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Best BRP-type game for Not Super Crunchy but Could Be Used for WFRP or Colonial Gothic or 30 Years War?


Archivist

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Looking for an alternative to WFRP 4e that is d100. Ideas I've had.

Renaissance d100/Clockwork and Chivalry, etc.: not sure if the magic system is robust enough for PCs. Not sure where I'd get creatures from or how I'd make my own.

Mythras: outside my crunch comfort.

OpenQuest: not sure if bestiary is big enough for what I'd need. Not sure how to make it work for that time period.

CoC 7e: cool, but would somehow need to hack in a magic system and figure out how to make creatures.

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1 hour ago, Archivist said:

Looking for an alternative to WFRP 4e that is d100. Ideas I've had.

Renaissance d100/Clockwork and Chivalry, etc.: not sure if the magic system is robust enough for PCs. Not sure where I'd get creatures from or how I'd make my own.

Mythras: outside my crunch comfort.

OpenQuest: not sure if bestiary is big enough for what I'd need. Not sure how to make it work for that time period.

CoC 7e: cool, but would somehow need to hack in a magic system and figure out how to make creatures.

Are you after a specific magic system and specific creatures? CoC 7e has a magic system and an extensive grimoire but allegedly not what you are after. The Monstrorum has many, traditional creatures.

Magic World could also fit the bill. It has magic and a bestiary.

RuneQuest could also be reskinned with a bit of effort but it might too crunchy for your taste.

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OK, it depends on just how Warhammer-riffic you want to get with it.

For a relatively simple Colonial Horror type game, you can file off the names on a couple of Cthulhu titles. The Blood Tide monograph for BRP [link below] deals with the Golden Age of Piracy [roughly 1600 and 1720 or so], and you'll be able to find info on black powder muzzle-loaders [matchlocks, wheelocks and flintlocks] and cannon there. For a little later period take a look at Devil's Gulch, the Wild West version of same [percussion cap and fixed cartridge arms]... now with more Gatling guns! ūüėÜ

Both supplements deal with limited magic in keeping with the setting... Blood Tide deals with voudoun and sea curses and Devil's Gulch is a bit more Gothic, with hex-masters, Devil-winds, and Native American Wendigos. With either one, you can expand the Magic effects with the systems in the BRP Yellow Book.

HOWEVER, if you're looking for more Tzeench and Nurgle cultist type stuff, you're probably gonna have to mod that yourself. There is a large body of work in RuneQuest dealing with Chaos and corruption, so that should be a snap. Besides, EVERY fantasy party should go up against a Cult of Thanatar at least once... just to put them in their place....

 

[link to Chaosium page on Blood Tides]

https://www.chaosium.com/blood-tide-pdf-and-ebook/

Edited by svensson
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10 hours ago, Archivist said:

OpenQuest: not sure if bestiary is big enough for what I'd need

Honestly, that should not be a huge problem, as it's very easy to import any creature from any BRP game in OQ.

I'd give a vote to Revolution D100, as I think it has a very robust magic/powers system, and can be tailored to your tastes in terms of rules crunch. Just avoid the most complex combat rules. Its major problem is that it's a toolbox, and it's sometimes not easy to understand how to use the game simply...

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For WFRP, I would go BRP Classic Fantasy and make a table for spell fumbles and steal the firearms from Renaissance D100.

https://www.chaosium.com/classic-fantasy-pdf/

As for the creatures, WFRP shares a lot of similarity with D&D so I would use 3.5e stats and convert them to BRP.

 

Edited by KPhan2121
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You like Fading Suns? Well, I made a thing that's kinda like it!

 

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1 hour ago, Archivist said:

Thanks all. I probably think there's more of a difference between these systems then there really is. e.g., a monster from BRP or Mythras or RQ or whatever would be mostly interchangeable (other than hit locations).

There are some significant differences, but for the most part they don't really affect characteristic and skill scores, so most NPCs, animals, creatures, and things can be easily ported over from one game system to another. . The game stats are fairly consist between systems too, so whatever values you get tend to be in the right ballpark. For instance Horses in most BRP games have an average of 32, 28 in some of the more recent games. Still "close enough" to work. I've ported over some monsters from Myhras Rome to Pendragon, systems with lots of differences. For the most part it's pretty easy too, attributes are mostly the same, armor values usually need to be doubled, damage values adapted to the method used in Pendragon, skill converted from percentile to a 1-20 scale (divide by 5), and possibly bumped up a little. That's about it.   

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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1 hour ago, Archivist said:

Thanks all. I probably think there's more of a difference between these systems then there really is. e.g., a monster from BRP or Mythras or RQ or whatever would be mostly interchangeable (other than hit locations).

You should be aware that MRQ, OQ Legend and Mythras damage values are usually slightly lower than in Chaosium games.

For instance, a broadsword deals 1d8+1 +db in RQ, StormBringer, etc. whereas it deals 1d8+db in Mythras.

And db is also lower, usually d2 or d4 instead of d4 and d6.

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Lots of good suggestions here. A lot depends on what parts of Warhammer you want to emphasize, how close you want to hew to the original in terms of magic details, and how much the PCs will be using said magic. 

While you said Mythras was outside your crunch zone, given the subject matter, you might still consider Mongoose's Deus Vult line as part of your toolkit. It's very much aiming for unravelling occult conspiracies in mostly-low-fantasy Europa Noir, so it might well make for an easy fit for The Old World. Adjust magic to taste, and you'd be in good shape.

Whatever you choose for a foundation, you'll probably still want to pick & choose bits from elsewhere to taste, but making that a "get-to" rather than a "have-to" is part of what's nice about BRP. I like Revolution D100's modern design flourishes, RQG importing augments from HeroQuest, Mythras's fighting-style skills, and Stormbringer's Pendragon-esque Major Wound approach in place of hit-locations. It's a good problem to have. 

(Left field suggestion: (Rolemaster Classic or Against the Darkmaster) + the black powder firearms tables from from 10 Million Ways to Die. Nothing does bleeding out in the gutter like those RM crit tables.)

Edited by JonL
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5 minutes ago, Archivist said:

Yes lots to pick from. Imperative isn't outside my crunch range maybe. 

Also, the question is how much effort will conversion / improv be? 

Is Stormbringer's approach in any published PDF I could buy? It's long out of prin.

Magic World is largely Stormbringer-minus-the-Moorcock-IP, though I don't have it myself to look at it's injury rules as such. OTOH, the PDF is $3 so it wouldn't be¬†hard to try on for size. ūüôā¬†

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4 minutes ago, JonL said:

Magic World is largely Stormbringer-minus-the-Moorcock-IP, though I don't have it myself to look at it's injury rules as such. OTOH, the PDF is $3 so it wouldn't be¬†hard to try on for size. ūüôā¬†

Yeah for $3 it's tough to top. The BRP BGB is nice too, as it collects most of the optional and variant rules created by Chaosium over the years into one book, and is probably the goto book for those who want to customize the suystem for a given setting, but Magic World/Strombringer might be the best fit for a Warhammer style game.

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Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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I've used BRP for:

- A Space:1889 steampunk game

- A WWI 'horror-lite' scenario

- A fantasy game without the runes of RuneQuest

The only time BRP has broken down for me was trying to play a Twilight: 2000 game with a table full of veterans and gun nuts. Just like it's counterpart GURPS, unless you want to write a sourcebook on trivial ephemera and ballistics tables, you have to kind of accept certain arguments at the table between so-called 'experts'. When some guy pulls out a copy of a training manual on a given piece of equipment, your game has slid entirely off the rails ūüėĀ But that's literally the only time it hasn't worked.

The one thing you have to be careful with in d100 games is warning the players just how deadly combat is. BRP combat is not to be entered into without your complete attention and preparation because any stupid 'goblin' has a 5% chance of killing you outright every single round.

[That works out as: 20% of skill level chance to impale with a short spear, 10% chance to hit 'Head' location (if used), either double damage - armor points (if just an impale) or full damage w/ no armor (if a crit), damage 2d6+2 (if doubled) or 7 (if critical hit)]

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4 hours ago, svensson said:

The only time BRP has broken down for me was trying to play a Twilight: 2000 game with a table full of veterans and gun nuts. Just like it's counterpart GURPS, unless you want to write a sourcebook on trivial ephemera and ballistics tables, you have to kind of accept certain arguments at the table between so-called 'experts'. When some guy pulls out a copy of a training manual on a given piece of equipment, your game has slid entirely off the rails ūüėĀ

Oh, I see. OK. So, for our next session, are we converting to Phoenix Command or Friday Night Firefight?

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1 hour ago, JonL said:

Oh, I see. OK. So, for our next session, are we converting to Phoenix Command or Friday Night Firefight?

 

Well, that table broke up. Thank goodness. I think all they wanted to do was argue anyway.

 

1 hour ago, SDLeary said:

For Twilight: 2000 or Traveller 2300, another option might be Delta Green. Handles firearms better.

SDLeary

 

 

I have some DG materials now, back then I didn't. And yeah, it would be my go-to if I were to do that again. But then, I backed the T2K4e kickstarter, so I'll probably use that instead ūüėĀ

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7 hours ago, svensson said:

The only time BRP has broken down for me was trying to play a Twilight: 2000 game with a table full of veterans and gun nuts. Just like it's counterpart GURPS, unless you want to write a sourcebook on trivial ephemera and ballistics tables, you have to kind of accept certain arguments at the table between so-called 'experts'. When some guy pulls out a copy of a training manual on a given piece of equipment, your game has slid entirely off the rails ūüėĀ But that's literally the only time it hasn't worked.

That reminds me of some supplement my friend bought when we were teens... Guns, guns, guns, I think it was called. He was a hunter and knew about guns, so suddenly we were designing "realistic" weapons for our Twilight 2000 and other games with these complex charts and formulas... It was supposed to be compatible with pretty much any RPG system and time period. I wonder if anyone has tried it with BRP...(?)

Found it. Apparently, it first appeared in 1991... So... We would have been in our VERY late teens at that point... ūüėõ

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns!_Guns!_Guns!

Edited by Susimetsa
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45 minutes ago, Susimetsa said:

That reminds me of some supplement my friend bought when we were teens... Guns, guns, guns, I think it was called. He was a hunter and knew about guns, so suddenly we were designing "realistic" weapons for our Twilight 2000 and other games with these complex charts and formulas... It was supposed to be compatible with pretty much any RPG system and time period. I wonder if anyone has tried it with BRP...(?)

Found it. Apparently, it first appeared in 1991... So... We would have been in our VERY late teens at that point... ūüėõ

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns!_Guns!_Guns!

 

Gods! I think I bought that one too about a million years ago!

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2 hours ago, SDLeary said:

For Twilight: 2000 or Traveller 2300, another option might be Delta Green. Handles firearms better.

For a BRP like take on WFRP, I'd still start with Renaissance, and then pick and choose other bits from there. 

SDLeary

 

 
 

Yes Renaissance will give you that 17th cent vibe in BRP including black powder weapons. If you want to tweak the magic after that, go nuts. Blood Tide also deserves an honourable mention, though that is more focused on Pirates of the Caribbean themed campaigns.

Also if you aren't limiting yourself to BRP but want a WFRP alternative you could check out Warlock! by Fire Ruby games. It has the careers and d100-like skills, plus its own magic system that you could investigate for your needs.

The link for the bundle of holding has expired but here it is on Drive Thru RPG https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/312204/Warlock

Edited by Questbird
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16 hours ago, JonL said:

Magic World is largely Stormbringer-minus-the-Moorcock-IP, though I don't have it myself to look at it's injury rules as such. OTOH, the PDF is $3 so it wouldn't be¬†hard to try on for size. ūüôā¬†

Minor nitpick : MW is based on StormBringer 5th edition, and Elric!, which are both quite different from older SB games.

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16 hours ago, SDLeary said:

For Twilight: 2000 or Traveller 2300, another option might be Delta Green. Handles firearms better.

The two Investigator Weapons books for CoC also would help quite a bit, especially the one for modern weapons. They have some optional rules for adjusting rate of fire, reflex sights, combat tactics and other minutia. Just the sort of stuff you'd want for a military or special ops game.

 

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Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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2 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

The two Investigator Weapons books for CoC also would help quite a bit, especially the one for modern weapons. They have some optional rules for adjusting rate of fire, reflex sights, combat tactics and other minutia. Just the sort of stuff you'd want for a military or special ops game.

 

And that would pair up with Delta Green pretty well too.

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On 10/17/2021 at 8:57 AM, Archivist said:

Thanks all. I probably think there's more of a difference between these systems then there really is. e.g., a monster from BRP or Mythras or RQ or whatever would be mostly interchangeable (other than hit locations).

This.
100%

The BRP family of games is -- in play, at the table -- largely inter-compatible.

There are branchings at Newt's OQ-derived games (which I think includes Rennaisance?), and at the Nash/Whitaker (MRQ2/Legend/RQ6/Mythras), and minor variations/customizations within each branch (including among pure-Chaosium games), but mostly those differences are invisible from the other side of the GM-screen.  Use *ANY* monster, from *ANY* of the different games... and your players will never notice anything amiss.

Additionally, you can pretty much import the different magic-systems wholesale from one into another (sometimes you might need a bit more than "just" the magic systems, such as RQG's new Rune-Magic driven by Rune scores on the character-sheet, Cults, etc).

So, pick the game-chassis of your choice, then add (or remove) subsystems to taste, until you get the FrankenBRP of your dreams...  Just like we've been doing for DECADES now.  Really, the BRP engine is remarkably adaptable and robust!

If I were doing this project, I'd be choosing between:
 Renaissance / Clockwork&Chivalry - I think the "feel" of the world, the fluff/etc, is closest.  I think this means it'd be the least work.
 Magic World - A nice clean BRP engine; a good basis to add onto
 BRP Quickstart - the PDF freebie from Chaosium; even leaner and more-stripped-down than MW.  BONUS:  a suite of mini-scenarios at the back, in a range of different genres, to help you see how to hit your own sweet-spot.
Mythras Imperative - The low-crunch Quickstart for Mythras.  Mythras has a lot of interesting "crunch" to add on a strictly as-needed basis, and MI gives you the best basic chassis to do that.

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