Serious insult to an orlanthi

[Ironwall]

So my players recently gave a donkey with the moon rune painted on it head to lieka black spear as an insult. So I'm now wondering. The orlanthi seem to be a society that wouldn't take being insulted lightly are there any insults in Orlanthi society that WILL result in violence 

Edited January 9, 2022 by Ironwall

[Jeff]

2 minutes ago, Ironwall said:

So my players recently gave a donkey with the moon rune painted on it head to lieka black spear as an insult. So I'm now wondering. The orlanthi seem to be a society that wouldn't take being insulted lightly are there any insults in Orlanthi society that WILL result in violence 

Accusing someone of being dishonourable (cowardice in personal combat, killing or molesting prisoners, oath-breaking) is a VERY serious insult and could trigger a test of the Honor Passion. Similarly accusing someone of being tainted by Chaos is a pretty deadly insult.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

51 minutes ago, Ironwall said:

So my players recently gave a donkey with the moon rune painted on it head to lieka black spear as an insult. So I'm now wondering. The orlanthi seem to be a society that wouldn't take being insulted lightly are there any insults in Orlanthi society that WILL result in violence 

"Violence is always an Option".  So you never know for sure.

Someday when my character really wants to provoke a fight she will calmly argue the "for" side of the thesis that the other person enjoys carnal relations with goats.  Despised creatures associated with Chaos.   Luckily, hasn't come to that yet.

[Sir_Godspeed]

Something something goats.

[EricW]

Publicly accusing someone of being an illuminated Lunar spy would draw attention. Any illuminates in the audience would know you were lying (unless you weren't), but it would be unwise for an actual illuminate to let on how they knew for sure you were wrong. Letting Orlanth vindicate the honour of the accused through a duel would be a quick solution.

Edited January 9, 2022 by EricW

[soltakss]

"Typical, you are just like the <Rival Bloodline/Clan/Tribe/people>".

"All you Storm Folk are the same, Orlanth, Vadrus, Ragnaglar".

 

 

[Ludo Bagman]

1 hour ago, soltakss said:

"All you Storm Folk are the same, Orlanth, Vadrus, Ragnaglar".

 

 

That's an insult? It's just the truth.

[Sir_Godspeed]

It could be an interesting quirk to have insulting someone's foul-smelling breath be a big deal. Breath is the gift of Orlanth. Denigrating that is a big no-no unless you're all close family member or long-time friends.

I suppose insulting someone's perceived fertility could also be really serious. Telling a man or woman that they're not able to perform their matrimonal duties or carry on their lineage would probably be grounds for a beating. Family lines are serious things, even if the Orlanthi are otherwise pretty open about adopting a child, or marrying someone with children from a previous marriage and such. The main caveat here is that this can get a bit too real around a table: it's a RW issue that can be upsetting for players themselves. So sticking to oathbreaking, thievery, cowardice, etc. is probably safer.

[Alex]

13 hours ago, Ironwall said:

So my players recently gave a donkey with the moon rune painted on it head to lieka black spear as an insult. So I'm now wondering. The orlanthi seem to be a society that wouldn't take being insulted lightly are there any insults in Orlanthi society that WILL result in violence 

"Will" is a strong threshold.  "Your Will Will Vary."  As Rodney says, always an option, but remember the converse, that there's always another way.  One other way being, being the "bigger person"...  another other way being, coming up with a bigger insult in return.

What's a good generic insult been I think pretty well-covered, kudos posters.  Question their cultural virtues and compliance with social norms.  But if you really want to enrage someone, make it personal.  Tell some brazen lie about their dearest claim to fame, or say something that's a little too close to the bone about their generally known flaws.

I'm sure we're all aware, and is maybe even implicit in the question, the Orlanthi don't have a "sticks and stones" attitude to verbal insults versus physical force.  Or a even hard and fast legal distinction, in terms of one being a "criminal" matter, and the other a "civil" one.  If you're provoked into killing some cur for vilely calumniating you, and there's a subsequent suit, you might not merely argue that in mitigation, you might counter-claim for the offence against your honour, and assert that one tenth of your wergild is greater than the the full amount -- if correctly assessed! -- for their worthless hide: they owe you, stump up.

[Darius West]

On 1/9/2022 at 11:38 AM, Ironwall said:

The orlanthi seem to be a society that wouldn't take being insulted lightly are there any insults in Orlanthi society that WILL result in violence 

Orlanthi are a dueling culture.  Insults are settled on a field of honor.  Of course there is another way...  If you are sent a donkey with a moon rune on its head as an insult, you rise to the challenge and send them back a mule (larger infertile donkey) with a truth rune on its behind and an illusion rune on its head.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Darius West

[Ironwall]

11 hours ago, Darius West said:

  If you are sent a donkey with a moon rune on its head as an insult, you rise to the challenge and send them back a mule (larger infertile donkey) with a truth rune on its behind and an illusion rune on its head.

Definitely using this. 

[Joerg]

  

11 hours ago, Darius West said:

  If you are sent a donkey with a moon rune on its head as an insult, you rise to the challenge and send them back a mule (larger infertile donkey) with a truth rune on its behind and an illusion rune on its head.

 

You could offer to ransom it back to the gift givers at a chieftain's weregeld. Evidently, they sent their leader into captivity

[Ironwall]

4 hours ago, Joerg said:

You could offer to ransom it back to the gift givers at a chieftain's weregeld. Evidently, they sent their leader into captivity

damn this is getting good

 

[Leingod]

This question reminds me of one of the events from King of Dragon Pass: https://kingofdragonpass.fandom.com/wiki/Market_Insults

Quote

<X> complains that while he was a guest at the <Y clan> market, he was bullied, and insulted by a pair of their weaponthanes.  "They called us stickpickers, lichen eaters, and rag-wearers.  They said that our men are too friendly with our sheep because our women do not bear looking at.  They said that Chalana Arroy cries whenever we use the word 'mercy' and that Humakt spits whenver we say 'honor'."

The funniest and most memorable part of this event is that if one of the nobles on your Ring worships Chalana Arroy, they'll actually be so insulted that they have to catch themselves mid-sentence because they almost demand that you attack them in reprisal out of sheer outrage.

EDIT: Also, in Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes, it's mentioned at one point that an insult is much worse if it's delivered in verse, because of how highly the Orlanthi prize poetry. Calling an Orlanthi a coward is bad enough, but calling them a coward in verse is a mortal insult that demands a reply.

Edited January 16, 2022 by Leingod

[svensson]

There is a great deal of Orlanthi back story of people choosing to take offense when none is meant. The reasons for it are myriad. It could be that the offended party just wants to polish their reputation with a duel. It could be a subtle political insult that the transgressor has no idea about. Either way, it's not hard to offend an Orlanthi if you put the least bit of effort into it.

Imply a lack of honor or piety. That ought to do it. But be creative about it:

"Your Inner Wind stinks worse than Gargath's farts"

"You're so corrupt that the Lunars wouldn't have you."

"I came here seeking valiant and honorable people. I must have taken a wrong turn somewhere."

"Where are your warriors? All I see here are thralls and stick-pickers."

"You call this craftsmanship?! A trollkin could make better."

"You know, I have to give you credit. You don't look anything like the son of a Lunar temple girl like everyone says..."

[svensson]

1 hour ago, Leingod said:

This question reminds me of one of the events from King of Dragon Pass: https://kingofdragonpass.fandom.com/wiki/Market_Insults

The funniest and most memorable part of this event is that if one of the nobles on your Ring worships Chalana Arroy, they'll actually be so insulted that they have to catch themselves mid-sentence because they almost demand that you attack them in reprisal out of sheer outrage.

EDIT: Also, in Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes, it's mentioned at one point that an insult is much worse if it's delivered in verse, because of how highly the Orlanthi prize poetry. Calling an Orlanthi a coward is bad enough, but calling them a coward in verse is a mortal insult that demands a reply.

Remember, the most biting satire /sarcasm is direct, subtle, and true. And killing a bard for telling the truth is a Very Bad Thing in Orlanthi culture.

[Alex]

34 minutes ago, svensson said:

And killing a bard for telling the truth is a Very Bad Thing in Orlanthi culture.

Though I'm reminded of Natalie Haynes' Penelope musing to herself about whether to have assorted mendicant poets flogged...

[Ironwall]

On 1/16/2022 at 5:50 PM, svensson said:

Remember, the most biting satire /sarcasm is direct, subtle, and true.

Will take this to note. Will definitely have leika prepare a response. Along with a war party

[svensson]

1 hour ago, Ironwall said:

Will take this to note. Will definitely have leika prepare a response. Along with a war party

It may not necessarily need to be a war party.

Were the PC's emissaries from someone or acting on their own?

If they were acting on their own behalf, one of the PC's might just have a very fatal date in the dueling circle with Lady Nameless, champion of the Colymar and guardian of Queen Leika's person and honor.

Remember that Leika and her Ring are still new in power. While they have the full loyalty of the tribe behind them, they're also at war with the Lunar Empire. They're well aware that they have some fighting coming up and they may not want to waste trained thanes on a minor insult if a one-on-one duel will solve the problem just as easily.

Edited January 18, 2022 by svensson

[svensson]

On 1/10/2022 at 3:55 PM, Joerg said:

  

 

You could offer to ransom it back to the gift givers at a chieftain's weregeld. Evidently, they sent their leader into captivity

To quote Sir Derek Jacobi,

"Oh, that's elegantly vicious. I like it!'

[Ironwall]

23 hours ago, svensson said:

may not necessarily need to be a war party.

Were the PC's emissaries from someone or acting on their own?

If they were acting on their own behalf, one of the PC's might just have a very fatal date in the dueling circle with Lady Nameless, champion of the Colymar and guardian of Queen Leika's person and honor.

Remember that Leika and her Ring are still new in power. While they have the full loyalty of the tribe behind them, they're also at war with the Lunar Empire. They're well aware that they have some fighting coming up and they may not want to waste trained thanes on a minor insult if a one-on-one duel will solve the problem just as easily.

Edited 23 hours ago by svensson

Player actions have led to a different timeline from the canon glorantha so there ls a sartarite civil war brewing nothing has happened yet but everyone is gearing up. In steps an independent clan of 800ish people who insult a tribal king. I decided leika wanted to ensure nobody thought of her as weak so is sending a small army to crush the player clan

[svensson]

7 hours ago, Ironwall said:

Player actions have led to a different timeline from the canon glorantha so there ls a sartarite civil war brewing nothing has happened yet but everyone is gearing up. In steps an independent clan of 800ish people who insult a tribal king. I decided leika wanted to ensure nobody thought of her as weak so is sending a small army to crush the player clan

Well, they made their bed. Now they get to lie in it.... while somebody throws dirt on their face... 😆

I hope they're packing the gear, so to speak, to face off against Leika and Nameless. Neither one of those worthies are likely to stay on the sidelines when a war is started by way of personal insult.

If the players actually survive the coming fracas, I'd have the Colymar ransom them... except one of them. THAT poor SOB can anticipate a future as a castrati....

But, as I tell my Civil War [reenactment] privates and the gamers at my table,
"'Pain' is God's little way of telling you to 'Quit that!'"

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by svensson