Jump to content

Pavis Priesthood turnover since 1610


Recommended Posts

I am going to be starting a game soon where the characters are from Real City.  So the focus is more on what is going on in the Rubble and the Pavis cult than what is going in in Prax.  Luckily I have access to Ian Thomson's excellent material (full speed ahead and damn the canon!) as well as the official stuff.

in Pavs:GtA (page 368) it is stated: "At the beginning of the Lunar Occupation, there were five Priests of Pavis.  All were old men." By the time of the Pavis Box (say 1617-1618) Benderri is described as an old man and all the other priests are much younger. I note I'm leaving Ginkizzie out of this - he could be seen as an old man but most people don't think of him as human.

So what happened to the other old priests?

They might have died of natural causes, but the Lunars might have ensured that there was a vacancy for Cyrilius Harmonious as well. As they were all old, I can't see them adventuring so any misadventure inthe Rubble would only have occurred in trips between Real City and New Pavis, or perhaps if they visited Mani's Fort.

So I'm reaching out to the community to see if anyone has information or ideas.  Given the characters will have grown up in Real City and would have been alive when all this happened it may be that they remember the events.  Or one of the late priests was a much-loved relative ... or any other plot hook that can be included in their family histories.

The second part of this is that all the other priests have been promoted since 1610.  Cyrilius is the newest priest and was assisted into the position by the Lunars, so there was most likely a deliberate hiring rush of new priests before him so that there is an established hierarchy of younger, healthy and competent priests ahead of him. All of this makes his chances of becoming the Son of Pavis much more remote.  So there would have been a flurry of five new Daughters of Pavis (say) in the years from 1610 to 1615.

As before, looking for anyone with a greater knowledge than I (or even interesting ideas on how to have the past impact the game).

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Graeme P said:

They might have died of natural causes, but the Lunars might have ensured that there was a vacancy for Cyrilius Harmonious as well. As they were all old, I can't see them adventuring so any misadventure inthe Rubble would only have occurred in trips between Real City and New Pavis, or perhaps if they visited Mani's Fort.

The outside steps of the Temple of New Pavis look like a likely place for old people to trip and fall.  Just saying...

 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Graeme P said:

The second part of this is that all the other priests have been promoted since 1610.  Cyrilius is the newest priest and was assisted into the position by the Lunars, so there was most likely a deliberate hiring rush of new priests before him so that there is an established hierarchy of younger, healthy and competent priests ahead of him. All of this makes his chances of becoming the Son of Pavis much more remote.  So there would have been a flurry of five new Daughters of Pavis (say) in the years from 1610 to 1615.

Cyrilius became the newest priest after Sor-eel had stablized his hold on the city, with a re-arranged city council, and possibly a new mayor. Bendrath filled the seventh position even after Cyrilius joined the Daughters of Pavis.

Ginkizzie and Benderri are the leftover priests from pre-occupation times, Bilkar might be, too, or he might be the immediate replacement of the daughter previously in charge of the Real City.

Fleeter Nemm and Broosta then would have risen to their rank of Daughters of Pavis more or less at the same time as Cyrilius.

Thus we have two or three casualties. Some may have been victims of the one day resistance, or of the mutiny of the defenders realistically assessing the likelihood of a successful defense against Sor-eel's army. After that, one or two may have been victims of the purges of the ruling families - Pavis history mentions decimation of the ruling Yelmalian family, and extinction of (most of) the descendants of Dorasar, but there will have been victims from other families. One other casualty of the Lunar takeover were the leading families of Zebra Fort, who got replaced by Hargran the Dirty in Zebraside and by the Patroma family in New Pavis.

 

How did one become a Daughter (or Son) of Pavis prior to the Lunar occupation?

I guess that most priests of Pavis are part of a stakeholder group in the cult of the city god. Old Pavisite families probably still have a larger influence inside the cult than their proportion of the population would suggest.

I suppose that Cyrilius Harmonius has more or less inherited the representation of the Zebra folk in the cult, and he may actually be the go-to person for any remaining Zebra people. Between him, Hargar, and Lunar-sponsored horse breeders (presumably from Jillaro) trying to return the zebras in large numbers to the city, the non-noble zebra folk might actually prosper somewhat, while their former nobility either rides with the Zebra tribe of the plains or with the Pol Joni like their ancestor Olgkarth did before allying with Dorasar.

(Disclaimer: I am quite partial to Cyrilius Harmonius, not the least since I got to play him in the 1997 run of "People of Pavis" at the first convention named "Tentacles" at Castle Stahleck, our second convention in that location and the first organized by Fabian.)

But then, the original inhabitants of Zebra Fort had not been accepting of Olgkarth, and while the ruling family of Zebra Fort had been deposed by Olgkarth and Dorasar in a nightly raid, it is possible that a majority of the Zebra Fort families regarded Olgkarth and his tribal folk as unwelcome new overlords. It is quite likely that Cyrilius Harmonius comes from one of these older families, possibly from the family of the previous rulers of Zebra Fort.

I suppose that prior to Olgkarth's arrival alongside Dorasar, the Zebra Fort nobility may have had a tentative claim on one of the Daughters' position. Whether that position was actually filled at the time of the conquest is different question, though. Depending on whether you include Ginkizzie in the Five Old Men who made up the priesthood of Pavis up to 1610, there was either one vacancy or two in the numbers of Daughters of Pavis. Prior to Bendrath's consecration as the sixth Daughter of Pavis, there had not been a full complement of priests for a while. This indicates a decline in the prosperity of New Pavis as the value of artifacts recovered from the city slowly declined, or at least the market value as the novelty factor was diluted by increased availability of everyday items from the EWF-influenced period.

Broosta is a priestess of Lhankor Mhy, and probably related to some of the Old Pavisite families that dominate the local cult - people whom I portray as wearing zebra hide or zebra fur ornamentation in their robes or other clothing to showcase their Old Pavic origins.

Her husband Fleeter Nemm appears to be of Sartarite stock, probably from among the converts to Pavis among Dorasar's followers who would have been the newcomers' representation in the cult. It is not much of a logical leap to suggest that the dead or retired former priests of Pavis would have been those with ties to the Dorasar family or the Sartarite newcomers.

Bilkar is a resident of the Real City, so he is in all likelihood of Old Pavic descent. Bendrath on the other hand is a former adventurer and may have come from Sartar or beyond.

 

The fate of the Dorasar family is unclear. The Pavis history states that "none  of  his  heirs  could  take  the  title,  nor  could
any  other. After  the  Duke’s  death,  the  city  was ruled by a council of its leaders, each aware of the others  and  of  their  part  in  the  whole.  The  Pavis cult  gave  guidance.
" (e.g. ISS 1604 Pavis and Big Rubble p.63)

King of Sartar gives us the name of the most outstanding son of Dorasar, Daringle, and Pavis, and describes him as a warlord, vanquisher of ancient ghosts, and successful treasure hunter. (p33)

The genealogical chart of Eonistaran's descendants on p.37 gives Daringle's death date as 1624, but that is contradicted by Pavis GTA which reports him slain by Lunar spirits or demons (or perhaps Gimgim) in 1610. It also mentions Verlain, the father of Brenna, and grandfather of Enostar Bad-Dream aka "Argrath of Pavis". It is quite likely that Dorasar's family was a lot more extensive than this.

GTA p.180 tells us that Daringle's son Orvost Tintalker or Dornold Orvost is the High Priest of Orlanth for Pavis and the Rubble, hiding out in the ruins and keeping the regalia of the High Priest out of reach of Falticus.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Graeme P said:

So what happened to the other old priests?

If we are talking pre-Argrath, then some of the Priests could have retired. although it could be a job for life, politics comes into play and some of them could be persuaded to live out their lives in comfort to make way for new blood.

The various factions all want to get someone onto the priesthood. The Lunars have Cyrillius Harmonious, but always want to increase their influence. The Old Pavisites want all the Priests to be from their background. The Orlanthi Rebels want Priests who sympathise with them or are from Orlanthi background. The old Orlanthi, who come from families associated with Dorasor, might be aligned with the Rebels but would have a different agenda. The River folk want representation from their people. Non-aligned newcomers might want a Priest who sympathises with them.

As the events leading up to the Hero Wars start to come into motion, the Priesthood needs to change and react, a bit of a problem for a cult with Stasis in its makeup. Better to change the Old Guard and bring in new Priests who are more suitable to the situation.

4 hours ago, metcalph said:

The outside steps of the Temple of New Pavis look like a likely place for old people to trip and fall.  Just saying...

Falling down stairs is a traditional way of changes to the Priesthood, as is wanting to spend more time with the family.

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, metcalph said:

The outside steps of the Temple of New Pavis look like a likely place for old people to trip and fall.  Just saying...

 

Those steep steps got very icy during the Great Winter too; nasty place for undernourished old folks to be clambering about, especially in those heavy ceremonial vestments...

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the replies.  I'm impressed with Joerg's knowledge levels, and was already indebted to soltakss because I have been using the stuff he did 15 years ago about a Pavis campaign timeline as a base of what happens when.

Having the priests of a stasis rune cult knocked off via causing such precipitious movement seems likely to succeed only occasionally. I'm also struggling with it being a random reason for death as part of the family history of a character as it is such an unremarkable way to die (absent any foul play) - not enough excitement and gossip comes from a mere slip of the foot perhaps.  As the Temple is dwarf-built, it would reflect very poorly on Ginkizzie if the Temple itself is unsafe. So I'm not wholly convinced.

I can see that the appearance of Cyrilius in New Pavis would have hastened the Pavis priests towards bringing Fleeter Nemm in to have a younger priest and persuading Broosta to do her duty by the old families in Real City to support their faction and Fleeter's position pretty much as soon as they both quailifed (after a quick course of masonry classes?).  That would have filled the ranks to a full set of seven priests allowing them to delay any new priests as being not needed.  So Sor-Eel needed to create a vacany or two ... 

If the first vacancy was filled by Bilkar (a member of the Real City faction) and the priests had him ready to be promoted then the first old man priest might have been able to retire before he was removed.  Logically, Sor-Eel is much more likely to have had a hand in creating the second vacancy (filled by Cyrillius if Joerg is right that he was appointed before Bendrath).

So I think that the first old man might have either retired (if that was a thing) or been dealt with, the second most definitely met an unfortunate end and only the last of the three unknown elderly priests had an unremarkable death.

And from the above I now have an order of events, of a sort.

The above timeline makes Cyrilius senior to Bendrath.  The two most likely priests that characters would deal with would be Bendrath and Fleeter; however Fleeter has a lot of responsibility and so Bendrath is more likely. This adds to any clandestine nature of any goings-on if Bendrath has to be careful about his responsibilites to all more senior priests.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...