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Questions about character creation (mainly about the priest occupation)


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Hello, I recently bought a copy of the "RuneQuest: Roleplaying in Glorantha" slipcase set and I started reading through the main book.
As usual I tried to create a character to see, if I understand the process, and I came up with a couple of questions. I rolled that my favorite grandparent was a priest and decided to keep to the advice to have occupation be hereditary.
 
 
The "Priest" occupation on page 70 mentions requirements for acceptance, but also has the line "However, adventurers whose parents were priests...". Do I read this correctly as: if you decide to choose priest despite your family history being different, you should try to make the requirements happen during character creation, but if you have the occupation in your family you are not bound by them? (it would make sense thematically, showing that you have to be worthy of being a priest if you don't have a family history).
 
Or should one try to get the requirements no matter what the family occupation is? (I decided that my character wants to be seen as a "proper" priest, so he strived to meet all the requirements mentioned on page 276 - "Requirements for rune priests").
 
Or a 3rd option: the requirements mention "assistant priest" - is the intention for newly created characters to be assistants, so they can strive to become full priests later? Or am I overthinking this?
 
 
Then things got a bit more complicated. I started to make an character from "old tarsh" and decided to lean very heavily into the earth rune. Checking the cults that are appropriate "Maran Gor (The earthshaker)" caught my interest (and a warrior priest going into battle while causing earthquakes sounded amazing, so I was pretty happy with how my character shapes out). Reading about the cult on page 299 I saw that only a woman can become a priestress, but a man could still be a god-talker. This is OK with me - taking the character into a direction I didn't anticipate - but then I read up on what a God-talker actually is (page 278 and the bit on page 70 under the description of the occupation).
 
So given that they are only part time priests - should I reduce the amount of things gotten from the occupation (less coin and jewelry, maybe a bit cheaper armor)? I guess this is up to the game master, but I would like to know what other people think.
 
And page 278 mentions that god-talkers typically maintain another occupation... So how to handle that detail? Ignore it? Or just choose a different skill for the annual income? (I would be leaning towards the latter, trying to get immersed into the world by making sure such a character would feel that they aren't a full priest and they have to earn their money in a different way).
 
Thank you in advance for any help/suggestion and/or corrections if I misunderstood anything in the process 🙂
 
 
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I think newly created characters will be assistant priests like Yanioth, but if you somehow manage to fulfill all requirements during character generation, it is OK to start as a priest.

God-talkers are people with a job that do what priests do when no priests are available. So I would create a character with a certain occupation, and then make him/her god-talker on top of that if the PC fulfills the requirements.

I created a character here, if it helps:

Grazelander character Tomiris

 

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there are several things, at least for me, and there is something important you wrote : "I guess this is up to the game master"

How I manage it :

 

1) occupation ~p70 (skill, etc...) is what are your main tasks, not what is your "social" role (social in both mundane and god/spirit role). You have "priest occupation", you mainly work in a temple for religious purpose.

2) social means some requirements (you are noble because your culture consider you are, by blood for some, by leadership position for other, etc..)

these requirements may be given by the rules and by the roleplay

to be a "priest" (p278) you must follow the stats requirements AND be selected as a priest

to be a god talker you must follow the stats requirements and (at least for me) that's all, the relationship is more between the character and the god

 

then in your case

- your character is born in a religious family, with some priests so it was very easy (or mandatory), to follow the rites, learn the songs, etc.. maybe when adult, your parent ask you to assist them, may be not, (no problem to follow the occupation in both case, but important for the background, from my perspective )

- if all requirements are fullfilled (woman included for maran gor priestess), you may be god talker or priest (with me, no you are not a priest, "prove your value first". except if the campaign is very specific of course )

 

the income as nothing to do with p278 and other (still, my opinion), the relationship is with your occupation.

For example you are a godtalker working as mercenary, fighting as anyone in your company but leading some worhip ceremony. You may choose between two occupations (warrior because you fight, priest because you worship). the income should be the occupational one. Note that all this things could be mitigate etc depending on the situation (your company is only 3 people, of course you are just a warrior as other, you can't earn enough money, have enough worshippers to consider your main tasks as priest tasks)

 

that is the same for a noble:

a merchant with a place in the ring of your clan / tribe may have a "noble" occupation because focusing more on politics or a "merchant" occupation because focusing more on trade.

to have the choice of occupation you should fullfill the requirement (you must work in a shop or a caravan to be a merchant, you must have enough income sources : tenant, etc... and have a social position satisfying the "noble" occupation)

 

 

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Think of the Priest character generation occupation as Acolyte instead. It's the Rune magic equivalent of 'Assistant Shaman'.

The PC was trained as a priest but hasn't been ordained yet. This can happen any number of ways... the PC was the child of priest and raised in their household, was given to a temple by their parents for training in the faith, was an orphan adopted by a religious group. They're a... 'deacon' I guess. They have a religious education and can offer guidance but cannot give blessings or other sacred functions beyond their Initiate ability.

HOWEVER, with really good attribute rolls it is entirely possible to generate a character that meets most of the requirements of a priest. This largely depends on cult, but no PC will have both the required POW of 18 and the number of Rune Points sacrificed for spells. But that's a lot shorter a road than having to start the game needing ALL the requirements [POW, RP sacrificed, skills, etc.].

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15 hours ago, SonyBlack said:
The "Priest" occupation on page 70 mentions requirements for acceptance, but also has the line "However, adventurers whose parents were priests...". Do I read this correctly as: if you decide to choose priest despite your family history being different, you should try to make the requirements happen during character creation, but if you have the occupation in your family you are not bound by them? (it would make sense thematically, showing that you have to be worthy of being a priest if you don't have a family history).
 
Or should one try to get the requirements no matter what the family occupation is? (I decided that my character wants to be seen as a "proper" priest, so he strived to meet all the requirements mentioned on page 276 - "Requirements for rune priests").
 
Or a 3rd option: the requirements mention "assistant priest" - is the intention for newly created characters to be assistants, so they can strive to become full priests later? Or am I overthinking this?

My take on the "parents were..." clause: Firstly, the "or" conditional in that clause is ambiguous. Is it to be read as "adventurers whose (parents were priests or are priests in training)" or as "adventurers (whose parents were priests) or ([the adventurers] are priests in training)". The first, to me, could mean IFF a parent was a priest, you can use the Priest occupation for determining your skills and other gains -- look on it as being a student in a seminary, taking parts assisting the presiding priest, and hence learning the skills of a priest -- but you are not yourself a priest. The latter interpretation opens "Priest" occupation to being used by anyone during character generation -- but still does not make them a priest.

Then there is the "adventurer can become a priest only if..." clause, which I would take to mean they are using some other occupation during character generation for initial skills and are expected to "grow into" the qualifications of priest during their adventuring. (Even at the most favorable, it is rare that a newly created character would meet the requirements for Rune level titles.) IE; anyone can become a priest if their cult has such rank -- one just needs to gain the experience and donation a lot of money (I have an RQ2 character that made priest... Taking the base suggested "examination" I donated enough money to get to a 95% acceptance [since 96+ is always a failure]).

You, yourself (the character), only get to be called a "priest" IF you meet the full requirements for that title (and since "God-talker" is also a titled role, if that is a cult option, you'd have to meet its requirements). I would, however, skip the page 276 requirement of "convince the examiners of their cult of their dedication to the cult and its goals" -- if one has been following/working with their parents (or "priest in training") for the years leading up to "starting age", one has implicitly shown the cult "dedication" (I tend to assume the occupation skills are really built up between ages 15-21, as character generation normally ends with the character at 21 -- RQ3 had occupation experience on a per year basis of the difference between rolled starting age and age 15: if you rolled age 16, you only got one year experience).

Also note that "part-time" (aka: God-talkers) are mentioned as normally having some secondary occupation. "Assistants" would need even more outside support (indulgent parents, perhaps, since maintaining a "noble" standard of living without having the land grant of a full priest is going to be extremely difficult).

 

* IFF => If, and only if

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23 hours ago, svensson said:

his largely depends on cult, but no PC will have both the required POW of 18 and the number of Rune Points sacrificed for spells.

Actually, you can.

A) Lunar cults will want the Moon rune to be high - which would give you +2 POW, which you could sacrifice for the RPs.

B) According to some other corrections or similar, you only need the 18 POW to become a priest. You don't actually need to maintain that 18 after you are ordained.

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First of all thank you all for the answers 🙂 I'll replay to everybody here, since I think I'm still limited to 1 post/reply per day, since I have a new account (I will replace the posts by "...", to make sure my post won't be to huge, but I hope it will still be legible)
 

On 5/20/2022 at 10:16 AM, Runeblogger said:

...

Thank you a lot, I have watched a couple of videos on youtube before reading the book, but another example always comes in handy.

On 5/20/2022 at 10:50 AM, French Desperate WindChild said:

...

If I understand you correctly I shouldn't feel limited by what my occupation says, but decide how I actually make a living and roll accordingly? That makes sense.

On 5/20/2022 at 12:07 PM, svensson said:

...

Yeah, thinking about it as acolyte does make more sense.

19 hours ago, Baron Wulfraed said:

...

I agree it is ambigous, I also re-read it multiple times. BTW love the iff notation - I haven't seen it since I finished university 😉

51 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

...

I think you are right with the moon rune and a lucky 18 you can get there. But you have to maintain a POW of 18 or higher - see "Duties and restrictions" on page 278 (I just reached that part in my reading) and "Divine intervention: Procedure" on pages 272 and 273 (specifically calling out that you loose your status until you manage to get POW back to 18)

10 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

...

Yeah, you are right - see my reply above 🙂

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41 minutes ago, SonyBlack said:

If I understand you correctly I shouldn't feel limited by what my occupation says, but decide how I actually make a living and roll accordingly? That makes sense.

Yes

there are three levels for me from a gameplay perspective:

what skills are used between adventure (aka roll do) and the income (that is the occupation part)

What is your standard of living = outcome

what is your relationship whit your god or any non mundane world entity 

With this three dimensions, the role of gm+player is to determine what is the social background / roleplay able to explain everything 

for example you may want to live as a noble (great house , fine food, servants…) but your passion is hunting  and you hunt every day , and you don’t want to decide for other (no social role)

so how to explain the difference between occupation income (hunter ) and noble outcome ? Do you expect your adventures to give you enough plunder to fit the gap ? Do you hope dad to pay for you ? Or maybe some favor from the clan, a local power , etc after some great deeds*
 

*for me it must be done during the play.

the rules gives me a framework and the easiest way : you want to play a noble ? Take occupation noble , outcome noble, etc

but there is no reason to explore more complex combination. 
‘my only concern is about logic and background:

with a yelmalio priest (social position) I accept some occupations but not all : scribe (you are in charge of the temple library) priest (of course) warrior (war god so having martial activity is normal) noble (officer or politician ) for example. Of course if a player come with some good argument with fisher, why not. But some are obvious some aren’t

same if your adventurer wants to have noble occupation after 10 years as fisher adventurer how to explain it ? Is he a mercenary officer ? Is he a lander owner ? A ring member ? A guild leader ? Etc… 

 

 

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22 hours ago, Baron Wulfraed said:

My take on the "parents were..." clause:

A slight addendum on "parents were": these "parents" can (IMO more often than not should) be part of the extended family rather than your biological parents, up to and including patrons of your biological parents taking an interest (fostering).

Also, temple orphans are quite likely to have a priestly upbringing because they grow up at a temple. They may take a hit in the wealth outcome for that, and may end up having to replace "Love (family)" with "loyalty temple". One of the best known temple orphans was Palashee, king of Tarsh before Phargentes.

 

 

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Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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1 hour ago, Joerg said:

A slight addendum on "parents were": these "parents" can (IMO more often than not should) be part of the extended family rather than your biological parents, up to and including patrons of your biological parents taking an interest (fostering).

Well, the key facet I think is that one should have been raised in an immersive environment -- visiting an uncle on the day he presides over some ceremony isn't enough exposure to me.

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To me the key is that noble or priestly family during character generation just gets you a good start: higher social skills and more expensive gear.  But thereafter occupation is maintained, achieved, or lost during play. 

So when you grow up as a noble but go join the rebels your occupation and income at sacred time change to bandit / rebel.  If you join a caravan it becomes warrior for guards, merchant for merchants.  If you stay home and live in the chief's household it continues as noble, because although you don't have five hides of land you still share the standard of living.

And if your character is an assistant priest and just hangs around the temple then he or she does not get into the stressful situations that increase POW, so it may be a long time before becoming eligible for full priest with its high disposable income and benefits.  

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And priest + spelling corrections
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16 hours ago, Baron Wulfraed said:

Well, the key facet I think is that one should have been raised in an immersive environment -- visiting an uncle on the day he presides over some ceremony isn't enough exposure to me.

Your uncle may very well be the male on the stead while your father was away serving a prince, guarding a caravan, or herding on the high pastures. Being there for an afternoon may start the fascination and lead to a switch in "chosen godfather". Limiting these to the actual progenitors might be misleading about the society, but probably sells more easily to players and GMs raised in such an environment.

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Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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On 5/19/2022 at 11:33 PM, SonyBlack said:
The "Priest" occupation on page 70 mentions requirements for acceptance, but also has the line "However, adventurers whose parents were priests...". Do I read this correctly as: if you decide to choose priest despite your family history being different, you should try to make the requirements happen during character creation, but if you have the occupation in your family you are not bound by them? (it would make sense thematically, showing that you have to be worthy of being a priest if you don't have a family history).

There is effectively another occupation - Assistant Priest, within the Priest occupation. Your parent takes you into the priesthood and trains you up to be the next priest. But you aren't a priest (yet). Players should try to get as many of the relevant abilities up to qualifying level as they can, Clearly they aren't going to get the 5 Rune points as they start with 3 (or more if they sacrifice POW). it's a proper occupation, others understand you are on the path to becoming a rune priest (or lord in some cases).

One of my players did this. Their father is the local Bull Priest, so they became an Assistant Bull Priest. They juggled their adventurers to get all the right skills in the right places, but they are still not quite there. They are supported by the Local temple as they effectively have noble status and need to pay a high standard of living. I gave the adventurer one hide of land to manage that belongs to the temple to show their status (not enough income).

On 5/19/2022 at 11:33 PM, SonyBlack said:

Then things got a bit more complicated. I started to make an character from "old tarsh" and decided to lean very heavily into the earth rune. Checking the cults that are appropriate "Maran Gor (The earthshaker)" caught my interest (and a warrior priest going into battle while causing earthquakes sounded amazing, so I was pretty happy with how my character shapes out). Reading about the cult on page 299 I saw that only a woman can become a priestress, but a man could still be a god-talker. This is OK with me - taking the character into a direction I didn't anticipate - but then I read up on what a God-talker actually is (page 278 and the bit on page 70 under the description of the occupation).

They are still an Assistant priest, but can only become a God-talker, you might consider calling them an Assistant God-talker. They aren't yet a god-talker as they don't qualify  (This means there are actually two occupations within Priest - Assistant Priest and Assistant God-talker). Think of this role as an apprenticeship, it's full time until they qualify. 

On 5/19/2022 at 11:33 PM, SonyBlack said:

So given that they are only part time priests - should I reduce the amount of things gotten from the occupation (less coin and jewelry, maybe a bit cheaper armor)? I guess this is up to the game master, but I would like to know what other people think.

Make them Light Infantry as that's the standard Maran Gor career (the other bandit will be hard to rationalise). They will train with the others but all occupational skills come from priest. They aren't a God-talker yet. The cult of Maran Gor likely has a number of male assistant god-talkers at the temple, and so it's normal for this to work this way. I suggest that it is while they are assistant god-talkers that they become eunuchs. As Light Infantry their standard of living will be warrior not noble.

On 5/19/2022 at 11:33 PM, SonyBlack said:

And page 278 mentions that god-talkers typically maintain another occupation... So how to handle that detail? Ignore it? Or just choose a different skill for the annual income? (I would be leaning towards the latter, trying to get immersed into the world by making sure such a character would feel that they aren't a full priest and they have to earn their money in a different way).

As they are in the "system", they don't need another occupation. Once they qualify, I suggest basing their occupational skill on what they are doing in the game based on the usual Maran Gor occupations, which will be Light infantry (Battle) as the other, Bandit has no income!

Overall the system is quite flexible on all of this. Note that it will be your mother who is the parent in the cult, unless you were conceived before your father became a god-talker...

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1 hour ago, David Scott said:

There is effectively another occupation - Assistant Priest, within the Priest occupation. Your parent takes you into the priesthood and trains you up to be the next priest. But you aren't a priest (yet). Players should try to get as many of the relevant abilities up to qualifying level as they can, Clearly they aren't going to get the 5 Rune points as they start with 3 (or more if they sacrifice POW). it's a proper occupation, others understand you are on the path to becoming a rune priest (or lord in some cases).

One of my players did this. Their father is the local Bull Priest, so they became an Assistant Bull Priest. They juggled their adventurers to get all the right skills in the right places, but they are still not quite there. They are supported by the Local temple as they effectively have noble status and need to pay a high standard of living. I gave the adventurer one hide of land to manage that belongs to the temple to show their status (not enough income).

They are still an Assistant priest, but can only become a God-talker, you might consider calling them an Assistant God-talker. They aren't yet a god-talker as they don't qualify  (This means there are actually two occupations within Priest - Assistant Priest and Assistant God-talker). Think of this role as an apprenticeship, it's full time until they qualify. 

Make them Light Infantry as that's the standard Maran Gor career (the other bandit will be hard to rationalise). They will train with the others but all occupational skills come from priest. They aren't a God-talker yet. The cult of Maran Gor likely has a number of male assistant god-talkers at the temple, and so it's normal for this to work this way. I suggest that it is while they are assistant god-talkers that they become eunuchs. As Light Infantry their standard of living will be warrior not noble.

As they are in the "system", they don't need another occupation. Once they qualify, I suggest basing their occupational skill on what they are doing in the game based on the usual Maran Gor occupations, which will be Light infantry (Battle) as the other, Bandit has no income!

Overall the system is quite flexible on all of this. Note that it will be your mother who is the parent in the cult, unless you were conceived before your father became a god-talker...

Thank you a lot for this 🙂 About being conceived before my father would have become god-talker. That would be true even for the mother, since the priestesses also have to be celibate, or if they are female god-talkers their sons will get sacrificed... So Maran Gor priest parents would almost always need to have the child before becoming priests/god-talkers 😄 

For this character specifically I could see them maybe following Maran Gor after the parents might have been priests of the cult of Ernalda, but he decided to follow a more agressive path, possibly thanks to his hatred towards the lunar empire and another great influence could be his higher Loyalty to the Shaker temple than to his own clan (he lost some%  of clan loyalty during the 2nd year of the Great winter).

Overall I loooove the character creation system (I'm just sad that there is no family history to be generated if one wants to play a non human character). I would really enjoy playing this character I think. But in all honesty, I'm only getting to play RuneQuest if I GM it, so he will probably just stay a "test" run of character creation and maybe join the other pre-generated ones for the purpose of one-shots.

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On 5/19/2022 at 3:33 PM, SonyBlack said:
... decided to keep to the advice to have occupation be hereditary.
... but also has the line "However, adventurers whose parents were priests...". Do I read this correctly as: if you decide to choose priest despite your family history being different ...

n.b. the character-creation rules element where your Adventurer's profession follows your parents'/grandparents'... that should be considered the very-mildest of suggestions, not a rule.  <insert the obligatory Barbossa quote here>  RQ is "bronze age" (kinda-sorta) but there's a LOT more social mobility than AFAIK is attested in any historical record.
 

On 5/19/2022 at 3:33 PM, SonyBlack said:
 ... but also has the line "However, adventurers whose parents were priests...". Do I read this correctly as: if you decide to choose priest despite your family history being different, you should try to make the requirements happen during character creation, but if you have the occupation in your family you are not bound by them? (it would make sense thematically, showing that you have to be worthy of being a priest if you don't have a family history).
 
Or should one try to get the requirements no matter what the family occupation is? (I decided that my character wants to be seen as a "proper" priest, so he strived to meet all the requirements mentioned on page 276 - "Requirements for rune priests").
 
Or a 3rd option: the requirements mention "assistant priest" - is the intention for newly created characters to be assistants, so they can strive to become full priests later? Or am I overthinking this?

The requirements for rune priests apply across the board, regardless of parentage.   VERY few starting PC's will be eligible to be priests at initial character-creation.  Becoming "assistant priests" and "god-talkers" &c is the status of "on the pathway to full Priest, but not there yet, or otherwise not quite a 'proper' priest somehow."

 

On 5/19/2022 at 3:33 PM, SonyBlack said:
... And page 278 mentions that god-talkers typically maintain another occupation... So how to handle that detail? Ignore it? Or just choose a different skill for the annual income? (I would be leaning towards the latter, trying to get immersed into the world by making sure such a character would feel that they aren't a full priest and they have to earn their money in a different way).

Yep; this is what I would do, myself.  The PC's "other job" strikes me as a VERY nice option, here.  Obvious choices include:  Mercenary soldier (following @David Scott's suggestion of a "Warrior" career), but also any of the "priest" professional-skills pursued outside the priesthood; "Dance" (I presume lots of stamping, in Maran Gor ceremonies; also drumming, so I'd allow "Drum" too) would let him join as a paid member of other performing & ceremonial groups.

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13 hours ago, SonyBlack said:

Thank you a lot for this 🙂 About being conceived before my father would have become god-talker. That would be true even for the mother, since the priestesses also have to be celibate, or if they are female god-talkers their sons will get sacrificed... So Maran Gor priest parents would almost always need to have the child before becoming priests/god-talkers 😄

Unless they're adopted. (just an RP thought...)

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18 hours ago, SonyBlack said:

About being conceived before my father would have become god-talker. That would be true even for the mother, since the priestesses also have to be celibate, or if they are female god-talkers their sons will get sacrificed... So Maran Gor priest parents would almost always need to have the child before becoming priests/god-talkers. 

To clarify - from the upcoming Cults of Glorantha:

  • Initiates: no restriction on children
  • Male God-talkers: must be eunuchs
  • Female God-talkers (Dancing Women): Any sons born to a Dancing Woman must be given to the temple. Daughters born must be dedicated to the service of Maran Gor or Babeester Gor.
  • Shaker Priestesses: must be celibate.

Note that the High priestess is attended by 47 male and female cannibal virgins who are also Dancing Women. So I don't believe that all male children are sacrificed per the Core Rules.

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It seems the obligation on the Dancing Women with children is quite similar to that of Babeester Gor Axe maidens.

Castrating virgin boys is a good way to guarantee they will remain virginal (and possibly get you a nice soprano chorus), depending on what definition of virginity you use. And that would be quite a big sacrifice for the goddess.

Depending on how many cannibals you need to feed, Dancing Women may be encouraged to get pregnant often, or to get volunteers back to the temple for the "festivities".

We are not in Kansas anymore. 

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1 hour ago, David Scott said:

Note that the High priestess is attended by 47 male and female cannibal

to be sure, what kind of cannibalism is it ? daily ? only during holy day and because they are actors of the ceremony ?

Who are eaten ?

people killed to be eaten ? volunteer ? people dead for any reason, and their bodies offered to the temple ?

just part of living people ?

don't want to much details, but it could be good for a scenario (will you choose to save XXX and get some maran gor hostility ?)

 

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20 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

to be sure, what kind of cannibalism is it ?

Human

20 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

daily ? only during holy day and because they are actors of the ceremony ?

I's suggest annually on the High Holy Day. I'd have the High priestess embodying Sorana Tor and have the victim as her ceremonial husband sacrificed to renew the earth.

20 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

Who are eaten ?

The ceremonial husband.

20 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

people killed to be eaten ? volunteer ? people dead for any reason, and their bodies offered to the temple ?

One of the children of a God-talker given to the temple. They would be raised to adulthood first.

20 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

just part of living people ?

No.

20 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

don't want to much details, but it could be good for a scenario (will you choose to save XXX and get some maran gor hostility ?)

Go wild.

I'd use one of the sacrifice examples in Joseph Campbell's Masks of God, Primitive Mythology (Vol. 01), in The Immolated Kings chapter:

Quote

When his time came, the king had a wooden scaffolding constructed and spread over with hangings of silk. And when he had ritually bathed in a tank, with great ceremonies and to the sound of music, he proceeded to the temple, where he paid worship to the divinity. Then he mounted the scaffolding and, before the people, took some very sharp knives and began to cut off parts of his body—nose, ears, lips, and all his members, and as much of his flesh as he was able—throwing them away and round about, until so much of his blood was spilled that he began to faint, whereupon he slit his throat.

or

Quote

The two young people had to make the new fire and then perform that other, symbolically analogous act, their first copulation; after which they were tossed into a prepared trench, while a shout went up to drown their cries, and quickly buried alive.

 

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