Other magical "Sense"s ?

[g33k]

Storm Bull gets "Sense Chaos" & Humakt gets "Sense Assassin"

I suspect it will come down to "YGWV," but has anyone seen (or created) any other magical "Sense <X>" abilities?

"Sense Truth" maybe for Yelm, or Lankhor Mhy?

"Sense Iron" for Trolls, or Elves?

Maybe a regular Cult feature in Your Glorantha?
Maybe a special reward, that can be won on a Heroquest?

[mfbrandi]

Detect ?

————————————————————————————
Immunity to Detect Chaos/Law Skills - an Illuminate will
not register to either type of sense …

Immunity to Detect Chaos/Law Spells - an illuminated
person will not register on either type of spell.

— Cults of Terror PDF, p. 86
————————————————————————————

Although I like the idea of a chaos cult with immunity to an ability that does not exist. And they might say that about sense chaos, too: “Can you smell on me, Storm Bull? No. But I am hiding nothing. I have nothing to hide. And you are just a bullshitter.”

[Ormi Phengaria]

There are the Elder Race senses of Darksense, Elfsense, and Earthsense. Chalana Arroy additionally has a tricorder:

Quote

An initiate of Chalana Arroy can identify the presence of disease in a person or thing, simply through concentration.

And Orlanth is the weather man:

Quote

Since they worship the King of the Storm gods, initiates of Orlanth can always tell when a change in the weather is coming. Wind Lords and Storm Voices can tell approximately what the weather will be one day in advance.

So there is quite a lot, actually!

[Godlearner]

7 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

Detect ?

Krashti get Sense Law.

In the past games we had following:

• Sense Lunar
• Sense Dragon
• Sense Spirit
• Sense <Rune>

[metcalph]

3 hours ago, Godlearner said:

Krashti get Sense Law.

"Got" might be more accurate.  Krarsht's Sense Law was based on the Cults of Terror conception of her as the anti-Storm Bull which was kinda silly.  

[Godlearner]

14 minutes ago, metcalph said:

which was kinda silly.  

Sense Assassin in kind of silly. Sense Law makes sense as it focuses on a Rune.

IMO, Humakti should have gotten a Sense Undead skill instead the Detect Undead or Sense Assassin.

[JRE]

I usually give most major cults minor magics, and some of them can be considered a supernatural sense, using rune affinity as I do not really want to make them a skill. So far we have seen God talkers and above of Ernalda sense pregnancy upon concentration, using the Life Affinity, Lankhor Mhy Identify Language (using Truth), Issaries Fair deal (to know if the trade is fair or not) using Harmony, and Humakt sense weapon quality using Death. That just spots if a weapon is better than normal or worse, not any specifics. But I am willing to give extra uses to high deity Rune affinities, though usually linked to a cult that owns that rune. Another benefit of being close to your deity ideals.

[French Desperate WindChild]

On 7/16/2023 at 9:16 AM, g33k said:

"Sense Truth" maybe for Yelm, or Lankhor Mhy?

what I understood is "sense XXX"  is "sense something you hate", if you want something you like or just something you look for, it is more the spell "detect XXX"
 

XXX sense (for dwarves, elves, trolls) is for me a "natural sense" (as human have sound-sense, visual-sense, etc...)

 

but i m not sure if it is my own interpretation of the rules or the choice of the designers

[Squaredeal Sten]

20 hours ago, JRE said:

I usually give most major cults minor magics, and some of them can be considered a supernatural sense, ....... , Issaries Fair deal (to know if the trade is fair or not) using Harmony, and Humakt sense weapon quality using Death. That just spots if a weapon is better than normal or worse, not any specifics.....

On the other hand, for an expert swordsman to evaluate a sword doesn't seem magic to me.  An alternative would be to simply use the sword skill or to make it an augment to Evaluate.  And on a success I would give specifics, for example if a masterpiece is +10% to hit the Swordsman should know that it has uncommonly good balance and lightness. 

 Similarly an Issaries has the Evaluate skill and should be able to tell whether a deal is fair, and to augment it with another cult skill.

Edited July 18, 2023 by Squaredeal Sten
spelling / typing

[Rodney Dangerduck]

6 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

On the other hand, for an expert swordsman to evaluate a sword doesn't seem magic to me.  An alternative would be to simply use the sword skill or to make it an augment to Evaluate.

Agreed.

Same for evaluating a Horse or other mount - use Ride to choose the "best" one and as a possible augment to Evaluate.

[Shiningbrow]

17 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

On the other hand, for an expert swordsman to evaluate a sword doesn't seem magic to me.  An alternative would be to simply use the sword skill or to make it an augment to Evaluate.  And on a success I would give specifics, for example if a masterpiece is +10% to hit the Swordsman should know that it has uncommonly good balance and lightness. 

 Similarly an Issaries has the Evaluate skill and should be able to tell whether a deal is fair, and to augment it with another cult skill.

Yeah, I figured that was largely the point to augments, and I presume that using Runes to augment basic skills sort of got tacked on later.

[Jeff]

On 7/16/2023 at 9:16 AM, g33k said:

Storm Bull gets "Sense Chaos" & Humakt gets "Sense Assassin"

I suspect it will come down to "YGWV," but has anyone seen (or created) any other magical "Sense <X>" abilities?

"Sense Truth" maybe for Yelm, or Lankhor Mhy?

"Sense Iron" for Trolls, or Elves?

Maybe a regular Cult feature in Your Glorantha?
Maybe a special reward, that can be won on a Heroquest?

Nope. Storm Bull and Humakt are among the very few with specialised sense abilities. 

[JRE]

20 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

On the other hand, for an expert swordsman to evaluate a sword doesn't seem magic to me.  An alternative would be to simply use the sword skill or to make it an augment to Evaluate.  And on a success I would give specifics, for example if a masterpiece is +10% to hit the Swordsman should know that it has uncommonly good balance and lightness. 

 Similarly an Issaries has the Evaluate skill and should be able to tell whether a deal is fair, and to augment it with another cult skill.

For me those are mundane, and I am looking at the effect as a minor magic. So the Humakt will know if a sword has killed, and how best to use it, not because he knows swords, but because he is Death. That allows him to detect magical effects that only act in combat. Anyone skilled in swords could spot a masterpiece. This detects other influences, other powers. Such as being a humakti gift weapon, even if you cannot benefit from it, or other magical effects, though it will not know what, they will know if it is there. The same with a cursed or badly made weapon.

As well, fair trade as seen from Harmony is not just that the value is the same, but also if with that amount the seller family will still starve to death, or if the seller does not value or need the object so its value should be much less than the nominal. Not the surface value you get from Evaluate, but what exchange would give a positive sum for both sides. That for me is the fairness of the Issaries rune, mechanically represented as Harmony affinity. Often that means selling expensive to the rich and cheap to the poor, and buying in the opposite way. For an Issaries, an unbalanced trade may be better for their soul and make a friend forever, an unvaluable gift. That is magic.

In the Ernaldan and pregnancy, it is not using medicine to recognize symptoms. It is your own life recognizing the new life.

It is about adding a little magic to a magic world.

I just took the well known Orlanthi weather sense and applied something similar as cult magical effects. And it shows Rune affinities in a different light. It goes beyond augment, and in some cases it may be cumulative, which the rules do not allow. 

[g33k]

15 hours ago, Jeff said:

Nope. Storm Bull and Humakt are among the very few with specialised sense abilities. 

Dammit, Jeff!

"Among the very few" sounds almost precisely the same as "Yes, but only a very few others."  🤨
But you summarize this as "Nope."

😉

Edited July 19, 2023 by g33k
nope

[PhilHibbs]

On 7/18/2023 at 10:37 AM, Jeff said:

Nope. Storm Bull and Humakt are among the very few with specialised sense abilities. 

The way you say that with finality makes it sound like there's mythic logic behind it. That there's something special about them, some reason why extra senses are rare and limited to only a few cults, that something unusual happened to those deities to give them an extra sense that their followers can access. Is there more to it?

There have been similar questions about gifts and geases for a long time. I don't know if that ever got answered either...

[Shiningbrow]

14 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

There have been similar questions about gifts and geases for a long time. I don't know if that ever got answered either...

Of course it was answered.... YGMV!

[soltakss]

In my last Gloranthan Campaign as a GM, we had Sense Genert which was really Sense Earth Deity, as it was morphed to detect bits of Tada as well.

I have no problem with Sense (Whatever) being gained as a HeroQuest ability, so Sense Darkness for Yelmalians and so on.

[hasevir]

Sense criminal even someone just contemplating a crime! From the seven mothers redemption of criminals subcult thru a cult of hard knocks.

Also sorcerers, when they start figuring out they can design spells start making spells for detecting EVERYTHING. Being able to basically tell what armor everyone is wearing under cloaks, if they carry arms and of what materials and more. And ofcourse if their employers can pay them at all.

[Squaredeal Sten]

Detect everything should be a huge magic point sink, sorceror or not..  

Even a combined detect weapons, armor, and asassins/ criminals/ enemies should be a huge magic point sink.  Let it run for a while and you won't have the MPs left to deal with a serious threat.

And similarly, a "sense" that duplicates that for free seems to me to be an exercise in munchkinry.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by Squaredeal Sten
Spelling / typing

[French Desperate WindChild]

21 hours ago, soltakss said:

In my last Gloranthan Campaign as a GM, we had Sense Genert which was really Sense Earth Deity, as it was morphed to detect bits of Tada as well.

I have no problem with Sense (Whatever) being gained as a HeroQuest ability, so Sense Darkness for Yelmalians and so on.

heroquesting is a key for a lot of things, I agree

I would just add that "gains" should be, in my opinion, based on what do the pcs during the heroquest.

And would not say "sense darkness" (as it is a troll sense) more "see in the dark": same effect, but not from the same sensors, poor yelmalian, already ridiculous, and you want to give them troll habilities ?!

 

[Agentorange]

On 7/16/2023 at 5:06 PM, Ormi Phengaria said:

 

And Orlanth is the weather man:

 

I strongly disagree. John Kettley is the weatherman.

[Shiningbrow]

On 7/24/2023 at 3:42 AM, soltakss said:

so Sense Darkness for Yelmalians and so on.

Would totally suck for them half the time!!! (actually, probably more than half the time, unless buildings have LOTS of windows or candles/lanterns)

 

On 7/25/2023 at 12:19 AM, Squaredeal Sten said:

Detect everything should be a huge magic point sink, sorceror or not..  

Even a combined detect weapons, armor, and asassins/ criminals/ enemies should be a huge magic point sink.  Let it run for a while and you won't have the MPs left to deal with a serois threat.

And similarly, a "sense" that duplicates that for free seems to me to be an exercise in munchkinry.

 

 

Nah! Why worry about it? Especially if it takes concentration. And, perhaps even better if it doesn't (way too much intrusion into their life). There are so few rare occasions when it's actually useful the way the PCs would want.

PC: "I focus on my Detect Weapons/armour spell"

GM: "Sure... you sense.... LOTS of them around you! Everyone is glowing... and rather concerned about it and looking for the reason why (i.e. - you!)"

Assassins, criminals, enemies... (well, enemies is already in the list of standard Spirit magic spells)... criminals would need to be specified - cos most people have done something against a law... in the middle of Clearwater or Pavis, I'd expect almost everyone to light up, cos they've all done something against the Lunars at some point - including theft, tax evasion, plotting against them, etc. Assassins would be useful - but only on occasions. Sure, useful if you want to root out a Blackfang Brotherhood somewhere, and so Humakti would love you for it - but that's about it.

 

So, personally, I wouldn't have a problem with it. In fact, not having or allowing such spells would be against the MGF rule - this is Glorantha, a very magic rich world, and so such spells make sense (I know you haven't suggested they shouldn't be there! I'm just going further with your point).

You have suggested they should be very MP intensive - well, any useful version already is! You want a decent range, and unless the PC is intending to cast it regularly (and take that time to cast), then it'll need a good Duration.  Anything half useful is going to need a good 8MPs or more... (IF they have the right Runes).