Strike Rank confusion

[Kloster]

20 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Yes it did. Generally speaking the character with the shorter weapon couldn't strike the one with the longer weapon until he successfully closed. Then the character with the longer weapon couldn't strike until he backed away.

It was more complicated: Shorter weapons were striking later, but once you close in, the longer weapon had to wait until the shortest weapon has attacked to be able to strike. This is something we often used,

18 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

RQG has not reintroduced this rule yet. Hopefully it will in a future supplement.

Unlikely, because it used the Move/SR rule. In RQG, the move is in 1 shot, not per SR.

[Stephen L]

4 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

(really guy and gals, no likes for that)

A good point, well made.

Though I have done my bit to rectify, I fear it is too little, too late, for we seem to have scared the good Adaras away, with some very complicated e-mails on such a simple subject!

[g33k]

3 hours ago, Psullie said:

... any combination that results is SR 0 is treated as SR 1 ...

Yeah, this.

SR 0 "doesn't exist," as a moment wherein actions can occur.  Same for SR's of 13+ .

Terms like "DEX SR 0" are maybe a bit misleading, in that they seem to imply the existence of "SR 0," but no:  they just mean someone who's so quick, you never see their reaction-time as a perceptible thing (unless you, too are in that rarified "DEX SR 0" territory); they do not add to your SR.  That's all.

 

Edited October 10, 2020 by g33k

[DreadDomain]

3 hours ago, Kloster said:

Unlikely, because it used the Move/SR rule. In RQG, the move is in 1 shot, not per SR.

Sure but abstracting the move by taking an extra 1 SR is doable. Even if mechanically movement is tallied before we start counting SRs up, everything happens at the same time.

In any case, I was less refering to re-introducing the exact same mechanic but more alluding to reintroducing the option of closing and reopening the range. In fact, given how RQG works, I'd rather use another mechanic. Without thinking too much about it (so they may be flawed), a few options could be:

a) On a special (or better) attack or defense, a character can choose to close (or reopen the distance) instead of the usual benefit (if a critical, downgrade to special)

b) Stealing a page from Aim, a combattant declaring they are attempting to close (or reopen the distance) delay their attack to SR12 and roll their skill at half value

c) On a succesful parry against a failed attack, a combattant close (or reopen the distance) instead of damaging the attacking weapon

d) A combination of a), b) and c) are in play.

[DreadDomain]

10 hours ago, Arcadiagt5 said:

I was simplifying. The options are spelled out in full on RQG p195 and essentially boil down to:

• Spend a full round on pure defence, after which you're considered disengaged and can move away  at the end of the round or on SR6 if you're mounted and your opponent isn't. Can't be done at all if you're on foot & the opponent you're trying to disengage from is mounted. 
• Succeed in a Knockback attack, and move away after they're knocked back or down. Good luck. 
• Just move away anyway. This triggers the attack of opportunity which can't be parried or dodged. How good is your armour? 

Ah, for a moment I thought you were talking about something along the lines of Opportunity Melee (RQ3 Players Book p.59).

Correct me if I am wrong but even the last bullet does not really "trigger an attack of opportunity". It is simply that if your opponent tries to attack you, you cannot defend (it is not giving anyone an extra attack). Correct?

[Akhôrahil]

10 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

Ah, for a moment I thought you were talking about something along the lines of Opportunity Melee (RQ3 Players Book p.59).

Correct me if I am wrong but even the last bullet does not really "trigger an attack of opportunity". It is simply that if your opponent tries to attack you, you cannot defend (it is not giving anyone an extra attack). Correct?

Unclear - the phrasing suggests a free attack on top of everything else, but this doesn’t quite make sense within the system.

[Kloster]

13 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

Sure but abstracting the move by taking an extra 1 SR is doable. Even if mechanically movement is tallied before we start counting SRs up, everything happens at the same time.

In any case, I was less refering to re-introducing the exact same mechanic but more alluding to reintroducing the option of closing and reopening the range. In fact, given how RQG works, I'd rather use another mechanic. Without thinking too much about it (so they may be flawed), a few options could be:

a) On a special (or better) attack or defense, a character can choose to close (or reopen the distance) instead of the usual benefit (if a critical, downgrade to special)

b) Stealing a page from Aim, a combattant declaring they are attempting to close (or reopen the distance) delay their attack to SR12 and roll their skill at half value

c) On a succesful parry against a failed attack, a combattant close (or reopen the distance) instead of damaging the attacking weapon

d) A combination of a), b) and c) are in play.

I went the other way. Wanting to use all those combat options, I reverted to RQ3 combat. Those options were, for us:

1/ what made the combats more tactical and interesting.

2/ what avoided us the /attack/parry until a critical occurs for high level.

[Mechashef]

On ‎10‎/‎10‎/‎2020 at 11:07 PM, Runeblogger said:

I'd like to throw in this example of play that Trotsky did and I corrected a little bit:

https://elruneblog.blogspot.com/2020/09/playing-runequest-glorantha-den-of.html    👈

It could be useful for @Adaras and others to clear some things up. (But if you spot any misinterpretations, please let me know.)

My understanding of SR is probably at fault here, but this example makes no sense to me.

 

Quote

Balgan had already prepared his shield and drawn one of his two javelins from his back. His javelin would resolve on SR 4,

Why?  The character sheet shows a SR for Javelin (Thrown) as 2.

 

Quote

this would free his hand to cast Protection 1 on himself using the focus on the back of his shield. It would take 5 SR to prepare the spell. The spell would take 3 SR to cast

Shouldn't that be 2 SR to Cast (2 for DEX SR plus 1 for the MP cost of the spell, minus 1 for the first MP)?

 

Quote

 Saroangan who had by now got her armour back on, had her composite bow ready – she would let loose arrows on SR 2 and SR 9.

Saroangan has a SR of 1 with her bow.  Doesn't that mean she shoots on SR 1 then SR 7?

 

Quote

Korig would cast Disruption 1 at the creature on SR 4.

Similar to Balgan's Protection 1, shouldn't this be SR 3 (3 for DEX SR plus 1 for spell's MP then minus 1 for the 1st MP)?

 

Quote

Then get his shield from his back which would take 10 SR.

Regardless of whether the Protection is cast on SR 3 or 4, adding another 10 SR brings the total to more than 12.  Doesn't this mean that Korig can't unlimber his shield this round?

 

I haven't read much further yet.

 

And are the armour values for Balgan and Korig mismatched with what their armour is stated to be?

 

Edit:  Added Korig's Shield bit.

Edited October 11, 2020 by Mechashef

[Runeblogger]

1 hour ago, Mechashef said:

My understanding of SR is probably at fault here, but this example makes no sense to me.

I think you are right on each of the mistakes you point out.   #^_^#    Thanks a lot! I'll edit all that ASAP. 

1 hour ago, Mechashef said:

Regardless of whether the Protection is cast on SR 3 or 4, adding another 10 SR brings the total to more than 12.  Doesn't this mean that Korig can't unlimber his shield this round?

According to the rules as written yes, but it makes no sense to me that you can spend more than 12 SR preparing a spell but you cannot do the same with any other action that takes longer than 12 SR, so I interpret that you can.  😋

1 hour ago, Mechashef said:

And are the armour values for Balgan and Korig mismatched with what their armour is stated to be?

Right, but the character sheets were done by someone else on the Cradle of Heroes's website, so I can't correct that.

[Redjac]

Ok, thanks.

[Mechashef]

If an adventurer has a Dex SR of 2, then by my understanding, assuming they start with their bow and an arrow prepared they can fire in the first round like this:

• 1st shot on SR 2
• 5 SRs to reload (now SR 7)
• 2nd shot on SR 9

That does not leave enough SRs to reload so by my interpretation of the RAW, round 2 would go like this

• 5 SRs to reload
• Shoot on  SR 7
• 5 SRs to reload
• No second shot

Every odd round they would get two shots and every even round they would only get one shot.

 

Is my interpretation of the RAW correct?

If so, do people actually play it that way or just play every round like the first one (with two shots, one on SR 2 and one on SR 9)?

 

Thanks

 

 

[DreadDomain]

49 minutes ago, Mechashef said:

Is my interpretation of the RAW correct?

This is also my understanding.

[DreadDomain]

20 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Unclear - the phrasing suggests a free attack on top of everything else, but this doesn’t quite make sense within the system.

Hmmm... you are correct. I interpreted it one way but it could also be interpreted as "an extra attack".  I don't believe it is the case but it certainly could be. The Q&A seems to be silent on this.

[Bill the barbarian]

57 minutes ago, Mechashef said:

Is my interpretation of the RAW correct?

If so, do people actually play it that way or just play every round like the first one (with two shots, one on SR 2 and one on SR 9)?

I believe not only is your interpretation correct but so is your second guess of how people tend to play the rule correct.

[DreadDomain]

18 hours ago, Kloster said:

I went the other way. Wanting to use all those combat options, I reverted to RQ3 combat. Those options were, for us:

1/ what made the combats more tactical and interesting.

2/ what avoided us the /attack/parry until a critical occurs for high level.

Something I also considered. However, taking into account the additions in Rune Fixes, there are not a lot of tactical options that are still out of RQG. Closing is an obvious omission and another one I can think of is unintentional knockback (that I would only also on crushing weapons). Of the top of my head' I can't think of any other significant omissions and add special damage per type of weapon and multiple defenses (which I like).

Unless my memory fails me and more is missing.

[DreadDomain]

39 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

I believe not only is your interpretation correct but so is your second guess of how people tend to play the rule correct.

Well, I've never played that way

[Kloster]

10 minutes ago, DreadDomain said:

and add special damage per type of weapon and multiple defenses (which I like).

Of course. Same for me.

[Mechashef]

So (and I'm sure this has been described before), a Dex of 19 (or greater) is quite scary if combined with low level Multimissile (if that spell is considered to be like Bladesharp and other weapon enhancing spells where the SR requirements is only the extra SR needed to cast the spell).

The SR requirements for casting Multimissile (1) for a Dex 19+ adventurer is 0 (Dex SR of 0, plus 1 for the 1 MP and minus 1 for the 1st MP)

The SR requirements for casting Multimissile (2) for a Dex 19+ adventurer is 1 (Dex SR of 0, plus 2 for the 2 MP and minus 1 for the 1st MP)

 

With a Dex of 19, round 1 could look like this:

• SR 1 - (actually SR 0 but my understanding is the first SR of a round is 1, so the SR 0 becomes SR 1).  Multimissile (1) requires zero extra SRs so use it, resulting in two arrows fired on this SR
• SR 6  - Bow is reloaded.  Shoot again, also using Multimissile (1) resulting in two arrows being fired
• SR 11 - Bow is Reloaded.  Start casting Multimissile (2) which will take one additional SR
• SR 12 - Shoot again with Multimissile (2) resulting in 3 arrows being fired.

7 Arrows fired in the round, 3 real ones and 4 magic ones.

 

If the RAW are followed, in subsequent rounds:

• SR 5 - Bow is reloaded.  Start casting Multimisile (2)
• SR 6 - Shoot using Multimissile (2) resulting in 3 arrows being fired
• SR  11 - Bow is reloaded.  Start casting Multimisile (2)
• SR 12 - Shoot using Multimissile (2) resulting in 3 arrows being fired

6 Arrows fired in the round, 2 real ones and 4 magic ones.

 

Does this work, or have I misunderstood the rules?

 

 

[Mechashef]

55 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

… but so is your second guess of how people tend to play the rule correct.

Sorry, I can be quite dense at times.

Were you stating that people do play it RAW?

Or people do not play RAW and thus play every round like the first one?

 

Thanks again

 

[DreadDomain]

6 minutes ago, Mechashef said:

Sorry, I can be quite dense at times.

Were you stating that people do play it RAW?

Or people do not play RAW and thus play every round like the first one?

 

Thanks again

 

I think Bill meant that people tend to just play every round like the first one but that is not how we ever played before so I say the Barbarian is WRONG, WRONG I SAY!!... or maybe he is right...

[Atgxtg]

On 10/10/2020 at 1:04 PM, Kloster said:

It was more complicated: Shorter weapons were striking later, but once you close in, the longer weapon had to wait until the shortest weapon has attacked to be able to strike.

Yeah, I sort of glossed over it.

On 10/10/2020 at 1:04 PM, Kloster said:

Unlikely, because it used the Move/SR rule. In RQG, the move is in 1 shot, not per SR.

I agree, although they might come up with an alternative. RQG went in a  different direction that RQ3.

[Mugen]

On 10/10/2020 at 11:08 PM, DreadDomain said:

In any case, I was less refering to re-introducing the exact same mechanic but more alluding to reintroducing the option of closing and reopening the range. In fact, given how RQG works, I'd rather use another mechanic. Without thinking too much about it (so they may be flawed), a few options could be:

a) On a special (or better) attack or defense, a character can choose to close (or reopen the distance) instead of the usual benefit (if a critical, downgrade to special)

But wouldn't it be very similar to how criticals and special effects work in Mythras, only a little more clumsy?

[DreadDomain]

53 minutes ago, Mugen said:

But wouldn't it be very similar to how criticals and special effects work in Mythras, only a little more clumsy?

If by that you mean having effects on specials and critical that can be something other than "do more damage", than yes, I suppose. Not sure why it would be clumsier than how it works in Mythras (we were already doing that as a HR back in the good old RQ3 days) . If having options on specials/criticals is potentially confusing or time consuming for players, than the two other options (successful Parry/failed Attack or attack at half % at SR 12)  could work better.

Another (easier?) option could be for a fighter to spend a MR successfully defending against the longer weapon fighter to slip inside their defense (basically using the Retreating rule but to close the distance instead).

To be honest, what I like about using the "Aim" mechanic and the Disengage mechanic is that it uses already existing mechanics and combining both gives both an offensive and defensive way to achieve a closing maneuver.

Edited October 12, 2020 by DreadDomain

[Mechashef]

3 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

I think Bill meant that people tend to just play every round like the first one but that is not how we ever played before so I say the Barbarian is WRONG, WRONG I SAY!!... or maybe he is right...

I've always played it with every round being like the first, even to the extent of writing the SRs on the character sheets (such as 2,9), but have gradually been trying to bring my game closer to the RAW instead of being a hybrid of remembered RQ2 & 3 rules plus misread RQG rules.

 

 

[Arcadiagt5]

3 hours ago, Mechashef said:

 

Does this work, or have I misunderstood the rules?

Yes, I think there’s a number of misunderstandings here, specifically that unless the GM explicitly rules otherwise actions are sequential not parallel. e.g I have allowed players to pull weapons while moving. There’s also the flat 5SR requirement for the 2nd spirit magic in a round.

But in this example:

• SR1 = Cast Multimissile-1
• SR2 = Shoot
• SR7 = Reload
• SR12 = Cast second Multimissile-1 (a second spirit magic in the same turn always costs +5 SRs to mentally refocus, and Multimissile-2 would blow the round limit by adding an extra SR).

The second round would look like:

• SR1 = Shoot
• SR6 = Reload
• SR7 = Multimissile (which only takes 1SR this time because it’s the first spell of the round)
• SR8 = Shoot leaving not enough time to reload or cast again.

At which point rd 3 starts with neither the bow loaded or multimissile on the arrow.