Jump to content

What is the difference between an awakened herd man and a human, and questions about awakened herd beasts and unawakened herd men more broadly


Recommended Posts

The Alter Creature spell is the only (easy) way of creating awakened animals that are the size of herd men (and the other beasts of the wastes) that does not require them to be bound to a shrine for their continued intelligence. This spell makes them require human quality food so they do not maintain the advantage of being cheap to feed. Given this I am having trouble understanding what difference there is between Awakened herd-men and humans, they seem nearly identical to a normal human (which is their godtime origin so this makes some sense) but they are consistently referred to as a different thing than humans (them being referred to as awakened herd men rather than humans who are former herd men) so I think there is probably some substantial (magical) difference I am missing. Maybe it is just the Praxens being pedantic and there is no significant difference.

On the topic of Herd-men and Awakened herd Beasts I have a few other questions that I am putting here to avoid making more threads:

1) it is my understanding that creatures Awakened through Alter Creature do not follow the normal rules about needing to be bound to someone to remain intelligent is that correct? 

2) What cults can Awakened Herd Men and awakened Praxian beasts more generally be initiates of? I seem to recall Waha Khans having awakened mounts that are themselves initiates of Waha but I could be misremembering.

3) What is the status of awakened herd men in the Morokanth tribe? Are they treated/thought of as: especially valuable herd beasts, Slaves, or full members of the tribe? Does this differ from how the other tribes treat awakened herd beasts (do the non-Morokanth tribes differ in their views on Awakened Herd beasts?) 

4) If awakened herd animals are slaves or Herd beasts to Praxians what are the rules around selling them? Can they be sold to outsiders (non-Praxens, the other tribes would not be interested)? Clan clan Khans charge outrages prices to awaken outsiders Praxian beasts?

5) If they are full members of the tribe what happens if they run off to become a Pol-Joni? Would the Pol-Joni accept them (much more a problem for non herd-men awakened herd beasts)? Are there special rules/attitudes on part of the Praxian tribes that prevent this? (Obviously this could differ tribe to tribe)

6) Why haven’t Herd-Men spread well beyond the tribes? They are significantly cheaper to feed than humans and can be trained to engage in basic tasks. As such they would be useful in almost all sophisticated societies.

7) off topic but how do Morokanth treat their slaves? I would think that they wouldn’t treat them awfully in order to avoid revolts and keep them useful as combatants.  

Sorry about the plethora of questions.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

These are my opinions:

2) Any cult that a Praxian may join: Waha, Eiritha, etc., 

3) I think Awakened herd beasts are treated the same in all Praxian tribes. 

6) Herd men thrive only in the Wastelands and Prax, and they creep out the neighbors. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my Glorantha, Herd men and Humans are very similar - disturbingly similar, in fact.  The only real difference is a weird, chilling vacant look that a Herd Man has.  The presence of Herd Men around Morocanth is what makes the Morocanth distrusted, disliked and even hated.

The rumours are that Morocanth have the power to turn ordinary Humans into Herd Men.  Everyone knows someone who spoke to a guy who knew someone who was turned.   Every kid has an older brother who used to scare them with those stories.

Those rumours are all true.  The only positive is that you can turn them back as well.  There is a Heroquest of some sort where you need to rescue the former Human's soul and put it back into their body.  I always figured on doing a scenario where a favourite NPC is turned into a Herd Man and the PCs have to figure out what to do now.

Morocanth don't make a habit of turning humans, there tend to be repercussions, but they can do it.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

a great topic !

a) there is something important to keep in mind (something I discovered in this forum after more than 30 years of glorantha) :

only praxian human being can be transformed as herd man. No sartarite, no lunar, no sun domer... Of course if these people are adopted into a praxian tribe... the covenant should apply. Of course their are rumors but rumors are sometimes true  sometimes wrong.

b) Another thing I consider true (but for a long time), Alter creature is not just a spell, it is a big change of the world, a kind of breach in the covenant. So it shoud be use with parsimony, for good reason. (In my glorantha, Waha will refuse to alter the creature if not)

c) A last thing, praxians have access to allied spirit too. So the khan's mount can be awakened as a free mount wanting to follow her can (loyalty passion) or, and more probably, an allied spirit is bound to the no-awakened mount. When you (khan) are blessed by Waha, Waha would probably send you an allied spirit. You shoud not need to break the convenant to have a smart mount.

 

now your questions :

1) awakened creatures are free creatures. They are not bound to anyone (but of course you have passion , love / loyalty / hate, so it is a kind of bound, but there is not the "mechanic" of bound spirit)

2) they are free creatures. They do their path as they want.  And cults accept them or don't. So up to the gm, from my perspective.

3) Why a awakened herd man would be in a Morokanth clan ? I mean someone did something against the covenant, againt the herd so the wealth of the Morokanth. So there are a lot of option

- Morokanth decide to awake the herd man. Then our guy has the status decided by the Morokanth. I consider weird, and maybe  blasphemer the Morokanth who do something like that. What is the goal ? Now will the new herd man accept this status ? ==> a risky decision, the new man would try to escape, the gods would be angry

- Other tribe decided to awake the herd man. Then the new man is now in a Morokanth place. His future seems to me obvious : back to the herd, new alter creature cast (of course there are exceptions)

 

4) For me the original tribe /clan which awakened the creature did it for a good reason, and it imply a choice of freedom. So the original clan would never sell the breature. However another clan / tribe could raid and capture it. A very bad clan will sell it to strangers. A standard clan then would consider it as a currency to obtain some favor. Somewhere this creature is most important than a standard clan member. Have sex and you have a new clan member. Break the covenant and you have a awakened beast.

 

5) politics and xenophobia (in my glorantha). politics because accepting this "person" implies some difficulty with his previous clan/tribe. xenophobia because that is so strange. What are his gods ? What want pol joni gods ?

 

6) because it is weird to accept this when you teach to your children that Morokanth deeds were trichery. Are you just a opportunist clan or do you have some proudness ?

 

7) herd men are not slave, they are "cows". Now any morokanth slave (aka not herd) should be treated as any praxian slave. You may have some difference between owners but for me it is more a personality difference than a race difference. However smart Morokanth shoud know that they are more different with any tribe than any human tribe. So they should be cautious and treat respectfully their slave (well respect... at least show they are good praxians)

 

of course it is only my perspective. Don't take it as canon or not canon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awakened Herdmen probably still lust for herdmen rather than normal humans, who they still might regard as performing besiality, however consensual that might be.

  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So a thought that may sit better in the Dumbest Theory thread, but If beasts (including herd men) can be awakened, and sentients can be turned into beasts, does this imply the existence of herd-morokanth?

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Garry said:

So a thought that may sit better in the Dumbest Theory thread, but If beasts (including herd men) can be awakened, and sentients can be turned into beasts, does this imply the existence of herd-morokanth?

Morokanth are part of the covenant so they can be altered too

however it should be individuals. I would not believe any religious praxian will accept that someone will alter enough Morokanth to obtain a herd. That is refusing Waha decision.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Garry said:

So a thought that may sit better in the Dumbest Theory thread, but If beasts (including herd men) can be awakened, and sentients can be turned into beasts, does this imply the existence of herd-morokanth?

It would take a cotery of especially vindictive Waha khans to subject enough Morokanth to the opposite of Awaken Beast in order to create a small herd. And then enough awakened Herdmen to care for that herd...

Also, the Awakening (or the reverse) might have to be performed on all offspring of both groups (unless either mate with Praxian Minotaurs).

  • Like 1

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, FlamingCatOfDeath said:

Given this I am having trouble understanding what difference there is between Awakened herd-men and humans

In my opinion, the best way to understand it is to watch the original Planet of the Apes movie (with Charlton Heston).

Taylor (Charlton Heston) is human.

Landon (another astronaut) is a human converted into a herdman.

Nova is an awakened herdman.  

All the other "humans" encountered are herd-men.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Overall, remember that Alter Creature is a 2pt one-use spell, available only to Waha khan's and shaman (not initiates). As such it's not commonly used, and altered creatures will be rare.

On 6/10/2022 at 2:32 AM, FlamingCatOfDeath said:

1) it is my understanding that creatures Awakened through Alter Creature do not follow the normal rules about needing to be bound to someone to remain intelligent is that correct? 

What rules are you referring to?

Alter Creature is not an enchantment (binding or otherwise). It is a reversal of of the Survival Covenant.

Altered herd men become normal humans.

Altered humans become herd men. See the spell description in the Red Book of Magic for full details.

Remember it only works on Praxian humans and herd beasts.

On 6/10/2022 at 2:32 AM, FlamingCatOfDeath said:

2) What cults can Awakened Herd Men and awakened Praxian beasts more generally be initiates of?

Any that that they qualify for, including spirit cults.

On 6/10/2022 at 2:32 AM, FlamingCatOfDeath said:

I seem to recall Waha Khans having awakened mounts that are themselves initiates of Waha but I could be misremembering.

Waha Khans have their allied spirits in their mounts, Allied spirits are spirits sent by the deity to inhabit animals. They are not awakened animals. However a Waha khan could awaken a new mount after their allied spirit had died by spending 2 Rune points. 

On 6/10/2022 at 2:32 AM, FlamingCatOfDeath said:

3) What is the status of awakened herd men in the Morokanth tribe?

They are treated as equal tribal members.

On 6/10/2022 at 2:32 AM, FlamingCatOfDeath said:

Are they treated/thought of as: especially valuable herd beasts, Slaves, or full members of the tribe?

Full members.

On 6/10/2022 at 2:32 AM, FlamingCatOfDeath said:

Does this differ from how the other tribes treat awakened herd beasts (do the non-Morokanth tribes differ in their views on Awakened Herd beasts?)

No.

On 6/10/2022 at 2:32 AM, FlamingCatOfDeath said:

4) If awakened herd animals are slaves or Herd beasts to Praxians what are the rules around selling them? Can they be sold to outsiders (non-Praxens, the other tribes would not be interested)? Clan clan Khans charge outrages prices to awaken outsiders Praxian beasts?

They aren't sold or awakened on demand. As it's a one-use spell, it would in theory cost 400L, however a khan or shaman is likely to gift this to a loyal clan member, or use it for their own use.

On 6/10/2022 at 2:32 AM, FlamingCatOfDeath said:

5) If they are full members of the tribe what happens if they run off to become a Pol-Joni?

As long as they remain an initiate of their current cult, they might evoke the enmity of the khan or shaman who awakened them or c'est la vie. But this is stuff of story and adventure, as running off to join the Pol-joni is not really a thing (just like running off to join the circus). This is not to say it doesn't happen, but it's not common. As awakened herd men are rare, more so.

On 6/10/2022 at 2:32 AM, FlamingCatOfDeath said:

Would the Pol-Joni accept them (much more a problem for non herd-men awakened herd beasts)? Are there special rules/attitudes on part of the Praxian tribes that prevent this? (Obviously this could differ tribe to tribe)

As long as they pass the tribal tests, the Pol-joni accept them.

On 6/10/2022 at 2:32 AM, FlamingCatOfDeath said:

6) Why haven’t Herd-Men spread well beyond the tribes?

Remember it's the other praxian tribes that portray the Morokanth as slavers, with their herds of slave humans. They don't mention to outsiders that they are actually not humans but animals. That's why they trade in Mock Pork, not mentioning it's true origin.

On 6/10/2022 at 2:32 AM, FlamingCatOfDeath said:

They are significantly cheaper to feed than humans and can be trained to engage in basic tasks. As such they would be useful in almost all sophisticated societies.

As they are omnivores, while the Morokanth are vegetarian (only ritual carnivores), the morokanth raid to feet the herds meat, while the herds forage to help feed the morokanth. Outside of the morokanth tribe, herd men don't thrive without meat and the other tribes don't waste meat on them (except for ritual purposes). Please be aware that this concept is from Greg Stafford, if you don't wan't vegetarian morokanth that's fine, this is not the place to bring it up.

Raided herd men are always first in the pot as they don't keep well without meat...

On 6/10/2022 at 2:32 AM, FlamingCatOfDeath said:

7) off topic but how do Morokanth treat their slaves? I would think that they wouldn’t treat them awfully in order to avoid revolts and keep them useful as combatants.  

Morokanth treat human slaves very well (see above). They are actually the Praxian's preferred go-between for prisoner exchanges as the tribes know that they won't abuse them. The other tribes enforce their absence from Pimpers Block slave trading. That's not to say that there aren't a few rogue morokanth who actually trade in slaves and are the bad guys.

Edited by David Scott
changed awakened to altered
  • Thanks 2

-----

Search the Glorantha Resource Site: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com. Search the Glorantha mailing list archives: https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Garry said:

does this imply the existence of herd-morokanth?

Yes. There are occasional ones. I suspect there are a few at the Paps, and an occasional one that appears in Sacred Time along with other wild herds birthed by Eiritha herself. Remember that the Paps are Eiritha's udders, not where calves are born from (or Waha for that matter). The morokanth would treat them as sacred beasts.

Eiritha.thumb.png.fe3f1752ca0fdb6600395dff5ec46d6e.png

The Morokanth ancestral grassland is Bigglestone, the blue dot to the right of the Paps (armpit of the goddess)

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

-----

Search the Glorantha Resource Site: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com. Search the Glorantha mailing list archives: https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Joerg said:

Awakened Herdmen probably still lust for herdmen rather than normal humans, who they still might regard as performing besiality, however consensual that might be.

This checks out. Awakened riding beasts theoretically maintain their quadruped lust . . . although some probably try to find ways to sublimate awkward love for their riders, while others are only attracted to their awakened peers and revulsed by a dumb mind in a herbivore body.

While we're here, how is Alter Creature used? Who uses it? What tends to happened to Awakened riding beasts and what status do they tend to have within Waha?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

n.b. the answers above, from David Scott, represent the "most official" info available.
He's with Chaosium, and is AFAIK the primary guy developing the forthcoming "PraxPak" supplement.


That said:  "YGMV" -- Your Glorantha May Vary.
More popular of late, "Your Glorantha Will Vary."
I once asked some Chaosium bigwigs how much their own campaigns were "canonical."

The answer was, IIRC, along the lines of "moreso if playtesting a forthcoming publication, but general campaigns (depending on the GM) run about 25% - 50% canonical."

So I'll offer my own Gloranthan Variances:

16 hours ago, FlamingCatOfDeath said:

...

1) it is my understanding that creatures Awakened through Alter Creature do not follow the normal rules about needing to be bound to someone to remain intelligent is that correct? 

2) What cults can Awakened Herd Men and awakened Praxian beasts more generally be initiates of? I seem to recall Waha Khans having awakened mounts that are themselves initiates of Waha but I could be misremembering.

3) What is the status of awakened herd men in the Morokanth tribe? Are they treated/thought of as: especially valuable herd beasts, Slaves, or full members of the tribe? Does this differ from how the other tribes treat awakened herd beasts (do the non-Morokanth tribes differ in their views on Awakened Herd beasts?) 

4) If awakened herd animals are slaves or Herd beasts to Praxians what are the rules around selling them? Can they be sold to outsiders (non-Praxens, the other tribes would not be interested)? Clan clan Khans charge outrages prices to awaken outsiders Praxian beasts?

5) If they are full members of the tribe what happens if they run off to become a Pol-Joni? Would the Pol-Joni accept them (much more a problem for non herd-men awakened herd beasts)? Are there special rules/attitudes on part of the Praxian tribes that prevent this? (Obviously this could differ tribe to tribe)

6) Why haven’t Herd-Men spread well beyond the tribes? They are significantly cheaper to feed than humans and can be trained to engage in basic tasks. As such they would be useful in almost all sophisticated societies.

7) off topic but how do Morokanth treat their slaves? I would think that they wouldn’t treat them awfully in order to avoid revolts and keep them useful as combatants.  

...

1.  Correct.   Awaken Creature / Alter Creature  returns them to their Godtime state, before the Covenant required them to be Eaten (and non-sentient).  As such, they are sentient beings, the same as (indistiguishable from) any other sentient being.

I suspect you are confusing the case of a bound spirit (which has its own INT) that is bound into an animal.  Freed, the spirit leaves & takes its INT with it.  Technically, that animal never was intelligent, it was only ever the INT of the possessing spirit.

2.  They are Praxians, and can join all the regular Praxian cults.  I expect an unusual proportion of Storm Bull cultists from Awakened Bison, and some odd Star/Lunar stuff among Awakened Sable, but otherwise mostly Waha/Eiritha depending on gender.  Also, the "oddity factor" probably leads many to less-comon paths such as shamanism.

3.  IMG, Awakened Herdmen are Praxian humans.  If Awakened by Morocanth, they likely become adoptive members of the Morokanth tribe, but would be permitted to go seek other paths, as any other Praxian who doesn't fit in "at home" can.  They are weird-enough, outsider-enough -- even among Morokanth -- that I suspect shamanism is a likelier path than it is for most other Praxians:  the whole "did not have a normal/normative experience of childhood & proto-adulthood & other enculturating formative years" schtick seems common amongst shamans-to-be.

4.  Once Awakened, former herd-beasts -- of ANY species -- are Praxians.  If they fall into the hands of a Praxian warband or clan that's big on taking slaves, they may well be enslaved (unless it's same-Tribe, i.e. Impala-Tribe (even professional slavers) are unlikely to enslave an Awakened Impala); that is, it's more about the tendencies of the Praxians around them.

I would not expect Praxians, in general, to sell other Praxians to outsiders.  There will obviously be exceptional cases... criminals facing exile-or-death might be sold into slavery to help keep the "exile" permanent, etc.   I also would not expect any (even the most impoverished and money-grubbing) Waha Khan to sell something as sacred as an Awakening to some outsider, just so the outsider could have a better mount to ride (note also that, once Awakened, the new-minted Praxian (fresh-emerged from Sacred Magic) is entirely-likely to regard themselves more as the prisoner of an invading enemy, than as a loyal mount).

YGMV.

5.  I suppose they could go join the Pol Joni; but I tend to think they run more extra-hardcore Praxian, because they were Awakened to a sort of "Green Age Self" via sacred magic; not the kind of chafing dissatisfaction that leads to rejection/rebellion, but to the oddity-within-own-culture of shamanism & the like.

6.  IMG, the Herdmen are a feature of the Survival Covenant; they simply don't thrive in other places.  Also, nobody but a Praxian understands how to care for them.  As far as using them as cheap labor:  they only have animal intelligence, so -- despite the nifty opposable thumb -- they are VERY limited.  AFAIK, very very few primates anywhere have ever been domesticated for commercial labor; offhand, I only know of 2 cases:  ancient Egyptians may have used baboons as trained attack-animals (like military K-9's), and in modern S.E.Asia, monkeys are trained to harvest coconuts (I do not count novelty-act entertainment as the same sort of "domesticated for labor," it's more like a glorified (or debased) version of a pet).

7.  Human slaves of the Morokanth are among the best-treated slaves in Prax, since even the least-skilled human still has an opposible thumb; amongst human slavers, that's not nearly so rare or valuable a commodity!!!

(don't worry about lots of questions:  we're all new at something, somewhere, sometimes; and all of us were new to Glorantha at one point; and we love to talk about the world!)

Edited by g33k
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, g33k said:

I would not expect Praxians, in general, to sell other Praxians to outsiders.  There will obviously be exceptional cases... criminals facing exile-or-death might be sold into slavery to help keep the "exile" permanent, etc.   I also would not expect any (even the most impoverished and money-grubbing) Waha Khan to sell something as sacred as an Awakening to some outsider, just so the outsider could have a better mount to ride (note also that, once Awakened, the new-minted Praxian (fresh-emerged from Sacred Magic) is entirely-likely to regard themselves more as the prisoner of an invading enemy, than as a loyal mount).

YGMV.

Norayeep and Morag?

The two named cases of enslaved Praxians were sold to outsiders (the slave merchant at Pimper's Block), by their Praxian captors.

Praxians don't really feel kinship to people from the other tribes, except for those who they share a warrior brotherhood or magical society with. Norayeep was an initiate or possibly even godtalker of Eiritha, yet she was sold off like a piece of chattel property.

Also, (much like her historical parallel Sacagawea) nobody protested her slave status at Narmeed Whirlvishbane's wedding. (Her access to Biturian's gifting may have had something to do with that, but still...)

An Awakened beast from an other tribe may well be enslaved and sold off just to humiliate the tribe and clan that failed to protect their sacred person.

4 hours ago, David Scott said:

There are occasional ones. I suspect there are a few at the Paps, and an occasional one that appears in Sacred Time along with other wild herds birthed by Eiritha herself.

Does this imply that she gived birth to herdmen from the other tribes as well?

Note that the existence as a herd beast is a blessing of Eiritha rather than a curse. Only the herd people will be able to graze the spirit fodder of the Chaparral, even herdmen (though those still need meat in addition to their grazing).

  • Like 1

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gondo's Herd Man Treats **.  Standard Stall in the New Pavis Main Market. Gondo the Fearless (Male 39y/o from the Village of Maughry) is a tall, dark haired  man with rather large eyes and a dark sense of humor, who enjoys selling his quasi-cannibalistic wares.  He insists on offering any newcomer to Pavis a serve of his fried ladyfingers.  He is good friends with the local Morokanths and certain Zorak Zoran trolls. For many people, mock pork is an odd  and taboo food, and there are those who suspect that Gondo is an ogre, but in fact he an honest and philanthropic fellow who remains an initiate of Stormbull  who is a very proficient brawler, though no longer an adventurer, due to old wounds and a young family.  He lives in the village of Maughry, east south east of Pavis and is a reliable friend to those he gets to know, having stepped in to save people from being injured in riots and so forth.

Edited by Darius West
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/10/2022 at 9:08 AM, Joerg said:

Awakened Herdmen probably still lust for herdmen rather than normal humans, who they still might regard as performing besiality, however consensual that might be

Not in my Glorantha.

An Awakened Herd Man is a human. It is no longer a Herd Man.

There is a difference between binding a spirit into a Herd Man, as a familiar, and awakening a Herd Man.

Awakening a Herd Man reverses the Survival Covenant outcome for that Herd Man.

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

www.soltakss.com/index.html

Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, David Scott said:

What rules are you referring to?

The ones in the W&E.

19 hours ago, David Scott said:

Waha Khans have their allied spirits in their mounts, Allied spirits are spirits sent by the deity to inhabit animals. They are not awakened animals. However a Waha khan could awaken a new mount after their allied spirit had died by spending 2 Rune points. 

Just to double check a allied spirit counts as having “died” when their host object/creature dies? It is kind of odd that hit points going to zero in the case of elementals just means you need to re-summon them where in the case of allied spirits it means losing them permanently.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, FlamingCatOfDeath said:

The ones in the W&E.

Different words:

  • Awakened beast - an enchantment (costs POW)
  • Altered Creature - A 2pt one-use spell, from Waha. A reversal of of the Survival Covenant
  • Allied spirit - spirits sent by the deity to inhabit animals
2 minutes ago, FlamingCatOfDeath said:

Just to double check a allied spirit counts as having “died” when their host object/creature dies?

Yes, they are the creature. It's not a host. Likewise objects.

2 minutes ago, FlamingCatOfDeath said:

It is kind of odd that hit points going to zero in the case of elementals just means you need to re-summon them where in the case of allied spirits it means losing them permanently.

Different type of spirits

  • Allied spirit - spirits sent by the deity to inhabit animals or objects. They may even be a portion or extension of the deity. They become permanently embodied when put into an animal or object.
  • Elementals - embodied spirits, when it dies, it dies. You don't re-summon (it's gone), you summon a different one.
  • Thanks 1

-----

Search the Glorantha Resource Site: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com. Search the Glorantha mailing list archives: https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, soltakss said:

Not in my Glorantha.

An Awakened Herd Man is a human. It is no longer a Herd Man.

An Awakened Herd Man still is short of immediate ancestors, making a Daka Fal membership difficult, as well as the relationship to the tribal ancestors - the awakened herd person will have to go back to Morokanth Eiritha and Morokanth Founder to find common ancestors with the other people in the Morokanth tribe. Adoption will solve that, to some extent.

A Herd Person awakened by a non-Morokanth khan or shaman of Waha might be adopted into that magician's clan and tribe. In case of a female, her children will be part of the clan anyway, even if she only enjoys slave status. Awakening a herd woman into such a role would be seen as kinky, I suppose.

 

3 hours ago, soltakss said:

There is a difference between binding a spirit into a Herd Man, as a familiar, and awakening a Herd Man.

Yes. However, if your awakened Herd Person remains among the Morokanth, other than ritual marriages with Eiritha or Waha priesthood, what partners would they have? Herd People with bound spirits or familiars, or "slaves" or captives waiting to be ransomed may be the limitation of their social circumstances, while animal-minded herdmen are abundant.

Getting an allied spirit in a herd person of the opposite sex might be one way, but that is all manners of kinky, too. Becoming a khan or shaman of Waha and slowly converting your herd family into Awakened Herd People would be heroic, and probably anger the ancestors, and possibly the tribal deities, too.

 

3 hours ago, soltakss said:

Awakening a Herd Man reverses the Survival Covenant outcome for that Herd Man.

And makes him a "Morokanth Rider" person? Possibly an an Altered Morokanth?

Sounds like the start of a heroic journey similar to bringing back the fire powers to a Sun Dome Temple...

 

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I may have missed somethiing but I'm still wondering about the ultimate purpose of this magic. I think it is a highly religious act, far beyond just creating an intelligent beast by gifting -or cursing- it with INT, just because it deserves it or it helps or it is fun. So why altering or awaking a creature and reversing the Covenant ? Answering this question may answer many of those posted here.

Edited by Zit
  • Thanks 1

Wind on the Steppes, role playing among the steppe Nomads. The  running campaign and the blog

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Joerg said:

An Awakened Herd Man still is short of immediate ancestors, making a Daka Fal membership difficult, as well as the relationship to the tribal ancestors - the awakened herd person will have to go back to Morokanth Eiritha and Morokanth Founder to find common ancestors with the other people in the Morokanth tribe. Adoption will solve that, to some extent.

This a section of Eiritha genealogy from Cults of Prax, with Morokanth filled in. An altered herd man's ancestors are herd men back to the covenant, then humans. There's no Daka Fal problem as the ancestors that will appear are pre-covenant humans. Likewise they are related to Morokanth too, so under Daka Fal Morokanth will appear, even if 12th or 13th cousins.

image.png.026f6ac2ed8915838a152dc2a231f571.png

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2

-----

Search the Glorantha Resource Site: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com. Search the Glorantha mailing list archives: https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Zit said:

I may have missed somethiing but I'm still wondering about the ultimate purpose of this magic. I think it is a highly religious act, far beyond just creating an intelligent beast by gifting -or cursing- it with INT, just because it deserves it or it helps or it is fun. So why altering or awaking a creature and reversing the Covenant ? Answering this question may answer many of those posted here.

You are right in this. It's a connection back to pre-covenant times - the golden age where man and beast were equal. That's why it's rare and costly.

  • Thanks 1

-----

Search the Glorantha Resource Site: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com. Search the Glorantha mailing list archives: https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, Zit said:

I may have missed somethiing but I'm still wondering about the ultimate purpose of this magic. I think it is a highly religious act, far beyond just creating an intelligent beast by gifting -or cursing- it with INT, just because it deserves it or it helps or it is fun. So why altering or awaking a creature and reversing the Covenant ? Answering this question may answer many of those posted here.

My analysis as someone fairly new to Glorantha (probably very wrong, hopefully entertainingly so):


In the case of the non-Morokanth tribes the main practical reasons to cast the spell appear to be: regaining a intelligent magic casting mount if your Bound Spirit mount got killed (though you will need to get the shaman to teach it spirit magic), and securing the loyalty of key Warriors when your position as Khan is under internal threat. For the Morokanth it seems to mainly be a way to convert 2 POW and a herd men into a new clan member with opposable thumbs. Beyond using it to have intelligent thumb possessors in the clan (slaves would also serve this role) it seems useful for Morokanth when the clan has taken significant casualties and needs new members right now in order to defend the herd.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...