Solar Campaign

[None]

42 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Yes, there is even a HeroForming spell in the RQG Rulebook, Call Founder.

That's not what I meant as that spell summons a separate entity in a separate body.

 

You're making me doubt my memory here but I'm confident that the Heroforming from Hero Quest that I'm talking about that you yourself transform into a limited aspect of your deity.

Essentially invoking an extremely small scale Heroquest, giving you the abilituy to perfom said god's deed even if normaly beyond your physical capability. The limitation being that you bind yourself to acting as the deity in question did in that small mythical instance.

 

(I.e. the Ernalda version I mentioned allows you to make large swaths of the earth ferile simply by you being carried, or riding if you want to push it, past it.

You must however be pregnant and you must imitate Ernalda traveling throughout the land.)

Edited April 23, 2021 by None

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, None said:

You're making me doubt my memory here but I'm confident that the Heroforming from Hero Quest that I'm talking about that you yourself transform into a limited aspect of your deity.

That's what you do each time you cast Rune spells, or successfully get inspired based on your deity's Runes.

HQG had some specific aspects around this (e.g. Feats) which brought you closer to your god, more attuned to your god.

This is represented in RQG in several ways.  First, by progressing to become a Rune-level practitioner of your cult, you are embodying the skills and magics (and Runes) of your god.

Second, by performing the ritual practices, worship ceremonies, and devotions to your god, you are instilling yourself with the ways, practices, and passions of your deity.

Third, you can undertake heroquests that allow you to further reflect and attune yourself as your deity.  However, to best achieve these, you want to have the skills, Runes, magics, Passions, etc. that get you closest to the deity - and by acting as your deity, you gain benefits (i.e. bonuses) during your heroquests.  At the same time, if you fail to enact your part as your deity you gain substantial penalties, and may fall out of the quest altogether.

 

 

 

[jajagappa]

4 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

But what about spirits? they don't need worshipers to understand the "now" situation. They can act easely in mundane world (compared to gods)

I'd tend to argue that spirits do not really "understand" the "now" situation.  They are in their own amorphous, ever-changing, but yet never-changing Spirit World.  That may in places be tangent to the mundane world, but from a conceptual rather than actual standpoint.

Some spirits do get bound or trapped in the mundane world, e.g. ghosts.  But the concerns of the ghost are not the concerns of "now" but of whatever trapped them in the mundane world (e.g. hate, lack of burial service, etc.).

Spirits are weaker than gods though so it is possible for mortals to summon them back.  Do they care or even know about the current situation?  Only abstractly.  Your Ancestor may have Hate(Greydog), and will act upon that.  Will they know that the Greydogs have raided you recently?  No.  Will they ask if you've raided the Greydogs?  Yes, because that is their driving passion.  Will they know that Leika is now Queen?  No.  Will they ask if your king/queen is leading you against the Greydogs?  Yes. 

[jajagappa]

One added thought on spirits and the mundane world.  I always liked the ideas in the HQG scenario: Ghosts on the Ridge. 

Possible spoilers below:

Spoiler

In that scenario you encounter the ghosts of the Vostangi clan.  They were cursed and want you to free them from the curse.  But those that cursed them are gone from the world too!  So now you're left with having to find a proxy for those who cursed them so that you can free them from the curse. 

The mundane world has moved on.... The concerns of the spirits have not - they are locked in the "reality" of the time when they existed, which is no more.

[soltakss]

On 4/23/2021 at 9:05 AM, French Desperate WindChild said:

I thought like you, but I faced a big issue: the great compromise:

In my Glorantha, Gods may (rarely but they can, and with the "help" or at least the "gate" of initiates eyes) act in the mundane world.

It is all a matter of power, or importance.

Deities such as Orlanth are bound by the Compromise, as are many demigods and powerful Spirits.

I would go so far as saying that everyone in the God Time joined the Great Compromise, in particular those who died and were in Hell.

On 4/23/2021 at 9:05 AM, French Desperate WindChild said:

But what about spirits? they don't need worshipers to understand the "now" situation. They can act easely in mundane world (compared to gods)

The Cult Compendium has rules about Spirit Cults on p28. There was an article somewhere, can't remember where, about Spirit Lords, those Spirits not powerful enough to be full deities but who could grant skills and/or spells. These are not Great Spirits, as such, but just powerful ones.

On 4/23/2021 at 9:05 AM, French Desperate WindChild said:

So what could be a Yelm-great spirit ? a mask of Yelm? the "autonomous" part of the full God Yelm?

Whatever face Yelm presents to shamans.

Among Pentians, Yelm is Yu-Kargzant, the Lord of Kargzant.

For Praxians, Yelm would be very difficult to approach, but a son of Yelm might be easier to get magic from. Yamsur is probably the son of Yelm that Praxians contacted for magic, but he is long-gone.

 

[soltakss]

On 4/23/2021 at 9:12 AM, None said:

On 4/23/2021 at 8:30 AM, soltakss said:

Yes, there is even a HeroForming spell in the RQG Rulebook, Call Founder.

That's not what I meant as that spell summons a separate entity in a separate body.

I have always played that the Founder inhabits the Khan's body, so it is HeroForming.

On 4/23/2021 at 9:12 AM, None said:

You're making me doubt my memory here but I'm confident that the Heroforming from Hero Quest that I'm talking about that you yourself transform into a limited aspect of your deity.

In RQ, Firshala cultists could do it, as could worshippers of Mistress Sazdorf. HeroForming is merely an extension of those examples into a general principle.

On 4/23/2021 at 9:12 AM, None said:

Essentially invoking an extremely small scale Heroquest, giving you the abilituy to perfom said god's deed even if normaly beyond your physical capability. The limitation being that you bind yourself to acting as the deity in question did in that small mythical instance.

 

(I.e. the Ernalda version I mentioned allows you to make large swaths of the earth ferile simply by you being carried, or riding if you want to push it, past it.

You must however be pregnant and you must imitate Ernalda traveling throughout the land.)

That is essentially HeroQuesting, not HeroForming, although you are making Ernalda manifest in you, so it could be a combination of both.

 

 

[None]

I apologize for reviving a three year old thread like this but with the release of the solar cults book (hopefully) right around the corner my mind have been wandering back to the idea of a solar campaign quite a lot more recently. There is one idea in particular that have been popping up in my mind several times but I've also been very hesitant about.

Since things seem to be hereditary among solar cultures and even more so I'd wager among urban solar cultures I have been toying with the idea of a generational solar campaign that spans over several generations (and characters) possibly even an age or two if I really felt like it. Although, realistically. At that point it'd be more like several sequential campaigns.

Still, feasible or not I'd still like some input on the idea. Pitfalls, advice, possibilities and such.

[Joerg]

7 hours ago, None said:

Still, feasible or not I'd still like some input on the idea. Pitfalls, advice, possibilities and such.

In the Glorious ReAscent of Yelm there are hints at protective spirits of solar families that keep giving advice and prophecy to their families. Do you plan the campaign(s) to involve a single solar family, or possibly several (rival?) families crossing paths again and again?

[None]

59 minutes ago, Joerg said:

In the Glorious ReAscent of Yelm there are hints at protective spirits of solar families that keep giving advice and prophecy to their families. Do you plan the campaign(s) to involve a single solar family, or possibly several (rival?) families crossing paths again and again?

I was thinking about having it revolve around a single solar family that ale the players either belong to directly or serve depending on what the players want to serve (although I probably need at least one player every generation to be an actual descendant). Together with a few reoccurring rival and/or allied npc houses that cross path with them through the generations.

That felt the most intuitive and in line with the whole inheritance bit. Unless you meant several rival player houses in which case I hadn't thought about that. Not quite sure how to do it in a satisfying way either.

I do like the bit about protective spirits of solar families that keep giving advice and prophecy to their families. That is definitely something I would want to lean into.

[mfbrandi]

4 hours ago, Joerg said:

In the Glorious ReAscent of Yelm there are hints at protective spirits of solar families that keep giving advice and prophecy to their families.

Now you have me imagining a campaign where the PCs are those spirits nagging at generations of foolish fleshlings.

[None]

On 9/26/2024 at 11:22 PM, mfbrandi said:

Now you have me imagining a campaign where the PCs are those spirits nagging at generations of foolish fleshlings.

Actually I have been considering starting the campaign during the Golden Age and having at least some of the players characters from that time become the kind of icons that end up as subcults that their descendants can initiate into for a cool benefit or two (runic powers, social or otherwise).

Of course that leaves me in a position where I'd want to play through the Greater Darkness and I'm not sure how to do that considering the Dara Happans spent the entirety of that time huddled together in their cities inside a glazier. I'm assuming that they still had their share of Chaos troubles but probable less so that most others. So internal social politicking?

Of course there is also the fact that Yelm probably was quite unavailable during that time which should have serious consequences for the nobility. Could they even initiate into Yelm at that time? Or had they to make do with a diminished form of Yelm or one of his sons (such as their equivalent of Yelmalio)?

I'd also wager that Yelm associate cults couldn't get access to runic power that he normally gives them access too.

Also don't know how it would affect Dendara worshipers considering she was alive but followed Yelm into the underworld. Then we also have Erissa and Buserian cultists who locally probably didn't venture into the underworld with Orlanth but but did so as Chalana Arroy an Lhankor Mhy.

Of course, this assumes most Solar Deities weren't asleep like the Storm and Earth ones were. Come to think of it. The Troll Gods were very much awake during this time weren't they? What about  the water gods?

I would like to play through a part of the Greater darkness though. It should be be possible to make that an interesting and turbulent time for the Dara Happans but they just had to hunker down inside a huge block of ice until everything resolved itself (due to Yelm's prayer naturally 😀). Leaving me a little stumped.

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, None said:

Actually I have been considering starting the campaign during the Golden Age and having at least some of the players characters from that time become the kind of icons that end up as subcults that their descendants can initiate into for a cool benefit or two (runic powers, social or otherwise).

You could start in the Golden Age with the coronation of Murharhzarm or possibly him delegating the taming of the Oslir river to Lodril's children with the river, and then taking the Ten Tests, but it might make more sense to start with the founding of Yuthuppa and possibly the resettlement or set-up of Anaxial's other six cities after the Flood, especially if you want to use Yuthuppa rather than Raibanth. Alkoth is yet another story, and possibly rather different from the Dara Happa we normally envision, especially emerging from the Dome into the Greater Darkness and the Gray Age.

 

1 hour ago, None said:

Of course that leaves me in a position where I'd want to play through the Greater Darkness and I'm not sure how to do that considering the Dara Happans spent the entirety of that time huddled together in their cities inside a glazier. I'm assuming that they still had their share of Chaos troubles but probable less so that most others. So internal social politicking?

The bunker time of Dara Happa under Emperor Marlarvus "the Roofer" began as a countermeasure against the advancing glacier rather than against Chaos. The dome protects the remaining Tripolis of Anaxial's originally seven cities from the ice, and makes the Dara Happans miss the first incursion of the Chaos Horde led into the world by Wakboth, on their way to the Spike. The Spike implodes while the dome still is intact, but the subsequent horrors of the Greater Darkness find the dome broken open, and survivors fleeing into Manimat's hill forts of Darjiin or hiding elsewhere.

Politicking in Anaxial's now mortal Dara Happa might be rather unspectacular outside of succession episodes. Kestinendos and Manimat might be exceptions, with the Murharzarmic/Anaxialian lineages going into opposition against the foreigners.

1 hour ago, None said:

Of course there is also the fact that Yelm probably was quite unavailable during that time which should have serious consequences for the nobility. Could they even initiate into Yelm at that time? Or had they to make do with a diminished form of Yelm or one of his sons (such as their equivalent of Yelmalio)?

Each of the cities had its own orb, one of the sons or grandsons of Yelm (Raibamus and Alkor/Shargash), plus there was Antirius, the Cold Sun that remained high above the Footstool (possibly in the direction of ancient Yuthubars, slightly to the northwest). as the Darkness proceeded, Antirius kept losing height, until he fit under Manarlarvus's dome. In the meantime, Reladivus-Kargzant-Lightfore was the wandering Yelmalio who went and helped mortals, apparently starting his wanderings even before his city of Nivorah was destroyed. (Or maybe that was Yamsur?)

Unlike Yelmalio/Kargzant Lightfore, the light of Antirius disappeared until the Dawn. With the Bridling of Kargzant, uniting Lightfore with the Day Star in or around 110 ST, the powers of urban Yelm re-awakened (Avivath discovers the Sunspear).

The Horse Warlords worship their ancestor Kargzant already in the Gray Age, and they (well, Jenarong) re-awaken the urban orb gods like Raibamus. (Not so sure about the Hyalorings under Vuranostum and his sons, but their loss led to the Bridling of Kargzant and the rise of urban Antirius.)

2 hours ago, None said:

I'd also wager that Yelm associate cults couldn't get access to runic power that he normally gives them access too.

The concept of Rune Magic as spells received from distant deities seems to be a result of the Great Compromise and the Theyalan worship methods. That doesn't mean that Jenarong and his son or Vuranostum did not have any Rune Magic, but that may have worked a little differently than RuneQuest. Likewise Avivath's Sunspear embodiment only starts in 110 S.T.

Dawn Age Peloria received the message of the Lightbringers after the awakenings by various horse warlords. Full acceptance of the Theyalan rune magic ways probably arrived with the Dara Happans joining the Dorastan God Project, or in the resulting Bright Empire.

2 hours ago, None said:

Also don't know how it would affect Dendara worshipers considering she was alive but followed Yelm into the underworld. Then we also have Erissa and Buserian cultists who locally probably didn't venture into the underworld with Orlanth but but did so as Chalana Arroy an Lhankor Mhy.

Black Dendara emerged from the Underworld, followed by her children Lokarnos and Veldara (who may or may not have been Lesilla, the blue moon goddess of Mernita), already inthe Storm Age/Lesser Darkness, but were returned to the Underworld (in the end, Shargash sent down all the celestials that had not gone there on their own, yet). Few people would be able to witness, and few of those would have survived in catatonic hiding. People in Alkoth survived as Underworld entities, embracing a demonic Underworld heritage that got grafted on their god in his battle against Umath.

2 hours ago, None said:

Of course, this assumes most Solar Deities weren't asleep like the Storm and Earth ones were. Come to think of it. The Troll Gods were very much awake during this time weren't they? What about  the water gods?

The Troll Gods were quite awake, but not necessarily active on the surface world - Kyger Litor sat in her Castle of Lead adjacent to Daka Fal's Court of the Dead, which connected to Bijiif's Ashen Realm.

Argan Argar really was Darkfore, the force of Darkness protecting the surface world much like the migratory Yelmalio/Lightfore did. Zorak Zoran rampaged throughout the Lesser and Greater Darkness, and possibly imploded with Shargash as the last gods of Death killed each other, arriving for the Ritual of the Web. Antirius probably was somehow present for that, not sure about Kargzant, though.

Magasta came to his prime only long after the Flood, with the implosion of the Spike. The end of the Flood had sent many sea gods off the inner surface, with only the rivers and Heler above maintaining a presence (and we all know that Heler got swallowed by blue dragons ever so often). Valind possibly froze up Heler, leaving only lesser demigod-grade incarnations to act with the Storm Brothers. Sky River Titan may have brought (a manifestation of) Heler back into the world, even through the Greater Darkness.

But Magasta and the rivers called in by Sky River Titan were guardians of the Underworld as much as of the Surface world, fighting the ongoing siege of the Chaos Rift. They may have lent powers or lesser manifestations, but not necessary Rune magic.

Orlanth drinking from the Well of Daliath is a myth of the Greater Darkness, with the Spike necessarily imploded. Likewise Brastalos filling up the vacuum results there.

2 hours ago, None said:

I would like to play through a part of the Greater darkness though. It should be be possible to make that an interesting and turbulent time for the Dara Happans but they just had to hunker down inside a huge block of ice until everything resolved itself (due to Yelm's prayer naturally 😀). Leaving me a little stumped.

They miss out the combat against the ice demons, after losing to them badly in the initial contacts. They miss out on the Spike imploding. Some events later, the Iron Ram gets ripped off their dome, exposing the Chaos-devastated corridor through Valind's Glacier and nameless horrors descending on the survivors. Dramatic enough? Manimat creates the hilltop fortresses in Darjiin, Alkoth retreats into the Underworld, small groups of individuals find other loopholes to hide in until either the Only Old One's trolls or Jenarong's horse warlords discover them and enslave them. Darjiin (where the Manimati hid) gets the Hyaloringsas overlords in the Gray Age, who take over Dara Happa shortly after the Dawn as possibly the last "good emperor" using Jenarong's rites in sedentary Dara Happan history, as written by Plentonius and others.

Argan Argar overcomes his Chaos Foe Braznofstel at Morbode, an otherwise undisclosed location in Peloria. This might be a good event for your Dara Happans. (After all, Argan Argar has celestial ancestry...)

[mfbrandi]

On 9/29/2024 at 12:29 PM, None said:

[S]ome of the players characters from that time become the kind of icons that end up as subcults that their descendants can initiate into … Of course that leaves me in a position where I’d want to play through the Greater Darkness and I’m not sure how to do that

So you are basically setting up myths for the players to later tap for benefits?

• You could let the players drive the shape of the myths while you decide what future benefits can be derived from heroquesting them.
• You could let the players outline the benefits they are after in Time and then set the ancestors tasks in Myth that they will have to succeed at (play through successfully) if they are to later provide paths for their descendents to mine bennies.
• You could mix and match (and do other stuff).
• It is “time before Time” so you could play fast and loose with sequence — going “back” to fill in interesting bits suggested by “later” events you have already played through — and you could skip any boring bits.
• Best of all, you could ignore my stupid suggestions. 😉

[davecake]

I think playing out  a game like that sounds cool and interesting, but fundamentally not very well suited to the finely grained/crunchy nature of RuneQuest. Playing 75 years of Pendragon is a titanic undertaking, let alone thousands of years of myth and history. 

I'd be tempted to stick with the Noble family as campaign frame, maybe add a bit of Ars Magica style 'troupe play', and deal with the mythic through Valare Addi style Travel and Journey into the past. Like instead of the old Hero Wars clan questionnaire, have quests or flashbacks into the past scattered through the game. 

The old Mongoose rules for playing with organisations (I know, Mongoose evil, but these were pretty much entirely Loz and Pete rules) are worth a look for dealing with the family as a group entity, or you could use Drews 'attributes of a community' rules from SSiS/Company of the Dragon? 

I've always thought there is some great potential for Lunar/Solar Great House intrigue and Dart Competitions to get very enjoyably Dune-ish

[None]

On 9/29/2024 at 5:05 PM, Joerg said:

You could start in the Golden Age with the coronation of Murharhzarm or possibly him delegating the taming of the Oslir river to Lodril's children with the river, and then taking the Ten Tests, but it might make more sense to start with the founding of Yuthuppa and possibly the resettlement or set-up of Anaxial's other six cities after the Flood, especially if you want to use Yuthuppa rather than Raibanth. Alkoth is yet another story, and possibly rather different from the Dara Happa we normally envision, especially emerging from the Dome into the Greater Darkness and the Gray Age.

While I certainly wouldn't want to omit Alkoth considering what happens there I do not think I want the players based in Alkoth for the very same reason.

The coronation of Murharhzarm and something iconic like the taming of Oslira would be nice to include at the beginning but it is true I would like to have most of the Golden Age part of the campaign take part in a period when more of Dara Happa's cities exist instead of just the one.

That is unless I misremember because I'm fairly certain that at the time of Murharhzarm's coronation Dara Happa was literally just one city. Fortunately the absence of both Time and Death opens up possibilities that wouldn't be feasible within Time.

Then of course there's also the Storm Age which should be quite tumultuous for the Dara Happan's. Actually. Did the Orlanthi and Dara Happpan's clash a lot during the time (and the period right before Yelm's death)? I would like to think since the Orlanthi where literally living their high life doing whatever they wanted after Orlanth's victory but at the same time the Dara Happan's and at least most of the Orlanthi do live a fair bit apart.

Although I imagine the Orlanthi spread like *ahem* cockroaches at the time.

On 9/29/2024 at 5:05 PM, Joerg said:

Each of the cities had its own orb, one of the sons or grandsons of Yelm (Raibamus and Alkor/Shargash), plus there was Antirius, the Cold Sun that remained high above the Footstool (possibly in the direction of ancient Yuthubars, slightly to the northwest). as the Darkness proceeded, Antirius kept losing height, until he fit under Manarlarvus's dome. In the meantime, Reladivus-Kargzant-Lightfore was the wandering Yelmalio who went and helped mortals, apparently starting his wanderings even before his city of Nivorah was destroyed. (Or maybe that was Yamsur?)

Unlike Yelmalio/Kargzant Lightfore, the light of Antirius disappeared until the Dawn. With the Bridling of Kargzant, uniting Lightfore with the Day Star in or around 110 ST, the powers of urban Yelm re-awakened (Avivath discovers the Sunspear).

The Horse Warlords worship their ancestor Kargzant already in the Gray Age, and they (well, Jenarong) re-awaken the urban orb gods like Raibamus. (Not so sure about the Hyalorings under Vuranostum and his sons, but their loss led to the Bridling of Kargzant and the rise of urban Antirius.)

Orbs? Are we talking literal orbs placed within each city or just mini suns in the sky?

What I'm taking away from this is that Daara Happans (and most/all other Sun worshippers) had to make do with whatever extremely limited Yelmic power they could access via his sons and grandsons after his death and even they were slowly growing weaker as the Greater Darkness progressed. Up until the point when Yelm return and  solar power pretty much exploded back. Probably preceded by a period when there where literally no solar power yo go around.

On 9/29/2024 at 5:05 PM, Joerg said:

The concept of Rune Magic as spells received from distant deities seems to be a result of the Great Compromise and the Theyalan worship methods. That doesn't mean that Jenarong and his son or Vuranostum did not have any Rune Magic, but that may have worked a little differently than RuneQuest. Likewise Avivath's Sunspear embodiment only starts in 110 S.T.

Dawn Age Peloria received the message of the Lightbringers after the awakenings by various horse warlords. Full acceptance of the Theyalan rune magic ways probably arrived with the Dara Happans joining the Dorastan God Project, or in the resulting Bright Empire.

Hmm. I guess I could just make the Rune Magic system more accessible and accomodating to thowards the players during the Before Time and during the Golden Age especially?

It makes sense that magic would work differently during this period but I'd rather not design entirely new magic mechanics either... Thinking about it I'd probably go with something like making rune points slowly replenish themselves. Make it possible to replace what rune powers you have in some way, maybe  ease up on the whole sacrifice POW for new rune powers and rune points bit and probably increase the mount of magic points everyone has.  Probably increase the amount of spirit magic everyone can have too... .

Aside from that I'm not sure. Even that would probably unbalance the game in some way but it should go a fair bit to making things feel different and magic a something that is closer and less difficult to reach.

On 9/29/2024 at 5:05 PM, Joerg said:

Black Dendara emerged from the Underworld, followed by her children Lokarnos and Veldara (who may or may not have been Lesilla, the blue moon goddess of Mernita), already inthe Storm Age/Lesser Darkness, but were returned to the Underworld (in the end, Shargash sent down all the celestials that had not gone there on their own, yet).

Black Dendara is kind of a conundrum to me. Essentially she is the (warped?) Dendara that existed while Derndara (the normal one) was in the underworld?

On 9/29/2024 at 5:05 PM, Joerg said:

They miss out the combat against the ice demons, after losing to them badly in the initial contacts. They miss out on the Spike imploding. Some events later, the Iron Ram gets ripped off their dome, exposing the Chaos-devastated corridor through Valind's Glacier and nameless horrors descending on the survivors. Dramatic enough? Manimat creates the hilltop fortresses in Darjiin, Alkoth retreats into the Underworld, small groups of individuals find other loopholes to hide in until either the Only Old One's trolls or Jenarong's horse warlords discover them and enslave them. Darjiin (where the Manimati hid) gets the Hyaloringsas overlords in the Gray Age, who take over Dara Happa shortly after the Dawn as possibly the last "good emperor" using Jenarong's rites in sedentary Dara Happan history, as written by Plentonius and others.

Argan Argar overcomes his Chaos Foe Braznofstel at Morbode, an otherwise undisclosed location in Peloria. This might be a good event for your Dara Happans. (After all, Argan Argar has celestial ancestry...)

Ah, so their bunker strategy only worked so far and when it fail things got very dramatic for them very fast. Yes, that should be possible to work with.

As for Argan Argar. Making it possible for a player character or two to forge a connection with Argan Argar is kind of interesting if a bit odd for a solar. Could you tell me more about Argan Argar's celestial ancestry?

 

On 9/30/2024 at 11:35 PM, mfbrandi said:

So you are basically setting up myths for the players to later tap for benefits?

• You could let the players drive the shape of the myths while you decide what future benefits can be derived from heroquesting them.
• You could let the players outline the benefits they are after in Time and then set the ancestors tasks in Myth that they will have to succeed at (play through successfully) if they are to later provide paths for their descendents to mine bennies.
• You could mix and match (and do other stuff).
• It is “time before Time” so you could play fast and loose with sequence — going “back” to fill in interesting bits suggested by “later” events you have already played through — and you could skip any boring bits.
• Best of all, you could ignore my stupid suggestions. 😉

Yes. Basically. Not the only point in playing in the Golden Age but definitely something I'd want to make use of. As for your suggestions. I think they were pretty good. Personally I'd lean more towards the 'let the players drive the shape of the myths while you decide what future benefits can be derived from them later' side but yes. Some input from the player about their intentions and what they wish to achieve with their actions are always good.

A really great payoff would be if it'd be possible to later scrounge up some unexpected benefit from their Gopledn Age actions that no one even thought about at the time. 😄

4 hours ago, davecake said:

think playing out  a game like that sounds cool and interesting, but fundamentally not very well suited to the finely grained/crunchy nature of RuneQuest. Playing 75 years of Pendragon is a titanic undertaking, let alone thousands of years of myth and history. 

Yes. That is one of the things that has been worrying me. Still want to give it a try though. Also just because its thousands of years of myth and history doesn't mean you ave to be there every step of the way.

4 hours ago, davecake said:

I'd be tempted to stick with the Noble family as campaign frame,

I do plan to have the entire campaign revolve around one player Noble House or Family as kind of the thread that binds the story together.

4 hours ago, davecake said:

I've always thought there is some great potential for Lunar/Solar Great House intrigue and Dart Competitions to get very enjoyably Dune-ish

Partly because of this but also because I think it fits the Solar theme very well. I haven't read Dune though but I do know a little about it.

4 hours ago, davecake said:

Like instead of the old Hero Wars clan questionnaire, have quests or flashbacks into the past scattered through the game.

That is an option instead of going through it all chronologically (as much as chronological is a thing Before Time) and not entirely uninteresting but I also like the idea of having the players build the rewards and sometimes limitations in the early game that they then have to live with in the late game.

Something that works very well with the whole Before and After Time bit.

Also

4 hours ago, davecake said:

Dart Competitions

Could someone explain the Dart Competitions to me and why they are such a thing in Dara Happa?

Edited October 2 by None

[Joerg]

On 10/2/2024 at 3:03 PM, None said:

The coronation of Murharhzarm and something iconic like the taming of Oslira would be nice to include at the beginning but it is true I would like to have most of the Golden Age part of the campaign take part in a period when more of Dara Happa's cities exist instead of just the one.

Before Murharzam, there was Deipolis (Yuthubars) and the Four Camps. Murharzarm introduces the Decapolis, with two cities in the center (near - Raibanth and far - Yuthubars) and the four cardinal directions, lining up five cities along the Oslir axis, from south to North Nivorah, Alkoth, Raibanth, Mernita and Verapur. No Yuthuppa yet, obviously, as that is built after the Flood. East also means Above, and West also means Below, which makes those cities a bit troublesome to map.

On 10/2/2024 at 3:03 PM, None said:

Then of course there's also the Storm Age which should be quite tumultuous for the Dara Happan's. Actually. Did the Orlanthi and Dara Happpan's clash a lot during the time (and the period right before Yelm's death)? I would like to think since the Orlanthi where literally living their high life doing whatever they wanted after Orlanth's victory but at the same time the Dara Happan's and at least most of the Orlanthi do live a fair bit apart.

Orlanth comes into being with the Chaining / Dismemberment of Umath. Yes, there are pastoralist hill people raiding sedentary farmers. Whether these are already the Orlanthi you know is another question. Dara Happan reports of the Ram People start after the Flood, corresponding to the Vingkotling era. The fall of Elempur might be cognate to the raid of the four sons of Vingkot to decide which one would inherit kingship, the victory of Urvairinus might be the destruction of the Lastralgortelli.

 

On 10/2/2024 at 3:03 PM, None said:

Orbs? Are we talking literal orbs placed within each city or just mini suns in the sky?

IMG mini suns in the sky, hovering above the ziggurats. The first time I came across that concept was the RQ3 Genertela box.

 

On 10/2/2024 at 3:03 PM, None said:

What I'm taking away from this is that Daara Happans (and most/all other Sun worshippers) had to make do with whatever extremely limited Yelmic power they could access via his sons and grandsons after his death and even they were slowly growing weaker as the Greater Darkness progressed. Up until the point when Yelm return and  solar power pretty much exploded back. Probably preceded by a period when there where literally no solar power yo go around.

This local sun certainly corroborates how Antirius was included inside the Dome under Manarlarvus.

On 10/2/2024 at 3:03 PM, None said:

Hmm. I guess I could just make the Rune Magic system more accessible and accomodating to thowards the players during the Before Time and during the Golden Age especially?

It makes sense that magic would work differently during this period but I'd rather not design entirely new magic mechanics either... Thinking about it I'd probably go with something like making rune points slowly replenish themselves. Make it possible to replace what rune powers you have in some way, maybe  ease up on the whole sacrifice POW for new rune powers and rune points bit and probably increase the mount of magic points everyone has.  Probably increase the amount of spirit magic everyone can have too... .

Aside from that I'm not sure. Even that would probably unbalance the game in some way but it should go a fair bit to making things feel different and magic a something that is closer and less difficult to reach.

WIth the gods still around, one way to play this would be you just ask the deity to do their stuff in their presence.

However, that breaks the tenet of "Sorcery is what you know, Animism is what you have and Theism is what you are." That's pretty much why I have shied away from placing RuneQuest in Godtime. Much less a problem with HeroQuest/Questworlds.

[None]

2 hours ago, Joerg said:

Orlanth comes into being with the Chaining / Dismemberment of Umath. Yes, there are pastoralist hill people raiding sedentary farmers. Whether these are already the Orlanthi you know is another question. Dara Happan reports of the Ram People start after the Flood, corresponding to the Vingkotling era. The fall of Elempur might be cognate to the raid of the four sons of Vingkot to decide which one would inherit kingship, the victory of Urvairinus might be the destruction of the Lastralgortelli.

I'm reading this as Dara Happa conflicts with the Olanthi dind't really begin until Orlanth killed Yelm and they began to, well, use they world as their personal sandbox. It works pretty well from a narrative standpoint with things growing more dire for the players and introducing new challenges and dangers for the players at the same time.

2 hours ago, Joerg said:

WIth the gods still around, one way to play this would be you just ask the deity to do their stuff in their presence.

However, that breaks the tenet of "Sorcery is what you know, Animism is what you have and Theism is what you are." That's pretty much why I have shied away from placing RuneQuest in Godtime. Much less a problem with HeroQuest/Questworlds.

Yes, I quickly understood I just had to accept that the mechanics wouldn't line up perfectly with the fluff and that I'd just had to make do with what I could. One thing that shouldn't be too unfeasible would be to deicide that since everyone is outside time (due to it not existing) and separation the Other world and Mortal world is pretty much non-existent or at leat extremely thin theists are always in a state of let's call it Pseoudo Heroquesting.

Not that anyone would call it that or think of it like that but that's beside the point.

The point is that it should be possible to say that action and feats normally only possible through Heroquesting for those living inside time are always possible to at least some degree during the Golden Age (and Probably the Green and Storm Age too). All you have to do is be Initiated (or whatever the equivalent would be during those periods) and your always Heroquesting as that god to some degree.

Then just use the character's Devotion (deity), appropriate Rune Affinity/Affinities or Cult Lore as the basis for the characters ability to perform such feats. (You probably want to at least sometimes apply a rune point or magic point cost too but I'm assuming what you always do for fantastic actions within Heroquests anyway.)

[davecake]

On 10/2/2024 at 9:03 PM, None said:

Could someone explain the Dart Competitions to me and why they are such a thing in Dara Happa?

They may not be relevant to most of your game - they are a historical custom of the late Lunar Empire. The best information is the Glorantha Sourcebook pg 182-3.

Essentially, the Empire has become ruled by multiple 'Great Houses', all descended from Lunar heroes and such (usually the Empire himself), and generally intermarried with the old Yelmic houses too (and the Emperor counts as an incarnation of Yelm of course). These houses compete for power by any means at their disposal. The Emperor forbids any form of actual warfare, so violence must be constrained in its scale and targets, and is usually clandestine. After a 'misthrow' in a game of darts was used for assassination, they have been known as Dart Competitions, but actually involve assassinations, sabotage, disinformation, economic competition, intrigue such as bribery and subversion, public proxy combats (such as gladiatorial displays, ritual combats, etc), duels, and also incredible ritual magic acts. They are insanely expensive, with huge amounts of cash usually spent on incredibly elite agents and resources, both foreign mercenaries and domestic agents. 

They are seen as a way that the elite of the Empire can hone their skills and remain dangerous, without allowing the Empire to be weakened by dissent and war, and so officially encouraged. Often the control of satrapies changes via Dart Competitions. And occasionally an incarnation of the Emperor dies. 

And to ensure they do not get out of hand, the Red Emperor has created the Tax Demons, who enforce the rules of the Dart Competitions, particularly against houses that cause disruption to the income of the Empire. Though it turns out the Eel-Ariash at least seem to be immune to them. Oops! 

[None]

2 hours ago, davecake said:

They may not be relevant to most of your game - they are a historical custom of the late Lunar Empire. The best information is the Glorantha Sourcebook pg 182-3.

Essentially, the Empire has become ruled by multiple 'Great Houses', all descended from Lunar heroes and such (usually the Empire himself), and generally intermarried with the old Yelmic houses too (and the Emperor counts as an incarnation of Yelm of course). These houses compete for power by any means at their disposal. The Emperor forbids any form of actual warfare, so violence must be constrained in its scale and targets, and is usually clandestine.

So actual internal warfare was permitted in Dara Happa before the Lunars?

[Eff]

1 hour ago, None said:

So actual internal warfare was permitted in Dara Happa before the Lunars?

Dara Happa was only rarely politically unified before the Lunars, and most of those political unions seem fairly loose in terms of central control. See The Fortunate Succession, unless it's been rendered specifically anticanonical, for a fuller history there. 

[radmonger]

2 hours ago, None said:

So actual internal warfare was permitted in Dara Happa before the Lunars?

I think opne key to understanding the Yelmic mindset is that, while such warfare happened, it was never permitted. And the latter was the really important thing. The ideal is not weakened by realities failure to follow it.

[Nick Brooke]

2 hours ago, None said:

So actual internal warfare was permitted in Dara Happa before the Lunars?

U wot m8? Explain your reasoning.

[None]

2 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

U wot m8? Explain your reasoning.

Um, what? I was asking a question so I don't really understand what you mean.

If Dart Competitions (as a way of assassination when ... playing dartboard) are a Luner thing that appeared because the Red Emperor forbid warfare among the nobility. Then warfare among the nobility must either have been permitted or tolerated beforehand. Unless there was some other form of subtler 'warfare' that was popular before the Lunar Empire but unfeasible after.

So I asked weather warfare between the Dara Happan Cities and noble families permitted back then or not.

Does that answer your question?

[jajagappa]

5 hours ago, None said:

So actual internal warfare was permitted in Dara Happa before the Lunars?

Of course not. That would be Rebellion, and Rebellion is abhorent to the Emperor. In those cases, you send out the regiments (and Shargash if necessary) and destroy/banish the Rebels. The Empire is once again at peace.

Similarly, the Red Emperor is the Emperor. If you're not obeying him, you're a Rebel, and must be destroyed/banished. Dart Wars are acceptable because they are not challenging the Grand Order, but that concept seems new with the Lunar Empire.

[jajagappa]

3 minutes ago, None said:

So I asked weather warfare between the Dara Happan Cities and noble families permitted back then or not.

No, not permitted. But if you read the Fortunate Succession, you get a picture that there are periods of stability and peace, and periods of war and rebellion (as one would expect).

Here's two examples quoted from that work:

Helemshal was a strong emperor, who did not marry too early, and enjoyed the guidance of wise councilors. Under his guidance the great general Casatokum was sent to attack the nomads in their homelands, and led a great army of cavalry from all across the Empire. They plundered enemy herds and captured many slaves for years before they retired to the Empire. [Casatokum was later executed for treason.]

Desikanir had difficult opposition to become Emperor, yet he alone completed the Ten Tests. Nonetheless, after the ceremony the lords of the Empire fought upon the very Tower of Enthronement. The Empire declined quickly. It broke into three parts. Part went to join the Spolite heresy. The north revolted, and with nearby territories formed the land of Althil in order to fight the nomads together. The southern part called Terarir formed its own independent land, allied with Darjiin, to fight against the dragons of Saird. This left only the great city of Raibanth and its territory of Vonlath.

I think you'll see the overall gist. There's 1200+ years pre-Lunar Empire and within the DH Empire waxed and waned several times.