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Egregious munchkinnery!


PhilHibbs

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4 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

(well, you could always get yourself a Chaos trait... would you allow a DI to choose your own? 馃ぃ馃ぃ馃ぃ)

According to Chaos Gift (RQG 322), you can DI when casting it to make a choice on the Chaos Feature table. I don't聽think聽you can combine this with Extension since Chaos Gift's duration is "Duration (variable)" rather than "Temporal", but if you could, for up to a year you could get:

  • +3D6 POW
  • +4D6 DEX, STR, CON, or SIZ
  • 12-pt armor skin
  • Absorb spells or reflect spells up to 2D6 intensity (pick one)
  • Free Demoralize, Befuddle, or hypnotic effects
  • Regen 2D6-5 HP in聽each聽hit location every round, min 1
  • Or, I suppose, for extra munchkin points, you could pick #95 "Roll twice." and maybe get to choose twice? Or even just get two rolls. But I'm pretty sure any GM worth their salt would smack a player trying that.

Of course this isn't that good a munchkin trick, since you have to already be a Chief or High Priest of the Seven Mothers...

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2 hours ago, Crel said:

According to Chaos Gift (RQG 322), you can DI when casting it to make a choice on the Chaos Feature table. I don't聽think聽you can combine this with Extension since Chaos Gift's duration is "Duration (variable)" rather than "Temporal", but if you could, for up to a year you could get:

  • +3D6 POW
  • +4D6 DEX, STR, CON, or SIZ
  • 12-pt armor skin
  • Absorb spells or reflect spells up to 2D6 intensity (pick one)
  • Free Demoralize, Befuddle, or hypnotic effects
  • Regen 2D6-5 HP in聽each聽hit location every round, min 1
  • Or, I suppose, for extra munchkin points, you could pick #95 "Roll twice." and maybe get to choose twice? Or even just get two rolls. But I'm pretty sure any GM worth their salt would smack a player trying that.

Of course this isn't that good a munchkin trick, since you have to already be a Chief or High Priest of the Seven Mothers...

But, it's only temporary :( (I don't recall seeing the DI bit in previous versions.. but, maybe that's my faded memory...).

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Your Humakti sacrifices 2 extra POW to have a season-long Sword Trance right at the start. Take the increased sword HP gift and you Parry at 200+% with an 18hp sword. Give your second weapon skill to left-handed sword, and you have probably close to (or over) 200% to hit with 2 attacks per turn (and you can still Parry normally).

Any melee opponent will die very quickly to this brand new adventurer.聽

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13 hours ago, gochie said:

Your Humakti sacrifices 2 extra POW to have a season-long Sword Trance right at the start. Take the increased sword HP gift and you Parry at 200+% with an 18hp sword. Give your second weapon skill to left-handed sword, and you have probably close to (or over) 200% to hit with 2 attacks per turn (and you can still Parry normally).

Any melee opponent will die very quickly to this brand new adventurer.聽

Sorry, I'm confused... where's all this from? (I get Sword Trance is 10% per MP, and it's a 1 RP spell... I don't get teh "2 extra PW to have a Season-long ...". And I'm not seeing the great benefit of the +50% HP to a sword)

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4 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Sorry, I'm confused... where's all this from? (I get Sword Trance is 10% per MP, and it's a 1 RP spell... I don't get teh "2 extra PW to have a Season-long ...". And I'm not seeing the great benefit of the +50% HP to a sword)

You start an adventurer with an automatic 3 Rune Points. You sacrifice for 2 more and cast Sword Trance (1) with Extension 4 (lasts a full season), and pump it with as much mp as you can (let's say 10mp for +100% with any sword).

Dual wielding swords, which grants you 2 attacks per round, means you survive by parrying with one of your swords. So you take the +50% sword HP for one (or both) of your swords for an awesome 18 damage block at 200ish% chance of success. At 200%, you could effectively block 6 attacks before your Parry chance drops to 100%.

Also, make sure you cast a countermagic or a cheap protective spell everytime you go into battle so Sword Trance doesn't get dispelled first, and you should be fairly safe from dispels.聽

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2 minutes ago, gochie said:

You start an adventurer with an automatic 3 Rune Points. You sacrifice for 2 more and cast Sword Trance (1) with Extension 4 (lasts a full season), and pump it with as much mp as you can (let's say 10mp for +100% with any sword).

Dual wielding swords, which grants you 2 attacks per round, means you survive by parrying with one of your swords. So you take the +50% sword HP for one (or both) of your swords for an awesome 18 damage block at 200ish% chance of success. At 200%, you could effectively block 6 attacks before your Parry chance drops to 100%.

Also, make sure you cast a countermagic or a cheap protective spell everytime you go into battle so Sword Trance doesn't get dispelled first, and you should be fairly safe from dispels.聽

Ah, I didn't add the starting 3RPs to your extra 2 for Extension.... My bad!

However, in saying that... If I was GM, I'd be loathe to give the bonus to both hands for the 1 spell. 1 sword - sure! 2...??? (after all, Bladesharp, which is what this is similar to, is only for 1 sword). I remember the days of Right Hand/Left Hand skills...

I do get the added HP for the sword - just not sure it's worth it, that's all... But that just might be me.

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11 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

I do get the added HP for the sword - just not sure it's worth it, that's all... But that just might be me.

I think it is, especially if you gift the sword to do double damage, you do not want to break that thing. Combined with the "finely made weapon" +1HP that gets a broadsword to 20, so it can take a 60HP critical before it breaks completely.

The problem with Sword Trance Extension is, I fully expect most GMs to rule that it rather gets in the way of doing anything that isn't sword-related. Although it doesn't say so, it is a trance.

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26 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Ah, I didn't add the starting 3RPs to your extra 2 for Extension.... My bad!

However, in saying that... If I was GM, I'd be loathe to give the bonus to both hands for the 1 spell. 1 sword - sure! 2...??? (after all, Bladesharp, which is what this is similar to, is only for 1 sword). I remember the days of Right Hand/Left Hand skills...

I do get the added HP for the sword - just not sure it's worth it, that's all... But that just might be me.

The difference is the spell alters the adventurer, not the weapon, and boosts the Sword skill - ie. any and all sword skills.

For 1 guease, having no shield, and an amazing chance to parry, +sword HP is the best gift to get imo.

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3 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

The problem with Sword Trance Extension is, I fully expect most GMs to rule that it rather gets in the way of doing anything that isn't sword-related. Although it doesn't say so, it is a trance.

Exactly how I'd apply it.聽 And the lack of food/water/sleep while in the trance could well turn your happy-go-lucky Humakti into an undead sword-wielding monster which the other Humakti have to hunt down.聽鈽狅笍

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3 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

... The problem with Sword Trance Extension is, I fully expect most GMs to rule that it rather gets in the way of doing anything that isn't sword-related. Although it doesn't say so, it is a trance.

Except it DOESN'T say so.

Arrow Trance does say so, Sword & Axe "trances" do not.

Under the RAW, there explicitly IS NO "trance" effect with the melee versions of the spell.

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2 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Implicitly, pretty much the dictionary definition of implicit.

I agree that a "trance" is implied by the names of those spells.

But the explicit overrides the implicit, and when one spell explicitly describes a multiplicity of "trance" effects, and another spell does NOT... I find no other reading than that the trance-free spell is ... well ... Trance-free.

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Just now, g33k said:

But the explicit overrides the implicit, and when one spell explicitly describes a multiplicity of "trance" effects, and another spell does NOT... I find no other reading than that the trance-free spell is ... well ... Trance-free.

I know it's an "appeal to authority" but Jeff agrees. So it's really just an omission.

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1 hour ago, g33k said:

Under the RAW, there explicitly IS NO "trance" effect with the melee versions of the spell.

I'd just like to note that IMHO this is entirely good form in a Munchkin thread. :D聽But, I do agree that most GMs would likely impose at least some species of penalty on Extension'd Humakti...

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With the current generation rules it is a simple matter to get your character within spitting distance of Rune levels during generation. About the only things that will hold you up are the POW and CHA requirements, which are dependent on how well you rolled your 'toon.

I suppose this was designed to get the players 'Hero Wars ready' in a much quicker fashion, but old RQ 2 Pavis rubble-rat in me sort of misses that desperate struggle to get your skills up to Rune examination level, all the while begrudging every POW point sacrificed and/or lost in spirit combat 馃槑

I'm just hoping that the upcoming scenarios are as epic as the RQG starting character generation implies they'll be.

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On p.53, Determining Characteristics, it states that "if the total [of your characteristics] is 92 or less, you may allot up to 3 more points to your adventurer's characteristics, as desired." On averages, characteristics result in 81 points. So, on average rolls you can get up to +5 points in a single characteristic when including your primary Elemental Rune affinity, to a max of 21. Thus, on a varied array which meets averages, any single characteristic of 16+ can become maxed at adventurer creation.

This mostly seems relevant for POW, CON, and sometimes INT.

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6 minutes ago, Crel said:

On p.53, Determining Characteristics, it states that "if the total [of your characteristics] is 92 or less, you may allot up to 3 more points to your adventurer's characteristics, as desired." On averages, characteristics result in 81 points. So, on average rolls you can get up to +5 points in a single characteristic when including your primary Elemental Rune affinity, to a max of 21. Thus, on a varied array which meets averages, any single characteristic of 16+ can become maxed at adventurer creation.

This mostly seems relevant for POW, CON, and sometimes INT.

Ooh, I would have thought that those points would be limited to 18... does it really not say that?聽

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1 minute ago, PhilHibbs said:

Ooh, I would have thought that those points would be limited to 18... does it really not say that?聽

Curse my selective pedantry! You're right. you can go up to 18 with the bonus points, and then the +2 from Rune Modifier is the next step. So total of 20, not 21, on this method. But, a skill can grow from 15 instead of 16.

Edited by Crel
Expansion.

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A starting adventurer can choose spirit magic from any associated cult for their starting 5 points. Chalana Arroy is an associated cult of Eurmal. Therefore, Tricksters can have Sleep (better not ask how they learned it...).

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41 minutes ago, Crel said:

A starting adventurer can choose spirit magic from any associated cult for their starting 5 points. Chalana Arroy is an associated cult of Eurmal. Therefore, Tricksters can have Sleep (better not ask how they learned it...).

That's definitely an omission, Chalana Arroy never taught Sleep to non CA cultists.

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1 hour ago, Crel said:

A starting adventurer can choose spirit magic from any associated cult for their starting 5 points. Chalana Arroy is an associated cult of Eurmal. Therefore, Tricksters can have Sleep (better not ask how they learned it...).

Would you be so kind as to give us a page number citation聽of us to scurry after. I gotta check on this but if you were already there.... Lotta pages to leaf through.

cheers

... remember, with a TARDIS, one is never late for breakfast!

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22 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Would you be so kind as to give us a page number citation聽of us to scurry after. I gotta check on this but if you were already there.... Lotta pages to leaf through.

cheers

P.73 "Cult Spirit Magic:聽If your cult teaches spirit magic, choose 5 points of cult spirit magic. The spirit magic spells taught by the cult are listed. An initiate can start with spirit magic spells taught by an associated cult."

On p.75, Chalana Arroy, Issaries, Lhankor Mhy and Orlanth are listed as Eurmal's Associated Cults. On p.74, Sleep is listed as a 3-pt cult spirit magic spell. Therefore, RAW, Eurmali Tricksters can begin play knowing Sleep as 3 of their 5 points of cult spirit magic.

Additionally, I currently see nothing in Chalana Arroy's longer writeup (on p.290) which directly contradicts this reading,聽although@PhilHibbs's comment is probably accurate.

I guess it's worth pointing out that聽any聽of the cults noting CA as associated can get access at start of play to Sleep. Eurmal just stuck out in particular because Tricksters. And, I suppose any other cult would have some notion of "use this spell nicely, or else CA's gonna be pissed" whereas Tricksters are Tricksters. Other cults include Ernalda, Issaries, Lhankor Mhy, Orlanth, Storm Bull and Yelm.

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  • PhilHibbs changed the title to Egregious munchkinnery!

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