has a few weird consequences.

Take for instance fuel for campfires. The Beast Rider tribes have a ready source of fuel dropping out of the behinds of their herd beasts. How much of that do they collect? What happens to the droppings they don't collect, provided they don't collect all? This is where the insect population of Prax comes in. Are there scarabs? We know that the bogs do support teeming insect life, with giant insects around Corflu. What about the drier parts of Prax and the Wastes?

What do the Men-and-a-Half use for fuel, and can they get more flame out of fuel than the Beast Riders, or do they have to go on gathering expeditions near Beast Rider herds? Do they even trade for fuel with the Beast Riders? They don't appear to raid cattle (they are absent from "Khan of Khans", too).

What Praxian (or other) food do bachelor newtlings consume? Can they feed only in the Praxian wetlands?

 

By "lost ancestors" I mean some of the past members of these tribes who might become available to their Axis Mundi, other than just the heroquesters and their beasts from Godtime. The Heroquesters could have contacted some of them in Godtime, too.

My own image of Prax is West Texas and New Mexico. Which is not very different from some of the Arizona photos Jeff has shown. 

There is plenty of fuel there other than herd beast dung.  Wildfires are occasionally a problem.  While at  lower elevations trees are only found near watercourses, and large trees are very rare, seasonal watercourses are good enough to grow  trees.  The trees away from watercourses which are native to the area are usually Mesquite, which usually appears as "brush" but occasionally grows to 20+ feet and a couple of feet thick, like the one in my daughter's back yard.  

Anyway, the " brush" will support campfires.  No big logs, obviously, so you have to keep feeding the fire.

To the extent that the trees on watercouses are cottonwood, that is not good firewood.  It burns too quickly.  It's the cotton candy of trees, looks good but does not nourish a fire.  If you give cottonwood to Oakfed, he probably curses you.

At higher elevations in New Mexico there are pine forests.  For thousands of years these provided lumber for roof beams for people who lived days' journeys away.  Not firewood, that's too hard to haul without wheels.  

Edited March 13, 2023 by Squaredeal Sten
Added paragraph

[g33k]

The substantive presence of Oakfed in Prax -- not just as a historical feature, but "Oakfed Shaman" as a viable/playable PC, & Oakfed (the spirit) being a Big Deal -- speaks to there being substantive (if scattered) presence of trees in Prax.

YGMV

Edited March 13, 2023 by g33k

[Erol of Backford]

7 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

If you give cottonwood to Oakfed, he probably curses you.

Yes seems likely.

From the web, thought of smoke and smoke signals, I suppose a bit of that going on in Prax but hadn't thought about it...

Cottonwood is considered a clean-burning wood that produces a light smoke. Cottonwood fires that put out a lot of smoke are a sign of still-green firewood. When seasoned, cottonwood produces a moderate amount of smoke, but not much more than oak. Cottonwood fires can create moderate creosote deposits.

Looked for Go Go Gophers sending smoke signals but didn't find a good clip...

[Rob Darvall]

8 hours ago, g33k said:

The substantive presence of Oakfed in Prax -- not just as a historical feature, but "Oakfed Shaman" as a viable/playable PC, & Oakfed (the spirit) being a Big Deal -- speaks to there being substantive (if scattered) presence of trees in Prax.

YGMV

Grassfires. Fast running, and if the grass is even waist high very bloody dangerous. And they turn REALLY quickly. You can be hosing down a 2 foot high fire and in less than a second have a six foot wall of flame in your face (I'm grateful for the CFA's PPE).

Plus they feel malicious. I've seen fire creep across the dusty remnants of a suburban lawn to "get to" the dry kikuyu stands on the other side. I knew it was just physics but it felt like the fire was playing us.

Prax after a good season could have a very high fine fuel load and go off like a bomb. 

[g33k]

2 minutes ago, Rob Darvall said:

Grassfires. Fast running, and if the grass is even waist high very bloody dangerous. And they turn REALLY quickly. You can be hosing down a 2 foot high fire and in less than a second have a six foot wall of flame in your face (I'm grateful for the CFA's PPE).

Plus they feel malicious. I've seen fire creep across the dusty remnants of a suburban lawn to "get to" the dry kikuyu stands on the other side. I knew it was just physics but it felt like the fire was playing us.

Prax after a good season could have a very high fine fuel load and go off like a bomb. 

Yes indeed!  But the spirit in question is Oakfed, not Grassfed.  

IMG, they are two different spirits... but frequent allies who often cooperate!
Oakfed, of course, is a spirit-name and actually reflects "tree" fires in general.
Oakfed burns hotter, burns longer.
Oakfed can "go to ground," and linger as smoldering embers in roots&c, and burst forth days/weeks/months later.

Grassfed isn't limited to grasses:  it happily takes shrub/brush, dry duff, etc... all the lower-lying, tinder-y, lights-easy, burns-quickly sorts of things.
Grassfed is more intimate with the winds & breezes, generally spreading quicker for their aid (though Oakfed too spreads with the wind; but Oakfed is fierce enough to sometimes spread against the wind!).

Oakfed and Grassfed can also "share" -- low shrubby trees, tall & woody bushes, etc.  Both spirits can burn both places.

Oakfed & Grassfed summon one another:

• Oakfed's embers fall onto Grassfed's fuels, and call...
• Grassfed's flames reach up into Oakfed's fuels, and call...

Most of these fire-spirits remember that "Sky" is their home (the Rune is  -- Fire/Sky -- after all!) and in the presence of a steep hill tend to race up it, reaching for the sky as quickly as they can.

But I feel this may be straying from the purpose of the thread... maybe get an Admin to fork our digression, if we want to proceed? 

[metcalph]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

Yes indeed!  But the spirit in question is Oakfed, not Grassfed.  
 

Oakfed is so-called because he was fed the oaks of Prax in the Great Darkness.  He does not feed exclusively on oaks or even woody plants in general as he appeared at the Battle of Moonbroth where there are no large trees.

[g33k]

11 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Oakfed is so-called because he was fed the oaks of Prax in the Great Darkness.  He does not feed exclusively on oaks or even woody plants in general as he appeared at the Battle of Moonbroth where there are no large trees.

I need to read up on the details of Moonbroth  (I don't recall that I ever have seen an account of any of the battles) but... did he just "appear" or was he summoned?

And did he linger after, to burn extra?  Was it a problem to get rid of him, after the battle?

[Erol of Backford]

On 8/3/2018 at 11:30 PM, JonL said:

Put me in the creepy awesome herd-man eating Morokanth camp, where getting to have conciousness be the norm is winning rather than having to keep herds being losing.

Were there any large scale attacks or wars against the Morokanth to try and eliminate them? If so when and who was the attacker?

[Erol of Backford]

15 minutes ago, g33k said:

And did he linger after, to burn extra?  Was it a problem to get rid of him, after the battle?

Like in Harry Potter, something went wrong with the wand and the fire wouldn't listen any longer...

[Erol of Backford]

On 3/12/2023 at 3:41 PM, jajagappa said:

"The plant life of the Wastelands is scrubby, tough, and sparse. There are thornbushes, cacti, and clumpy grasses."

So it is a variation of the southwestern US... any pueblos in Prax?

21 hours ago, SDLeary said:

Cactus Aldryami!

Eldar Secrets really only shows Broo/Chaos out in the middle of Prax but there could small groups of chaos elves living in the Krjalki Bog?

32 minutes ago, Rob Darvall said:

Prax after a good season could have a very high fine fuel load and go off like a bomb. 

I suppose it could be a way to set an ambush for enemies or wild animals, burn or smoke them out or drive them over a cliff maybe?

6 minutes ago, g33k said:

Most of these fire-spirits remember that "Sky" is their home (the Rune is  -- Fire/Sky -- after all!) and in the presence of a steep hill tend to race up it, reaching for the sky as quickly as they can.

Fire sweeping up the hillside especially with winds pushing them sounds a lot like my first hand experiences in Colorado and its wild fires... Waldo Canyon, we had to evacuate as we lived at the north end of the Garden of the Gods, scary stuff. The wind changes direction and its like the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse roaring up and over the hills.

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

So it is a variation of the southwestern US... any pueblos in Prax?

I think Jeff has usually used parts of Utah and Colorado (possibly eastern Washington state) to highlight Prax. No pueblos though.

If you consider cliff heights along Zola Fel valley, you're looking at something not dissimilar to the Grand Canyon.

[g33k]

5 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

...

If you consider cliff heights along Zola Fel valley, you're looking at something not dissimilar to the Grand Canyon.

I thought that there were relatively-fewer of the deep/steep cliff-sided portions of the ZF valley.
Some, sure; mainly in the southern reaches of the valley.  Up near Pavis, it's closer to the Nile valley.

But even in the south, there are places where the Nomads can find ways for whole armies to relatively-quickly get down to the valley, or back up out of it.  IIRC the PC's in Borderlands follow a relatively shallow slope up onto the plains above, near Ronegarth.

And even where it IS tall cliffs, I had been envisioning it as (mostly) in the hundreds of feet tall, maybe a thousand-ish feet some places; not thousands of feet tall for most of the cliffs.

Have I just got the scale all wrong?

And if the southern reaches ARE that deeply-cut... does that mean southern Prax is actually a highland, relative to the lowlands of central Prax?

[Joerg]

I don't think that Prax had oaks - the Golden Age "savannah" was part of the Redwood Forest.

[jajagappa]

4 hours ago, g33k said:

And even where it IS tall cliffs, I had been envisioning it as (mostly) in the hundreds of feet tall, maybe a thousand-ish feet some places; not thousands of feet tall for most of the cliffs.

Look closely at the domain map around Eyes Rise. Western cliffs = 1000 feet; Eastern cliffs = 2700 feet (over several escarpments (which is like the climb from Plateau Point back out of the Grand Canyon).

[David Scott]

4 hours ago, Joerg said:

Redwood Forest

Redwood forests are not a monoculture, and have other trees.  

[Squaredeal Sten]

20 hours ago, g33k said:

The substantive presence of Oakfed in Prax -- not just as a historical feature, but "Oakfed Shaman" as a viable/playable PC, & Oakfed (the spirit) being a Big Deal -- speaks to there being substantive (if scattered) presence of trees in Prax.

YGMV

Yes, specifically along the Zola Fel River, according to Borderlands.

But I understand that Oakfed was "fed" with the oaks of Prax, so once upon a time in the godtime there were trees, when Prax was Genert's Garden.  But today. In the Third Age, there are very few, only at oases and in the Zola Fel valley.  And perhaps at marshes, though if I recall correctly the largest marsh in Prax is infested with Chaos which is bad for life in general.  

Edited March 14, 2023 by Squaredeal Sten
But...

[soltakss]

23 hours ago, g33k said:

The substantive presence of Oakfed in Prax -- not just as a historical feature, but "Oakfed Shaman" as a viable/playable PC, & Oakfed (the spirit) being a Big Deal -- speaks to there being substantive (if scattered) presence of trees in Prax.

There were, but they were fed to Oakfed to keep the lights on.

Nowadays, much of Prax is light scrubland, with bushes as well as grassland. 

11 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

So it is a variation of the southwestern US... any pueblos in Prax?

Of course. The Oasis Folk could live in pueblos, and some might be ancient abandoned ruins.

 

[Qizilbashwoman]

10 hours ago, jajagappa said:

I think Jeff has usually used parts of Utah and Colorado (possibly eastern Washington state) to highlight Prax. No pueblos though.

If you consider cliff heights along Zola Fel valley, you're looking at something not dissimilar to the Grand Canyon.

For me I assume it's a hybrid situation between the Pueblo areas and the southern Mediterranean: Zola Fel is a tiny Nile, the Oasis People have sycamore figs ("Gikuyu trees"), date palms, and olives.

The Siwa Oasis is a great example of how I think about the Oasis Peoples: it was home to a famous sacred site (Alexander visited the Oracle of Ammon there!), it is culturally very distinct from other peoples in the area, speaking a very divergent Berber language (thasiwith), and its name is from the Coptic (very late Egyptian) word for Oasis (wah) prefixed with a thasiwith abbreviation of an borrowed Egyptian word, sa, that meant "borderlands".

Now add in some adobe buildings in a pueblo style - and adobe is a Coptic loanword! - up on the cliffsides, and bob's yer uncle.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Qizilbashwoman

[Erol of Backford]

From another thread, are heardmen able to be taught to play simple musical interments?

Either way what sort of music if any would Morokanth have at a evening heardman BBQ?

Wouldn't Morokanth tend to be more on the side of herbivore? Also what vegetables are there in Prax that grow wild? I assume a larger variety along the Zol Fel banks, etc. but are there earthlike equivalents?

The same questions go for fruits as well...

[mfbrandi]

On 5/7/2023 at 2:57 PM, Erol of Backford said:

Also what vegetables are there in Prax that grow wild? I assume a larger variety along the Zol Fel banks, etc. but are there earthlike equivalents? The same questions go for fruits as well...

Taking up the Nile comparison:

Quote

A large variety of vegetables were grown, including onions, garlic, leeks, beans, lentils, peas, radishes, cabbage, cucumbers and lettuce. There were also fruits, such as dates, figs, pomegranates, melons and grapes — Canadian Museum of History

Edited May 8, 2023 by mfbrandi
added link