Blind player character ?

[Zouabar]

Hi !
I'm coming to you because one of my players wants to make a PC who is technically blind. I really don't want to deny my player's creativity and the character being blind ties into their story so I'd like to find a way to make that work but I'm afraid it might just be too much of an impediment in regards to essential parts of playing Call of Cthulhu.

I suppose they can just rely on other characters for Library Use and a good deal of situations where Spot Hidden comes into play might be able to be solved with other skills (ie. Listen for spotting an opponent approaching, Occultism to "sense" magical items and creatures as this character would be a medium of sorts). A guide dog might be useful for combat situations and the likes, might even help with investigations if said dog is able to sniff out and follow tracks. And I guess smell, touch and hearing can convey horror well enough to justify a couple sanity rolls from time to time.

I can't help but wonder if I'm forgetting some crucial mechanic that will come back to bite me as a Guardian though… Does anyone have any insight or advice that could apply to this situation ? I'd be really grateful ! Thanks in advance 🙂

Zouabar

[Nozbat]

My original thought was that if someone wants to have a sight impaired PC... why not? Then I wondered if someone was trying to eliminate SAN loss by thinking naively that, by not seeing any traumatic events, it would then negate the need for a SAN roll. BUT..there  are lots of different ways that senses can be used and as you rightly point out horror can be conveyed through other senses. They will not escape SAN rolls just because they can't see the horror. They will feel it, taste it in the air, smell the decay, hear it approach. Touch can convey so much and will give a lot of detail to someone who is used to interpreting it.

However there are major drawbacks: combat; collecting and reading evidence etc. I suspect that the life expectancy of such a person might be very limited in 'field situations'. However, I still wouldn't rule it out. I think a discussion with the player pointing out all possible drawbacks but also include that there are likely to be things that neither of you have thought about in the discussion that will come up during play. I would also discuss what the player thinks they will gain through using a sight-impaired character. Finally, I would also discuss that immediate decisions made during a game to keep the narrative going may be subject to review and change when you and all the players reflect on it. As long as they are happy with that, I'd run with it. As I said.. why not?

[Ejlertson]

In a campaign i think the drawbacks would be to many to make it practical.
In a scenario specificly written to have a blind charachter in it, I think it could be interesting.

[g33k]

As has been touched-upon, other senses can justify SAN rolls; be sure to emphasize this to your player (just in case they did have the thought this could "game the system" and get them an advantage (arguably, some of these will be worse than sight-based SAN rolls ! ) ).

As you're aware of this ahead of time, you should be able to adjust your content -- particularly for any pre-published adventures you use at the table -- to encompass the specifics of this character.  It will call for some extra prep-work for the Keeper; the amount of work may be a problem in a few circumstances, depending on how much adjustment is called-for.

Where will the character have particular problems?  Where will the *player* end up unengaged, with little to nothing to do?  IMHO, that's mostly:
- Combat
- Library Use
- Many on-site investigations
- Miscellaneous "notice" sorts of rolls, which are generally taken to be visual.

I'd be reluctant to substitute a "service dog" as a swiss - army - knifedog.  Navigation around town, "sniffer" investigations, trail-tracking, combat, and more.  Each of those is generally something that takes a lot of training to achieve; realistically, some of those trainings (like the safety orientation of being a guide-dog, vs. aggressive combat training) may be in conflict.  More more importantly, to me:  subjecting the dog to combat with the Mythos puts the dog (and from a metagame perspective, the participation of the PC (and thus the player)) at very high risk; dead or very-injured dog = vastly-reduced scope for player.

Honestly, I don't see any way to compensate for the issue of "Combat," unless you're going with a very-magical setting and letting your "medium" character summon spirits to attack foes (Chaosium's RuneQuest RPG (which uses the same BRP chassis that Call of Cthulhu does) has spirit-combat rules, if you wanted to go this way; you should be able to directly-port those rules over, with only very-minimal hacking).

For Library Use, there's Braille; it's honestly insufficient, as Braille translations are pretty rare, particularly when you're going to old/archival material, most-particularly old periodicals.  For a very-modern setting, I can imagine someone with a scanner/OCR/text-to-speech device, that can read-aloud for the blind person.  This would allow library research in pretty-robust ways (but occasionally glitching, as each step of scan/ocr/text-to-speech involves occasional errors, even from state-of-the-art tech).

For on-site investigations, I expect you -- the Keeper -- would need to put in the most effort.  You would have to come up with large suites of extra non-visual clues & evidence, per-site.  It's entirely do-able, but I can imagine it could sometimes become onerous. 

For "notice" sorts of rolls... mainly, I'd just be worried about remembering to keep reminding myself to give rolls to other senses, too.

What I would do:

I would say, "Yes, but..."
I'd lay out my various concerns, and I'd ask the player (who wants to play the blind PC) to help come up with suites of solutions, ahead of time.  How do they see their PC participating in combat?  What does their PC do on "library days"?  What sorts of "notice" rolls (besides just listing the other 4 senses --  multiple examples of each, in-play) seem good?  Etc...

Edited March 29, 2023 by g33k
what I'd do

[teo twawki]

This leads into the discussion about the limiting aspects many Keepers put on the Mythos as being sight-based horrors instead of the Mythos altering reality and the laws of physics to suit their existence in a basically Newtonian universe. Cosmological horrors are an experience beyond just seeing. e.g. Stand at the edge of Grand Prismatic Hot Spring in Yellowstone Park and sure, it's a visual feast of color and expanse, but it is also a sulfurous aromatic and lingering taste experience; a tactile encounter with humidity, moisture, and temperature changes; and various auditory water sounds of streaming, bubbling, and blurping. Such effects are vastly heightened in winter months.

A friend and game-companion at our table has hyperosmia. Among the many (mostly problematic) effects of this, they can tell people apart from great distances by how they (and their clothes) smell. If they were a character in the game, ghouls (as one evident example) would be detected long before they appeared.

[Joe Kenobi]

I once played as a blind character—turned blind by a spell cast by an NPC I’d offended. It was admittedly not my favorite experience, but it did lead to some creative roleplay for me, the party, and the Keeper.

My suggestion would be to discuss with the other players and see how they feel about having a blind party member. See whether they think it would be a fun party dynamic to manage or an investigative constraint on the rest of them. Their level of appetite for it might be as important as anything else.

[g33k]

7 hours ago, Joe Kenobi said:

I once played as a blind character—turned blind by a spell cast by an NPC I’d offended. It was admittedly not my favorite experience, but it did lead to some creative roleplay for me, the party, and the Keeper...

I would expect a recently-imposed "blindness" to be highly-limiting in many ways (much like other adversary-imposed curses or injuries would be).

Someone who has been blind for a long time, and has had [ years / decades / a lifetime ] to adapt, will have a very-different experience.

 

7 hours ago, Joe Kenobi said:

...  My suggestion would be to discuss with the other players and see how they feel about having a blind party member. See whether they think it would be a fun party dynamic to manage or an investigative constraint on the rest of them. Their level of appetite for it might be as important as anything else.

I agree -- this should be part of the discussion.  Depending on what the Keeper and the blind-PC player come up with together, the other players may be more (or less) willing to go along with it.

[Bill Mize]

8 hours ago, Joe Kenobi said:

My suggestion would be to discuss with the other players and see how they feel about having a blind party member. See whether they think it would be a fun party dynamic to manage or an investigative constraint on the rest of them. Their level of appetite for it might be as important as anything else.

This, this, this.

Too often, I find that when someone new to the game wants to do something ridiculous ("I want to be a cult member!" "I want to be a Deep One!" or possibly in this case, "I want to be blind!") after a bit more private discussion with the player, it tends to be a bit of "Look at MEEEEEE!"ism happening.

They don't want to be a member of a team, they want to be the point of focus at the table and have a starring role, showing off their smarts, their wit, or their dramatic skills.

Me, personally, I nip it in the bud!

- Bill

 

[g33k]

1 hour ago, Bill Mize said:

... I find that when someone new to the game wants to do something ridiculous ("I want to be a cult member!" "I want to be a Deep One!" or possibly in this case, "I want to be blind!") after a bit more private discussion with the player, it tends to be a bit of "Look at MEEEEEE!"ism happening ...

This is certainly also a possibility.

I wouldn't just presume so, and issue a blanket-no edict.

[Darius West]

On 3/29/2023 at 8:32 AM, Zouabar said:

I can't help but wonder if I'm forgetting some crucial mechanic that will come back to bite me as a Guardian though… Does anyone have any insight or advice that could apply to this situation ? I'd be really grateful ! Thanks in advance 🙂

Hi Zouabar,   

I think I know this exploit your player is attempting.  There is a protagonist character in August Derleth's works who is blind named Laban Shrewsbury.  While Laban has developed the ability to "see without seeing" he can get around unhindered by his lack of sight due to his magical ability.  The benefit of blindness is that "if you can't see the monster you don't take a SAN check" in CoC, or at least that is some people's thinking.  The corrolary being that even the most ghastly noises could barely be considered more than a 1d6 SAN loss.  Experienced CoC players know that a low Spot Hidden and a high Listen will often similarly help a character's longevity.

I strongly suspect your player is aware of this and is trying to "game the system".   It is worth noting that guide dogs for the blind don't really start in earnest until 1929 in Canada, and only become a "thing" in New Jersey in 1931 if you allow this attempted rort.  Frankly, just have a cultists keep stealing their canes and leading them into sewers if you are prepared to accept such munchkinery. 

[Mike M]

On the topic of monster induced Sanity loss - in Malleus I changed the classic sentence of "lose XX Sanity when you see XX monster" - to - "lose XX Sanity when you encounter XX monster"

It is the experience (sight, sound, smell, aura, feeling, touch, taste, etc.) - the summation of this is the effect it has upon the character and confronts their reason/expectations of the world/universe they live in. Thus, sight is only one (minor) aspect of the effect a monster has in terms of inducing fear/Sanity loss. 

 

 

[soltakss]

One of our HeroQuest characters was Crap Rangali, a blind swordman. He started off as the idea of a swordman who became blind made him useless, hence the name, but ended up more like Blind Fury.

So, it can be done, and very successfully. He had some great moments, not always due to being blind.

Sure, there are some things where being blind can be an advantage, but many more things where it isn't advantageous, so don't listen to the chorus of people saying "He's only trying to game the system".

 

 

 

[g33k]

@Zouabar -- If you come to even suspect that your player may be attempting to "game the system," there may be some preemptive steps you can take.  In fact, these are likely called-for anyhow, to make sure you and the player are "on the same page" with regards to their character.

Stress the very visceral nature of odors.  Some smells have profound impacts upon us, upon our emotions, etc.  Look this up on Google, and be prepared to point out the simple reality that someone can close their eyes or turn away from disturbing sights, but they cannot stop breathing.

Ultrasonics and subsonics are known to have odd effects on people; "Havana Syndrome" is suspected by some of being caused by a sonic-based weapon.

Synaesthesia doesn't care about "blindness" or any other sensory incapacity; it will mess with you no matter what.

We can take it as given -- as a GM, I would take it as given -- that someone blind (whose other senses are more-sensitive in compensation) will be more-susceptible to these sorts of things.  Yes, they may occasionally benefit from being less susceptible to a largely-visual horror; but more often they will notice (and suffer comparable SAN loss) from other sensory elements; and occasionally, they'll need to make SAN rolls vs. weirdness that nobody else can detect ! 
 

[Atgxtg]

I woundn't be all that concerned about SAN loss. Not being able to see some Mythos nasties might avoid some SAN loss, but not seeing the Shoggoth, Byakhee, Deep One, etc. in the room probably leads to consequences at least as severe as SAN loss.  Dead is probably as bad as crazy.

I wound't say that Library Use would be impossible either, depending on the era being played in. Modern libraries have sections for the blind. No reason why some Mythos related book couldn't be in braille (eek more SAN loss!). 

 

I think the key points here are really:

• Why does the player want a blind character -i.e. is is a good concept.
• What does the character bring to the table , that is what can the character do to aid in the investigations. Somebody might have a good character concept that doesn't translate well into roleplaying or into a CoC campaign. 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2023 by Atgxtg

[g33k]

7 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

... No reason why some Mythos related book couldn't be in braille (eek more SAN loss!) ... 

☝️ THIS! ☝️

They're reading the braille, and can -- just barely -- feel that there is something that's ... squirming -- underneath the page they are on... but the next page is just a page, there's no room for anything to be there, squirming.

Or maybe the page sags, just a hair; like there's an empty spot under the page, it's not supported by the next sheet of paper, and the next after that.

The rest of the party can't feel a darned thing, of course... but then, their fingers can barely notice the braille itself.

Damned fools are basically touch-blind.

...

They might as well not even have any fingers!

...

They don't deserve to have their fingers...

...

Edited April 1, 2023 by g33k

[Nozbat]

We would be interested in your feedback @Zouabar

[1d8+DB]

I wouldn't discount the 'psychic influence' of the Mythos. Just finished F. Paul Wilson's 'Conspiracies', the 3rd book in his 'Repairman Jack' series, which is Mythos 'adjacent'; and there's definitely a kind of mental miasma in places where the 'Otherness' has bled through (the hotel hosting the SESOUP conference and the basement of Melanie's house). 

Obviously in no way canonical, but it suggests how entities of Mythos might just radiate 'wrongness' in a non-visual way. 

[Atgxtg]

17 hours ago, g33k said:

☝️ THIS! ☝️

They're reading the braille, and can -- just barely -- feel that there is something that's ... squirming -- underneath the page they are on... but the next page is just a page, there's no room for anything to be there, squirming.

What I think would be a good way to go with this would be to introduce some legendary wizard who was blind. Perhaps with his own form of tactile based communication that predates braille. That would open the door to all sort of Mythos lore and nastiness geared towards the blind. Mythos tomes that have unique knowledge and spells, Mythos nasties that can only be interacted with by the blind (like the Medusans from Star Trek TOS, which could easily fit into the Mythos), and other that only threaten those who cannot see them. 

 

Another possibility   would be to pruse the idea of blind people having thier other four sense being enhanced and that somehow allows them to perceive something that the rest of us cannot. Maybe thier sixth (or seventh?) sense is enhanced somehow?

 

[Zouabar]

First of all I really thank you all for your input, I didn't expect to have so many replies in this fairly short amount of time and you all raised good points ! I'm going to try to adress some of it without getting lost in the sauce :

On 3/30/2023 at 2:49 PM, Joe Kenobi said:

My suggestion would be to discuss with the other players and see how they feel about having a blind party member. See whether they think it would be a fun party dynamic to manage or an investigative constraint on the rest of them. Their level of appetite for it might be as important as anything else.

I'll admit I was so focused on *how* to make blindness work within the mechanics and framework of the game I kind of neglected to ask *other* players how they'd feel about it, I'll bring it up with them for our sessioon zero.

On 3/29/2023 at 8:57 PM, g33k said:

Honestly, I don't see any way to compensate for the issue of "Combat," unless you're going with a very-magical setting and letting your "medium" character summon spirits to attack foes (Chaosium's RuneQuest RPG (which uses the same BRP chassis that Call of Cthulhu does) has spirit-combat rules, if you wanted to go this way; you should be able to directly-port those rules over, with only very-minimal hacking).

I was completely unaware of such a mechanic, I'll check it out and discuss it with my players, see how they all feel about it (I don't want the blind PC relying too much on other PC, especially for combat, for fear it would impact the group dynamic negatively).

 

 

[andyl]

On 4/1/2023 at 10:58 PM, Zouabar said:

I was completely unaware of such a mechanic, I'll check it out and discuss it with my players, see how they all feel about it (I don't want the blind PC relying too much on other PC, especially for combat, for fear it would impact the group dynamic negatively).

I will also mention that at various times the PCs have ran for their lives - either to the nearest car, or through tunnels, or even down hills on rough terrain.  In some cases you might handwave this as you don't really want to punish the player but in others it could easily seem too unrealistic to the other players especially if the fleeing requires climbing through windows, jumping across gaps etc.  Obviously if you are writing your own scenario you can make sure you don't have any of that (or you can choose a scenario that doesn't) but I think it would add a bit of a constraint on the Keeper.

[SunlessNick]

On 4/1/2023 at 9:36 PM, Atgxtg said:

What I think would be a good way to go with this would be to introduce some legendary wizard who was blind. Perhaps with his own form of tactile based communication that predates braille. That would open the door to all sort of Mythos lore and nastiness geared towards the blind.

Some books are also mystical by their nature.  The King in Yellow, Black Tome of Alsophocus, and Testament of Carnamagos are arguably avatars of Hastur, Nyarlathotep, and Quachil Uttaus in themselves - if they want to be read, they'll be read, braille or no.

[Atgxtg]

10 hours ago, SunlessNick said:

Some books are also mystical by their nature.  The King in Yellow, Black Tome of Alsophocus, and Testament of Carnamagos are arguably avatars of Hastur, Nyarlathotep, and Quachil Uttaus in themselves - if they want to be read, they'll be read, braille or no.

It could well be. A lot of Mythos stuff is more that what we (can) perceive it to be or (can) understand. Since much of the Mythos is so alien to our understanding there all all sorts of possibilities.

 

Hmm, what about a creature that can be seen by all creatures, even those that normally cannot see? 

[EricW]

I think you could have a lot of fun with this. There are cases in stories where someone averts their gaze or lose consciousness and avoid SAN loss - I mean, you can't lose SAN loss from seeing Deep Ones in the distance if you are blind. But if they come up for a cuddle, I'd maybe charge double SAN loss, being touched by something horrible and alien, feeling trapped and helpless - how traumatic would that be?

And after a while, when the disadvantages become too much, you could offer the PC an opportunity to learn some mythos sight spell, say a tablet written in an ancient dialect of brail. Then san loss for everyone - a person without eyes who can see, and the PC themselves having their perceptions widened maybe a little too much, like X-ray vision, or limited perception of other realms. And don't forget when it comes to mythos, if you can see them, they can generally see you.

Edited April 10, 2023 by EricW

[ShaunR]

A blind PC - or a PC with any sort of disability is totally acceptable. Just as people afflicted with loss of sight IRL get by - so can a PC. Give them a bigger Listen Base and turn  Spot Hidden into Scent in order to offset their increase in other senses.The creatures of the Mythos are not just something horrible to see - they often have odor of decaying bodies or vegetation, make horrendous sounds and give off an aura of horror even if you can't see them. Sure they won't take Sanity losses from "glimpsing" something but think of the horror that comes with hearing something inhuman in the room with you - or feeling its breath on the back of your neck. Have them make a POW roll to "sense" the unnatural thing in the room or across the field and if they do - hit them with the same SAN checks as everyone else.

To dismiss it - or suggest that someone would only want to play a character with a disability as a sole grab for attention as has been suggested in this thread - is incredibly small minded and reductive. As a Keeper who has run games for players and PCs who have been blind I speak from experience and am all for keeping TTRPGs moving in the direction of more accessibility and inclusivity. And no discussion or vote is needed from the other players - whom I sure didn't have to get the approval from the group when creating their own PCs.

Edited May 3, 2023 by ShaunR

[g33k]

1 hour ago, ShaunR said:

...

To dismiss it - or suggest that someone would only want to play a character with a disability as a sole grab for attention as has been suggested in this thread - is incredibly small minded and reductive...

And yet, several of us in the thread have seen this kind of player:  spotlight-hogs, munchkins, etc... players who want to play this concept for some metagame "advantage."

Very few of us are presuming it's this kind of player.

But simply making the suggestion (as a point to be aware of) or acknowledging a potential issue isn't at all "small-minded and reductive."
Your blanket accusation is, in its own way, as "reductive" as you are accusing us of being.

At a bare minimum, the GM needs to keep all the sensory&sanity channels in mind, for such a character in a CoC game; and taking time (ahead of time) to work out some of this stuff is entirely appropriate.

 

2 hours ago, ShaunR said:

... I speak from experience and am all for keeping TTRPGs moving in the direction of more accessibility and inclusivity. And no discussion or vote is needed from the other players - whom I sure didn't have to get the approval from the group when creating their own PCs.

I think it's a good point -- throwing an extra gatekeeping step in this way  is  singling-out one character, likely inappropriately.

"Session Zero" should include a brief synopsis of each character, and if the table is OK with each concept that should be the end of it.  If any particular player(s) have an issue with another player's concept... then that's something that needs to be worked out; possibly between the two players, possibly including the GM, possibly as a whole-table issue.

But if the whole table has a problem with one character-concept... that's a different issue entirely.

It may be that the whole table is simply in the wrong... I've been there (at a sexist table); spoke up, did not carry the day, did not go back there.  I've also spoken up, and got the sexists to back down.  The GM needs to ask themselves:  if they're convinced the player just wants to explore an interesting concept (and is not trying to metagame the campaign), but they cannot get the table to accept this... what are their options?  How far are they willing to push this principle?  That too is part of the prep-work they should plan to do.

But maybe the other players will spot some other issue; a mechanical glitch or unresolvable issue.  That too should be brought up; maybe they can just plot around the glitch.