Uleria initiation ceremonies and myths

[Storytellers]

I have recently been running my first Glorantha campaign and recently finished the defend Applelane adventure. One of my players decided to have join the Uleria temple as an initiate.
Now I would like to run an initiation ceremony for them in a manner similar to the level of detail of the Orlanthi or Ernalda initiation ceremony written by Andrew Logan Montgomery. But sadly I can’t seem to find any details about the initiation ceremonies of gods other than Ernalda or Orlanth. I was wondering if someone would know of a place where this information could possibly be? If not, I would be curious to know how people have run their initiation ceremonies. 

This also leads to my second question. I wanted to seed a bit more of the illumination path into my ceremony/heroquests. I was wondering what an Ulerian version of illumination would look like?

My last (I promise!) question would be relating more to the heroquests of Uleria. As far as I can tell I might be able to use the myths of Uleria and her various versions (e.g. Esrola) to turn onto heroquests. So far I have found 2 Sartarian relevant myths that have Uleria in them: First people, and Uleria and the Boggles. I was wondering if there were others written I have not found. Hopefully ones relating to all aspects of Uleria, not just sex, but stuff that emphasises how she is an all loving goddess, and the goddess of every version of love (agape, pragma, etc). 
More information on how exactly she survived chaos (I think I found a reference somewhere mentioning she hid in places where people committed acts of great love but I could be misremembering) would also be useful. I’m not sure I understand what happens to the other gods of celestial court. Furthermore, from what I can tell she is mentioned as the thing that overturned chaos, but I can’t tell if this is literal (as in she is one of the lightbringers like Chalana Arroy and her suspiciously lacking past). Or something more abstract like the power of love(kinship allowed the light ringers to work together.  
 

Hope this wasn’t too many questions at once. I’m still wrapping my head around all the lore of Glorantha :)

[jajagappa]

3 minutes ago, Storytellers said:

But sadly I can’t seem to find any details about the initiation ceremonies of gods other than Ernalda or Orlanth. I was wondering if someone would know of a place where this information could possibly be? 

Largely those two are the only ones with more detailed ceremonies, whether for adulthood or into the cults (excluding such events as humans joining troll cults).

6 minutes ago, Storytellers said:

If not, I would be curious to know how people have run their initiation ceremonies. 

Since most characters start as initiates, generally this is just a prior event and not detailed.

One source you may find useful is the Esrolia: Land of Ten Thousand Goddesses book (part of the Stafford Library collection).

The rites of Urvarna and Demarath (p.18) might provide some useful ideas (even though this is post-Great Darkness, pre-Dawn): 

Urvarna and Demarath began this process; two people who were attracted to each other but sensed that their relationship could be deeper than it was. They were friends, even sexual partners, but they sought deeper love. Their discontent irritated their neighbors and kinfolk who were having a difficult enough time just getting by. The couple
set off, bearing the light and the dark in their pouches, and they found the Great Stone. They went into it, and they found their way past the dangers there. Tereneel, the Little Voice, promised them a gift greater than each other if they survived this. The trials separated them, but each determined to go on anyway. Urvana found Gelstarn, the Beloved; and Demarath found Serumtha, the Lover. The pair had been sleeping, but once awakened these Grandmothers brought the two together again. They returned to their people, and they taught to them the rites of Awakening.  

There is a Sleeping Beauty aspect in the above (both male and female versions) that would in my mind be appropriate to riff upon.

Also many of the Imarja tales in that work are very close to what I think of as Ulerian mysteries.  (Imarja is the Esrolian creatrix)  See p.23-24.

The other source to look at is Heortling Mythology, but particularly the stories of Orane who is something of an Earth goddess reflection of Uleria.

The Necklace of Enlivenment story (p.40) would I think be useful:

At the Feyghost River, Orane gave away her clothing so she could get the Necklace of Enlivenment, which made her the most beautiful goddess alive. Everyone came to gaze at her, and after a time she grew ashamed because they lusted for her and did not recognize who she really was. After a time, she grew ashamed of her nakedness and hid in the Nymie Valley. She was discovered, then hid underneath the Feyghost. She eventually traded the Necklace of Enlivenment away for food and a ragged dress.

This would seem a natural part of initiation where the initiate selfishly tries to take the beautiful necklace and become the most beautiful person, but is forced to hide.  From this stage they could go on to build a community (perhaps even of other little living things - frog princes, flighty pixies, stern toads, sinister snakes, etc.).  And eventually find their way to the Lover or the Beloved as above.

 

[jajagappa]

Another myth to draw upon is the Greek myth of Paris and the Three Goddesses.  But instead of being in the role of Paris, you find in turn that you are each of the three goddesses (in this case three aspects of Uleria) and must convince the hero to choose you (use of Charm, Orate, Sing, or other Communication skills).

[David Scott]

57 minutes ago, Storytellers said:

Now I would like to run an initiation ceremony for them in a manner similar to the level of detail of the Orlanthi or Ernalda initiation ceremony written by Andrew Logan Montgomery.

Firstly have a read of Greg's initiation essays for Orlanth and Ernalda. These should give you a feel for what you need:

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/glorantha-2/cultures/ernaldan-initiation-rites/

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/glorantha-2/cultures/orlanthi-overview/orlanthi-initiation-rites/

look at the steps for Ernalda especially.

A Ulerian initiate should have Uleria's three aspects as part of the initiation, they are in the GM Screen adventure book, mixed in with the temple description, here they are in detail for the upcoming gods book:

Quote

 

1. Through the Body. This is courtship and carnal sex, both of which communicate the Life Forces of Love through participants.

2. Through Companionship. Social integrity comes from the Love of people for their community. Sharing and caring are routes to experience Love.

3. Through Propagation. Incarnation of the Life Force can be accomplished by everything which seeks to reproduce itself. Responsible childrearing increases the Love and lovers in the world. Aiding orphans, mothers, herds, and gardens increases the Life Force of the world.

All three methods seek the same end: to experience the Oneness of Love, the Eternal Moment of Allness which lies beyond Harmony.

 

Uleria is also the moment of reproduction. When ever a god is born (whatever that means) Uleria is there. She is in every god's story, just not always visible. 

Quote

Most stories about the goddess are sensual and erotic. Some may seem lewd and questionable, even gross and perverted, to the listener. All fall within the compass of the Goddess of Love. Her other aspects, social and fertile, receive their share of storytelling as well.

...

Bringing together is apparent in all nature. When two bubbles of quicksilver join, that is caused by Love. When leaves fall to the ground, or anything at all falls to earth, that is because the Earth Mother’s Love pulls us there. Water flows downhill to the sea because it seeks to come together with the ocean in Love. Societies exist because of Love, and everyone knows how the genders are attracted to one another. All these activities are motions of Love through the Life Force.

Reproduction can mean either propagation of the species, or the generation of something completely new.

So the initiation should encompass all three aspects, likely as a test. So the first story would be Uleria courts (who ever is available). Any player of a different cult can play the opposite role. The second could be whenever a group is made, so Uleria's presence at the group's clan making or other bonding moment. Propagation part is causing something to reproduce in the quest.

I'd have great fun with this getting player to invent the tasks.

1 hour ago, Storytellers said:

This also leads to my second question. I wanted to seed a bit more of the illumination path into my ceremony/heroquests. I was wondering what an Ulerian version of illumination would look like?

Uleria is illuminated, given that she's the cause of procreation - including chaos creatures...

I believe that most Ulerian practices are very similar to tantric Buddhism and are practiced without the knowledge that they lead to illumination.

Have a look at  A Complete Introduction To Buddhist Thought, chapter 7 as framework. Here's a brief Ulerian take on the outlines:

• Importance of a teacher - should be an illuminated Ulerian priestess.
• Ritual use of mandalas - we can see them being used on page 7 of the Red Book of Magic.
• the transgressive dimension - the employment of ritual sexual intercourse as ritual offering.
• Revaluation of the body -  a runic model of the body as the basis for generating blissful experience (yoga).
• the practice of connection between deities, mandalas, mantras, practitioners’ bodies—and other elements or factors that they are seen to symbolise or embody. See RQG page 21.
• Practicing Runic correspondences: directions, colours, hand-gestures, elements, etc Like the runic associations, but not mixing them. We can see Aileena on page 69 of the adventure book showing a two handed mudra (hand-gesture), each finger corresponds to an elemental rune.

 

[soltakss]

2 hours ago, Storytellers said:

Now I would like to run an initiation ceremony for them in a manner similar to the level of detail of the Orlanthi or Ernalda initiation ceremony written by Andrew Logan Montgomery.

I am not allowed to read that, as I might be playing in a campaign based on the supplement.

2 hours ago, Storytellers said:

But sadly I can’t seem to find any details about the initiation ceremonies of gods other than Ernalda or Orlanth. I was wondering if someone would know of a place where this information could possibly be? 

I can't think of anywhere that has such initiations.

2 hours ago, Storytellers said:

If not, I would be curious to know how people have run their initiation ceremonies. 

Generally, I pick a myth and go through it. The myth might change from temple to temple or country to country, depending on what the temple or country thinks is important.

So, the new member goes through a ceremony where they are accepted into the cult and make their binding oaths, in return the cult sears to support them.

For Uleria, the myth might be Uleria helps <someone>.

2 hours ago, Storytellers said:

My last (I promise!) question would be relating more to the heroquests of Uleria.

I might be on firmer ground here.

2 hours ago, Storytellers said:

As far as I can tell I might be able to use the myths of Uleria and her various versions (e.g. Esrola) to turn onto heroquests. So far I have found 2 Sartarian relevant myths that have Uleria in them: First people, and Uleria and the Boggles. I was wondering if there were others written I have not found.

They are the main ones.

Cult Compendium mentions how Uleria impregnated herself (p11) , how Rashoran strengthened Uleria (p11), Uleria is the mother of Shanassee (p197) and mentions a Ulerian song that calls Chaos "Mother and father of the world" (p262).

The Guide to Glorantha mentions Olarians as love nymphs and mothers of red elves (p63), the founder of Zoria as an aspect of Uleria (p222), Ulawar has the oldest temple to Uleria (p317), Uleria on the Gods Wall (p672) and claims Umatum is the son of Uleria (p318).

2 hours ago, Storytellers said:

Hopefully ones relating to all aspects of Uleria, not just sex, but stuff that emphasises how she is an all loving goddess, and the goddess of every version of love (agape, pragma, etc). 

In a soon to be published Jonstown Compendium supplement, we mention Uleria as a goddess involved in helping Humakt grieve, but that is not out yet.

2 hours ago, Storytellers said:

More information on how exactly she survived chaos (I think I found a reference somewhere mentioning she hid in places where people committed acts of great love but I could be misremembering) would also be useful. I’m not sure I understand what happens to the other gods of celestial court.

They all died.

Uleria was the only one who survived, maybe because the Boggles ripped her apart, maybe because love is all around.

2 hours ago, Storytellers said:

Furthermore, from what I can tell she is mentioned as the thing that overturned chaos, but I can’t tell if this is literal (as in she is one of the lightbringers like Chalana Arroy and her suspiciously lacking past). Or something more abstract like the power of love(kinship allowed the light ringers to work together.  

Probably the power of love.

2 hours ago, Storytellers said:

Hope this wasn’t too many questions at once. I’m still wrapping my head around all the lore of Glorantha

Ask away, those are interesting questions.

2 hours ago, Storytellers said:

This also leads to my second question. I wanted to seed a bit more of the illumination path into my ceremony/heroquests. I was wondering what an Ulerian version of illumination would look like?

Ulerian Illumination comes from Rashoran, because Rashoran Illuminated Uleria. It might be a cult secret, handed down in a SubCult.

Some Ulerians are normal illuminates, who are Illuminated the normal way.

Is there a difference? Probably not.

 

 

[Eff]

Uleria is all about transgression. Love is eternal, undying, true? Love is something I can make with the snap of my fingers. Sex is an expression of union and intimacy? Yes, and for a donation that intimacy can be yours, and then when we're done it will no longer have any existence. And this extends further. Kinship is cosmic? Mhm. But I'm more cosmic. I can reshape family with my words. Reproduction involves a father and a mother? No. Reproduction involves a father, a mother, and me. The other things are still true. But Uleria's perspective goes deeper, and broader, to an Omega Point of all-consuming Love that dissolves the self. 

As such, some things that may well happen before and during an Uleria initiation would include elaborate roleplaying to loosen your selfhood up- giving you alternate personas to become, with different kin and different lives. All of it to prepare for the moment where you have sex with Uleria and then realize you are Uleria, having sex with yourself, and then you come down from the high with some new tattoos and a shiny new Erotocomatose Lucidity spell. 

Which is to say, the Illumination is baked right in to the worldview of the cult, and it's just a matter of PCs recognizing it at some point. 

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by Eff

[Squaredeal Sten]

As Eratocomatose Lucidity is a 3 point Rune spell, I doubt that all brand new Uleria initiates come out with it.  A lot of people will sacrifice 1 POW to start with and why take a spell you cannot cast?  Although the three listed Ulerian Rune spells are 2 and 3 pointers.  Maybe others, 1 pointers,  will be revealed in the Cults of Glorantha series.  Or maybe a 1 point initiate just has the common spells.

But I suspect that Eff is otherwise generally right, the initiation starts you off on walking the path of the god and gaining some of the god's insights.  Probably not all of them at once because then what would be left to learn?  Most new Adventurers' Cult Lore is far short of 100%.  I would guess that the initiate of any cult won't have all the insights until the priesthood, and maybe not then.  But the new Initiate will have been instructed in all the god's aspects even if the initiation itself doesn't involve enacting them all.  

The initiation should Involve choosing or not choosing the god's path.  

Some of the aspects of Ulerian myth  like 

Spoiler

Overcoming Chaos by surviving a gang bang.  See Book of Heortling Mythology page 23.

Should be reserved for an Ulerian heroquest. At least saved for Sacred Time reenactment with a specially picked audience and a set of guards.  An Ulerian heroquest of that myth gone wrong  might intersect with a broo's heroquest.

The initiation Itself will be both preceded and followed by instruction in the cult skills.  Uleria is not among the short form cult write ups in RQiG, but you can approximate them by examining the skills of the Ulerians in the Apple Lane temple: See the GM screen pack Gamemaster Adventures book page 60.. And examining the character sheet: who else teaches courtesan? and the Apple Lane examples indicate  Ulerians should have other strong  communication skills like Charm and Dance.  Remember that the cults involve daily life as well as contact with the godtime.

Edited March 19, 2023 by Squaredeal Sten
Corrected error on runes.

[jajagappa]

43 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

But remember Uleria is the original owner of the communication [harmony] Rune

She's the original owner, and still owner, of the LIFE Rune.

Harmony was Harana Ilor and now held by Chalana Arroy.

[metcalph]

6 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

Some of the aspects of Ulerian myth  like 

  Reveal hidden contents

Overcoming Chaos by surviving a gang bang.  See Book of Heortling Mythology page 23.

 

Boggles aren't chaotic.  

[Joerg]

9 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

Some of the aspects of Ulerian myth  like 

  Hide contents

Overcoming Chaos by surviving a gang bang.  See Book of Heortling Mythology page 23.

Should be reserved for an Ulerian heroquest. At least saved for Sacred Time reenactment with a specially picked audience and a set of guards.  An Ulerian heroquest of that myth gone wrong  might intersect with a broo's heroquest.

The Boggles are not Chaos. They are actually very effective in destroying Chaos. It is hard to say whether they discriminate between Chaos and normal Creation, although Uleria-primed ones might be so inclined.

While Chaos is weirdly into forced reproduction (into an existence that is misery), there is a trend for individual impregnation (whether Arachne Solara with Kajaboor or Teelo Estara with Blaskarth).

[Squaredeal Sten]

12 hours ago, jajagappa said:

She's the original owner, and still owner, of the LIFE Rune.

Harmony was Harana Ilor and now held by Chalana Arroy.

I stand corrected. Will fix that..

[Squaredeal Sten]

7 hours ago, metcalph said:

Boggles aren't chaotic.  

Metcalf and Joerg are right; I found Boggkes in Anaxial's Roster.  They are a manifestation of pure Disirder.

[ For the original poster and all of us less experienced folks. Anaxial's Roster is a currently out of print Formerly Heroquest book.  In future maybe to be reprinted for Questworlds .]

So back to the O.P.'s request. Perhaps that particular piece of Ulerian legend could be Heroquested at Sacred Time by 

Spoiler

Group sex with a large number of Eurmal initiates.  // This should produce effects of Uleria"s Net. That (net) is the way love binds the world and people together.

That could imply strengthening a group or community as the benefit of the quest.  Specifics to be dealt by the GM to fit the situation.

Do you think they could stand in for Boggles?  

Edited March 19, 2023 by Squaredeal Sten
Spelling / typing

[hipsterinspace]

46 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

Do you think they could stand in for Boggles?  

I would think that ongoing kinstrife, the fearful people of your community in the middle of a crisis, or even a particularly long and heated lovers quarrel is more likely to be the stand-in for Boggles than an orgy of tricksters (to say nothing of the fact that having more than one trickster around is tempting fate). The Ulerian then offers of herself to stop the spread of disorder, fear, and hatred using the power of love, sometimes at great personal risk. The lesson of the myth is that sometimes you can only overcome those ugly intractable things with love, not with indifference, changing perspective, deception, appeasement, lofty pronouncements, or violence. It also alludes to the fact that sometimes love brings forth disorder, the dangers of being consumed by passion.

Uleria is love. She is love in all forms, and while certainly romantic love is part, so is love for one's friends and community, and perhaps most importantly a mother's love. Uleria is the mother of all life and its primordial force, she is the mother of Grandfather Mortal and loves all of her children. While people tend to get hung up on it, Uleria is far, far more than the physical "act of love" between people, but that is only the easiest part to understand.

[Squaredeal Sten]

5 minutes ago, hipsterinspace said:

I would think that ongoing kinstrife, the fearful people of your community in the middle of a crisis, or even a particularly long and heated lovers quarrel is more likely to be the stand-in for Boggles than an orgy of tricksters (to say nothing of the fact that having more than one trickster around is tempting fate). The Ulerian then offers of herself to stop the spread of disorder, fear, and hatred using the power of love, sometimes at great personal risk. The lesson of the myth is that sometimes you can only overcome those ugly intractable things with love, not with indifference, changing perspective, deception, appeasement, lofty pronouncements, or violence. Itas also alludes to the fact that sometimes love brings forth disorder, the dangers of being consumed by passion.

Uleria is love. She is love in all forms, and while certainly romantic love is part, so is love for one's friends and community, and perhaps most importantly a mother's love. Uleria is the mother of all life and its primordial force, she is the mother of Grandfather Mortal and loves all of her children. While people tend to get hung up on it, Uleria is far, far more than the physical "act of love" between people, but that is only the easiest part to understand.

I would think the benefit sought in the heroquest would be controlling one of the items listed: ending kinstrife etc.  But the quest itself would be an attempt to match the elements of the myth.

Multiple Eurmali? Sure enough they will be difficult. Eurmal doesn't have the disorder rune for nothing. 

Spoiler

For example any number of Eurmali might get drunk enough to be impotent.  Or they might find other ways not to deliver on the myth.  Luckily getting  several Eurmsli to all cooperate on the same strategy should fall apart like a Three Stooges episode.  This is a situation which should produce MGF, in a raunchy way.

But success produces Uleria's Net.

  That is what will make the quest difficult.  The challenge for the quester is how to make it happen anyway.

 

 

[hipsterinspace]

I think this misses the point. Uleria's net is love, that is why love can be disruptive and maddening. She doesn't offer the boggles sex, she offers them love, those can be very different things. The elements of every myth are as much literal as they are metaphorical and the nature of the rites will depend on the situation and the quester.

[John Biles]

On 1/20/2021 at 8:13 AM, Storytellers said:

More information on how exactly she survived chaos (I think I found a reference somewhere mentioning she hid in places where people committed acts of great love but I could be misremembering) would also be useful. I’m not sure I understand what happens to the other gods of celestial court. Furthermore, from what I can tell she is mentioned as the thing that overturned chaos, but I can’t tell if this is literal (as in she is one of the lightbringers like Chalana Arroy and her suspiciously lacking past). Or something more abstract like the power of love(kinship allowed the light ringers to work together.  
 

Uleria is the last of the old major gods left standing; all the rest died in various ways, from Ratslaff having Eurmal explode out of his head to Umath being killed by  Jagrekriand.  The gods of the celestial court died at the hands of each other, the forces of Chaos, exploding heads, and many other deaths as the world sank into darkness after Yelm's death.

I expect Uleria survived by manifesting among her worshippers in the little pockets of stability which survived in the Darkness and using her magic to ensure they could grow food and eat even in the dark.

 

[hipsterinspace]

3 hours ago, John Biles said:

I expect Uleria survived by manifesting among her worshippers in the little pockets of stability which survived in the Darkness and using her magic to ensure they could grow food and eat even in the dark.

Uleria survived because she is present whenever anything is joined together and something new is created. She is the primordial force that creates all living things, including every mortal from the meanest broo to the most exalted Talar. She is there wherever love exists, whether that's romance, friendship, or the bonds of kin and community. She survived because life and love survived, where those things are present she simply exists as a fact. I would argue that she doesn't even need worship, she is immanent everywhere, that is what her runes mean:.

Edited March 20, 2023 by hipsterinspace

[g33k]

On 1/20/2021 at 9:02 AM, soltakss said:

...

Uleria was the only one who survived, maybe because the Boggles ripped her apart, maybe because love is all around.

...

n.b. if she got ripped apart, the shreds and pieces of her got spread all around.  Looks like a mythical correspondence to me!   😎

[Squaredeal Sten]

6 hours ago, g33k said:

n.b. if she got ripped apart, the shreds and pieces of her got spread all around.  Looks like a mythical correspondence to me!   😎

Uleria had holes ripped in her. Making "Uleria's net".  That is different from being ripped into separate pieces

The mythic correspondence is the net that catches us all. Or almost all.

Maybe it is appropriate to compare this to Arachne Solara's web, time, which also seems to function as a net.  These are two different occurrences of the net simile in Gloranthan legend.

 

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Squaredeal Sten
Spelling / typing

[Squaredeal Sten]

12 hours ago, hipsterinspace said:

Uleria survived because she is present whenever anything is joined together and something new is created. She is the primordial force that creates all living things, including every mortal from the meanest broo to the most exalted Talar. She is there wherever love exists, whether that's romance, friendship, or the bonds of kin and community. She survived because life and love survived, where those things are present she simply exists as a fact. I would argue that she doesn't even need worship, she is immanent everywhere, that is what her runes mean:.

Almost Everyone is a lay member of Uleria.  ( IMHO broos are not, as they hate everyone including themselves.)  But for the rest of "everyone", adults anyway, Uleria gets her MPs routinely, without need to gather in a temple, whenever we come together in her spirit.  Her occasional temples are bonuses and teaching spaces to benefit mortals.

I do think it is inconsistent with the background literature to try to make Uleria a chaste goddess. She is clearly not chaste, as the examples of her initiates show, and an initiate's goal is to better conform to the example of the god.  And while that may bother some of you reading this, it doesn't bother Uleria.  It doesn't bother her initiates either, and that may be one of the life changing secrets learned in initiation.

The original poster said that this thread is the result of a player who chose to create a Ulerian Adventurer.  To me that is a good indication of the nature of play the player seeks.  Why shouldn't the GM play along if he or she wishes?  After all the game is a shared creation.

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Squaredeal Sten
Spelling

[hipsterinspace]

54 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

I do think it is inconsistent with the background literature to try to make Uleria a chaste goddess. She is clearly not chaste, as the examples of her initiates show, and an initiate's goal is to better conform to the example of the god.  And while that may bother some of you reading this, it doesn't bother Uleria.  It doesn't bother her initiates either, and that may be one of the life changing secrets learned in initiation.

The original poster said that this thread is the result of a player who chose to create a Ulerian Adventurer.  To me that is a good indication of the nature of play the player seeks.  Why shouldn't the GM play along if he or she wishes?  After all the game is a shared creation.

She is not chaste by any means, she is also the physical act of love, the love of the body. Her priesthood exercise sex as a sacred bond and a ritual art, but more than sex, they offer companionship, they are hetaera not pornoi. The point I’m making here isn’t that Uleria is chaste, she very plainly isn’t, it’s that she is much more than sex. Sex is just one manifestation of her gifts of life and love. This is why her temples have three entrances for the public, in addition to the sacred bordello—emphasis there on sacred—there are also baths and a place to eat a communal meal. A focus on the sex aspect to the exclusion of other things doesn’t make her lurid or risqué, it makes her boring.

[mfbrandi]

1 hour ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

Almost Everyone is a lay member of Uleria. (IMHO broos are not, as they hate everyone including themselves.)

Because I am a miserable old cynic, I kick against attempts to run together sex, sexual reproduction, love, and life …

Quote

 Symbolizes the Ancient Cup from which the whole world was poured at the dawn of creation. This is the symbol of growth and life.

Quote

Goddess of love … though some believe that that being which is worshiped in her name is only a small portion of the whole … or is actually another goddess — WoD

… and even the mainstream would seem to allow the possibility of alternative or more capacious understandings of ‘Uleria’.

If Uleria is the goddess of love, the broos could probably do with some.

If Uleria is the Old Survivor, the cup from which the whole world was poured, perhaps she is the chief god of Chaos.

[hipsterinspace]

4 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

If Uleria is the Old Survivor, the cup from which the whole world was poured, perhaps she is the chief god of Chaos.

Uleria is an illuminated goddess and was present at the birth of all gods, including when the Unholy Trio birthed Wakboth the Devil. Thed supplied the fertility for the ritual in practical terms, but Uleria was there.

[Eff]

28 minutes ago, hipsterinspace said:

She is not chaste by any means, she is also the physical act of love, the love of the body. Her priesthood exercise sex as a sacred bond and a ritual art, but more than sex, they offer companionship, they are hetaera not pornoi.  

I would assume that, even if the priesthood offers the girlfriend/boyfriend experience, that the goddess embraces all kinds of sex workers, because it's still intimacy created by the exchange of money. It's like the three entrances to her temple- that's a sex joke. Anything built atop that is built atop the foundation of "Uleria's temples have three entrances just like her body has three holes, har de har", which doesn't invalidate the exegesis, but should, in my opinion, remind us that Uleria is universal and beyond propriety or respectability. Or ought to be. 

[scott-martin]

4 minutes ago, Eff said:

even if the priesthood offers the girlfriend/boyfriend experience, that the goddess embraces all kinds of sex workers,

One uh "riddle" this poses is how such a gf/bf experience maps across competing ernalda/dendara forms of marriage. We know ernalda and dendara initiations are aggressively non-reciprocal but can a sufficiently advanced uleria initiate worship freely in both temples and others besides? Kierkegaard, perhaps perversely, insists that the answer is no. But there are some mighty advanced ulerians out there.