Mythras Imperative vs Core Rules and Classic Fantasy

[Zarameus]

Hello all! I was hoping someone might help me with some questions I had regarding Mythras.

First, I know that Mythras Imperative is a slightly abridged version of the rule book - but what exactly is missing? Like, what sorts of things am I missing out on by using Inperative rather than the primary rule book?

And regarding Classic Fantasy. I know the book requires Mythras - but how compatible is it with Mythras Imperative? Is there anything missing that would severely detract from a Classic Fantasy game?

[Claudius]

I have not read Mythras Imperative thoroughly, but as far as I know, it doesn't include any magic system.

You can download Mythras Imperative for free, on The Design Mechanism site.

[groovyclam]

The main rulebook has a bestiary of creatures ( all the standard fantasy ones and natural beasts ), more options for combat, 5 types of magic system and spell lists, various extra rules for dealing with non-combat problems ( e.g. acid, weather, sickness, encumbrance, visibility ), equipment lists with prices, a section on organisations your character might belong to ( guilds or cults ) and a chapter of GM guidance.

There's probably a few other twiddles as well but I think I've covered the main differences.

I haven't read my copy of Classic Fantasy yet but from a quick scan I think you could probably play it using just Mythras Imperative ( hopefully someone will correct me here if I'm wrong ). You wouldn't have stats for a few monsters though - Classic Fantasy does have a bestiary but doesn't cover some that are already in the main rulebook but not many really..

[threedeesix]

Thanks groovy.

You are correct, I believe you could run Classic Fantasy using only Imperative.

Like you said, Imperative has no magic system, but Classic Fantasy includes all the rules needed for its magic systems anyway. The only exception is that Classic Fantasy uses Mythras Folk Magic as Cantrips. The rules for cantrips are included in Classic Fantasy, just not the individual spells. It would be pretty easy to just follow the "classic" rule where cantrips are concerned and just say the a cantrip cannot cause the least bit of distraction, damage, discomfort, etc., until Mythras can be obtained.

Classic Fantasy does refer the reader to Mythras for a number of monsters, but itself contains more then enough to run a pretty lengthy campaign and still not meet them all.

I'm sure there are some instances where the Game Master would need to improvise at some point, but there are enough examples between Imperative and Classic Fantasy that it shouldn't be all that difficult. It reproduces all the equipment tables and adds quite a few new items, and cults and brotherhoods are detailed as guilds and orders, the primary method of character class advancement.

The Classic Fantasy miniatures combat system includes all of the rules necessary to conduct detailed combat, and between the two books, you should have everything needed to create a character.

Now, with all that said, you will want to pick up Mythras at some point for all the monsters it contains, many of them common staples of the classic fantasy genre. Plus the Game Mechanics chapter is loaded with information, like groovy said; acid, weather, sickness, encumbrance, etc.

I would also suggest Monster Island as well, for not only does it include an awesome campaign (anyone remember Basic D&D's "Isle of Dread"?), but almost half the book is made up of some pretty devious monsters. If I ever get to play in one of Pete's games, I'm bringing extra characters.

Anyway, hope that helps.

Rod

[lawrence.whitaker]

Quote

If I ever get to play in one of Pete's games, I'm bringing extra characters.

Don't bother. You can only cry so much.

[groovyclam]

Monster Island is a great supplement.

And for those that aren't aware, member threedeesix is the author of Classic Fantasy.

Edited August 29, 2016 by groovyclam

[Zarameus]

Well, I was hoping I could save a bit of money, but it sounds like I'm eventually gonna want to get the whole book anyway. May as well go for broke and just get it out of the way then

Thank you all for the quick replies on the matter, I really appreciate it!

I have one more question that I just thought up. I know Mythras and BRP are technically different systems - but I also know the core mechanics are fairly similar. At least that's what I've come to understand. So my question is how compatible would Mythras, and by extension Classic Fantasy, be with Call of Cthulhu's Malleus Monstrorum? I only ask because there's a lot of potentially fun creatures in there that might add some good flavor to a traditional fantasy setting.

[Questbird]

27 minutes ago, Zarameus said:

I have one more question that I just thought up. I know Mythras and BRP are technically different systems - but I also know the core mechanics are fairly similar. At least that's what I've come to understand. So my question is how compatible would Mythras, and by extension Classic Fantasy, be with Call of Cthulhu's Malleus Monstrorum? I only ask because there's a lot of potentially fun creatures in there that might add some good flavor to a traditional fantasy setting.

The Malleus Monstrorum monsters don't have hit locations as I remember, but they are otherwise broadly compatible. I had the same idea too once, when monster supplements for BRP were hard to come by. However, the Cthulhu monsters are pretty tough except for the most minor of servitor races. Keep in mind they can change the tone of a fantasy game (I didn't really end up using them myself). These sort of things appear in swords and sorcery games. They can be beaten in a Conan type game; not in the Clark Ashton Smith kind.

[Zarameus]

6 minutes ago, Questbird said:

The Malleus Monstrorum monsters don't have hit locations as I remember, but they are otherwise broadly compatible. I had the same idea too once, when monster supplements for BRP were hard to come by. However, the Cthulhu monsters are pretty tough except for the most minor of servitor races. Keep in mind they can change the tone of a fantasy game (I didn't really end up using them myself). These sort of things appear in swords and sorcery games. They can be beaten in a Conan type game; not in the Clark Ashton Smith kind.

So I'm thinking its best used as a sort of template if there's something in there I really want to use. I suppose it'll depend on just what sort of game I want to run, but they may need to be tinkered with a little just to make sure things don't get too out of hand. Thank you for the insight!

[hkokko]

You might also take a look at the Encounter Generator in helping to create the enemies. If a template for an enemy does not exist - see the final link. 

https://notesfrompavis.wordpress.com/2014/05/13/rq6-encounter-tool-feature-recap-for-busy-gms/

https://notesfrompavis.wordpress.com/2015/06/02/so-you-want-to-generate-rq-encounters-for-rq6-but-do-not-want-them-to-be-in-glorantha/

https://notesfrompavis.wordpress.com/2015/01/25/rq-encounter-tool-101-generating-encounters-guide/

https://notesfrompavis.wordpress.com/2015/02/01/rq-encounter-tool-101-part-2-creating-npcs-and-parties/

 

[Prime Evil]

12 hours ago, lawrence.whitaker said:

Don't bother. You can only cry so much.

Can you make a new character out of the dismembered body parts of the last four?

[lawrence.whitaker]

Quote

Can you make a new character out of the dismembered body parts of the last four?

No, Pete does that and uses it to torture and horrify any surviving PCs.

[threedeesix]

3 hours ago, Prime Evil said:

Can you make a new character out of the dismembered body parts of the last four?

You can when the Classic Fantasy Unearthed Companion releases, its called a Flesh Golem. Just stay away from any parts labeled "Abby Normal".

Rod

[rsanford]

Rod,

Are you serious about doing a Classic Fantasy Unearthed Companion cause that would be cool!

[Zarameus]

11 hours ago, hkokko said:

You might also take a look at the Encounter Generator in helping to create the enemies. If a template for an enemy does not exist - see the final link. 

https://notesfrompavis.wordpress.com/2014/05/13/rq6-encounter-tool-feature-recap-for-busy-gms/

https://notesfrompavis.wordpress.com/2015/06/02/so-you-want-to-generate-rq-encounters-for-rq6-but-do-not-want-them-to-be-in-glorantha/

https://notesfrompavis.wordpress.com/2015/01/25/rq-encounter-tool-101-generating-encounters-guide/

https://notesfrompavis.wordpress.com/2015/02/01/rq-encounter-tool-101-part-2-creating-npcs-and-parties/

 

These are great, thank you for the resources! I'll have to bookmark these for when things get underway.

37 minutes ago, threedeesix said:

You can when the Classic Fantasy Unearthed Companion releases, its called a Flesh Golem. Just stay away from any parts labeled "Abby Normal".

Rod

Oh, I'm very interested in the sound of that. If there really is going to be a companion, what can you tell us about it?

[threedeesix]

2 hours ago, rsanford said:

Rod,

Are you serious about doing a Classic Fantasy Unearthed Companion cause that would be cool!

 

1 hour ago, Zarameus said:

Oh, I'm very interested in the sound of that. If there really is going to be a companion, what can you tell us about it?

Absolutely. Classic Fantasy is too large to fit in a single book. The following is from the last page of Classic Fantasy:

Classic Fantasy Unearthed Companion

Throughout this book, references have been made to the Classic Fantasy Unearthed Companion. While Classic Fantasy itself is packed
with content, there is so much more on the way, for a second volume has been excavated, and preliminary translations hint at pages and pages
of new information, including

• More spells. There was just no way to fit all the spells useful to a Classic Fantasy campaign in this first volume, and the Unearthed Companion packs even more. This includes awe inspiring arcane and divine magics of ranks 4 and 5.
• More magic items. Like spells, Classic Fantasy limited the quantity and type of magic items to those suitable for characters of ranks 1 to 3. The Unearthed Companion promises many, many, more, including rank 4 and 5 items, and unique and powerful artifacts.
• More monsters! While this book only scratches the surface with regards to the strange and fantastic beasts found in the worlds of Classic Fantasy, the Unearthed Companion contains many more. Within its pages can be found deadly monsters, such as the shamble and the terrifying orb tyrant. Also included are rules for psychic powers and the horrible creatures that use them, like the mind slayer and the intellect feeder.

While in the World of Greymoor, the capability to enchant magic items is relegated to a time long past, the Unearthed Companion contains a chapter devoted to alchemy. This includes simple rules to create any of the potions found in this book, as well as a few new formulas yet waiting to be discovered by the player characters themselves.

The Classic Fantasy core rules concentrates on subterranean adventuring in dungeons and cave networks, utilizing the rules found in Mythras to get the characters to the place of adventure, however the Unearthed Companion includes rules for overland travel in the form of the Hex Crawl. This includes rules for moving the party on a hex-based world map, random encounters based on terrain type, and detailed rules for survival, including hunting and foraging.

Scribes and sages are working even as we speak to translate the book into the common tongue. With the blessings of the Gods of Greymoor, look for it sometime late 2017 or early 2018.

Due to the nature of the forgotten language used in the original Unearthed Companion, this is a best guess example of what will be included in the finished translation. However, as even more is translated, the possibility exists for other compilations at a later date, dependent of course on how the first is received.

Rod

[Guest Vile Traveller]

It's almost as if you were creating an Expert Companion to the Basic rules!

[Verderer]

I just got my hands on Mythras rulebook, and having read CF FIRST, I was struck how different approaches these two books take on movement? CF drops Move altogether as an independent combat action, and instead includes certain 'gaits' to each combat action, so you can move little or lot depending which one you choose.

Mythras, on the other hand, seems to take fairly minimalistic and traditional approach to movement, it's very light on rules at this point, I feel. I was kinda surprised at this after reading CF, and I am curious about these two variant approaches. Did you Rod end up with this new system of moving due to the miniature gaming aspect of your rules, or did you just want to handle Movement differently? I am not really sure which way I will adopt, I am kinda used to the separate action method from RQII/Legend, but on the other hand, the CF one seems interesting, and it might make you feel like movement was happening at the same time as other actions, as it does in real life? But I'd have to test in a game or two. Maybe even discuss this with my players...

[threedeesix]

Hi Verderer.

In the original RQ6 version, there were basic rules for using miniatures in the Appendix of the book. I took those rules, including separating Move from Actions, and expanded upon them. Like everything else in d100 gaming, everything is pretty modular. It should be pretty easy to pick and choose elements of both systems to find the best fit for your group.

Enjoy.

Rod

[Verderer]

Oh I see, it seems the appendix was dropped from Mythras then? It's hard to say how the alternate movement affects combat, as there are quite few new combat special effects that I am not familiar with yet.

I am beginning to see some interesting differences to Legend/RQII as I read on Mythras. And some quite obvious ones, like 'heroic abilities' have been dropped out, and luck points work a bit differently in that they seem to regenerate for the next game session? I think I'd like to retain heroic abilities for my pirate campaign at least. But for CF campaign they might not be required since you get a load of professional traits and whatnot for the characters anyways.

[Mankcam]

I don't have Mythras, but I do have RQ6 and apparently Mythras is almost the same thing. The Heroic Abilities from MRQ2/Legend are gone, but there are Gifts which can cover some of those abilities.

There is no firm structure regarding how you get Gifts, but I feel these tend to be Divine Gifts from the Gods, or Preternatural Abilities granted by Pacts with otherworld beings etc. I guess the function is similar in that you can get Heroic Ability style benefits, although these are typically not things you would start beginning characters with, and many player-characters may not even attain them.

Have the Gifts been kept in Mythras?

If you are playing a pulpy game like Pirates, you are probably just better off with keeping Pirates Of Legend as it is, you will need all those Heroic Abilities to pull off Jack Sparrow.

But if Mythras is anything like RQ6, then you don't really miss not having those Heroic Abilites, and the core rules feels a little 'cleaner' without them actually. Pretty much most of them can be covered narratively by high skill scores in any case. Also the Combat Style Traits and Combat Options pretty much cover things reasonably well. 

I'm slowly getting thru Mythras: Classic Fantasy, and I see you get Class Abilities based on your archetype, so these would also pretty much replace Heroic Abilities for these rules, tailored specifically to the character Class. Very old school classic fantasy, like the cover says 

Edited September 26, 2016 by Mankcam

[Verderer]

Yes, gifts are listed on page 202 of the Mythras rulebook.

I agree that heroic abilites fit right in with a swashbuckling adventure, as do Vices which also use & grant hero points. So for the Pirates campaign I will retain the Legend/RQII system way of using these points.