Woof ! canine deities of Glorantha ?

[Agentorange]

Over on the RQG facebook page there  has been a brief discussion of Ironjaw the Dog. Which got me wondering...what other canine deities exist  inGlorantha. obviously we've the aforementioned Ironjaw, Telmor springs to mind, i seem to remember the Book of Drastic Resolutions mentioning Canis Chaos.

Anybody know of any others, regardless of edition, supplement, or gaming system ?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/RuneQuest/posts/2616740261835290/?comment_id=2616800518495931&reply_comment_id=2616835361825780

Edited August 27, 2023 by Agentorange

[mfbrandi]

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/greg-sez/doggods/

[Agentorange]

20 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/greg-sez/doggods/

Aha ! thank you

[jajagappa]

16 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/greg-sez/doggods/

You can largely view these working into three main Dog deities:

Telmor - the wild, undomesticated Dog

Brother Dog (who is under different guises, Erindamus of the DH or Ensoval of Saird, and undoubtedly other names elsewhere) - the domesticated companion Dog. Generally this is also the father of various dog breeds such as Rowdril the War Hound of Saird; the Fine-toothed Hound of Imther; and whatever other dog children you want to create.

Jajagappa - the dog-headed Death god who leads the Lost Pack and the Hell Hounds and ensures that the souls of the Dead go to the Underworld.

[Ian Absentia]

Isn't Rowsby Woof a hero/demigod among the rabbit hsunchen peoples?

!i!

Edited August 26, 2023 by Ian Absentia

[Agentorange]

35 minutes ago, Ian Absentia said:

Isn't Rowsby Woof a hero/demigod among the rabbit hsunchen peoples?

!i!

More of a spirit of retribution.....mind you I have heard he sometimes manifests in the role of The Bad Dog for young rabbit shaman.

[AndrewTBP]

Orlanthi are cat people. To be precise, Orlanthi are alynx people who hate dogs, partly because of the Chaos demon Narangros who nearly slew Yinkin the alynx god before Orlanth rescued his friend. Narangros is more commonly known as Bad Dog, since most people aren't comfortable calling demons by name. 
— 13th Age Glorantha p. 270

I don’t recall seeing Narangros mentioned elsewhere, but I use the spawn of Narangros in my campaign frequently because my player characters are strong in the Beast rune. Odayla, usually. 😉

Edited August 26, 2023 by AndrewTBP

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, AndrewTBP said:

I don’t recall seeing Narangros mentioned elsewhere

Narangros is in my opinion a title (probably means "Bad Dog") which may variously be used to describe Telmor or Jajagappa or one of the powerful Hell Hounds.

[Jeff]

5 hours ago, Agentorange said:

Over on the RQG facebook page has been a brief discussion of Ironjaw the Dog. Which got me wondering...what other canine deities exist  inGlorantha. obviously we've the aforementioned Ironjaw, Telmor springs to mind, i seem to remember the Book of Drastic Resolutions mentioning Canis Chaos.

Anybody know of any others, regardless of edition, supplement, or gaming system ?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/RuneQuest/posts/2616740261835290/?comment_id=2616800518495931&reply_comment_id=2616835361825780

OK, the most common dog god is some variation of Brother Dog. He lets you Understand Dog and Conquer Beast. 

There's a few other dog-headed gods, like Jajagappa, but they are not really a God of Dogs. 

Telmor is not a dog god - he's a wolf god. And although they are clearly related animals, they are not the same and the cults dislike each other.

[Joerg]

6 hours ago, AndrewTBP said:

Orlanthi are cat people.

Such as the Greydog clan?

The majority of Heortlings are Alynx people. Other Orlanthi have different birth places for Orlanth, and as a consequence they may have different birth siblings of Orlanth.

Top of the World is the major birth place for Orlanth besides Kero Fin, the Great Mountain for Orlanthi from Fronela, Slontos, Ralios and western Peloria, including the Talastari. The Sairdite dog people are in the intersection of these two Great Mountains.

6 hours ago, AndrewTBP said:

To be precise, Orlanthi are alynx people who hate dogs, partly because of the Chaos demon Narangros who nearly slew Yinkin the alynx god before Orlanth rescued his friend. Narangros is more commonly known as Bad Dog, since most people aren't comfortable calling demons by name. 
— 13th Age Glorantha p. 270

The Bad Dogs usually are a collective of deities similar to the Storm Brothers, with occasional break-out appearances of an individual. They get a bit of screen time in King of Sartar. Narangros weirdly enough gets his screen time for wounding Mastakos rather than Yinkin, who still "lost his fiery breath to the Bad Dogs".

Canis Chaos goes back to Griffin Mountain, where it is called Chavgaz, the God-Gobbler - one of the Eleven Big Giants, Dolog, sits upon it, avenging it wounding his friend Tada.

[Agentorange]

8 hours ago, Jeff said:

OK, the most common dog god is some variation of Brother Dog. He lets you Understand Dog and Conquer Beast. 

There's a few other dog-headed gods, like Jajagappa, but they are not really a God of Dogs. 

Telmor is not a dog god - he's a wolf god. And although they are clearly related animals, they are not the same and the cults dislike each other.

That's why I said Canine as opposed to Dog, On earth canine would also include, Foxes, Jackals, Coyotes etc - though I appreciate this doesn't have to apply to Glorantha. Are there deities ( large or small ) associated with those creatures ?

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Agentorange
Calrification of thought process

[Joerg]

Fox and Coyote are typical Trickster beasts.

[French Desperate WindChild]

7 hours ago, AndrewTBP said:

Orlanthi are cat people. To be precise, Orlanthi are alynx people who hate dogs, partly because of the Chaos demon Narangros who nearly slew Yinkin the alynx god before Orlanth rescued his friend. Narangros is more commonly known as Bad Dog, since most people aren't comfortable calling demons by name. 
— 13th Age Glorantha p. 270

I don’t recall seeing Narangros mentioned elsewhere, but I use the spawn of Narangros in my campaign frequently because my player characters are strong in the Beast rune. Odayla, usually. 😉

by the way, I remember somewhere in that forum Jeff said that Orlanthi have dogs too. Alynx arte sacred, but dogs may be useful too (before his post, I believed the same that you said : "orlanthi hate dogs" but it seems less "passionate")

[Ian Absentia]

14 hours ago, Joerg said:

Fox and Coyote are typical Trickster beasts.

I joked up-thread about Rowsby Woof, a character in folk stories from Watership Down, but a Fool rather than a Trickster.  Apparently that's what you get for being domesticated.  Wile E. Coyote suffers a similar indignity for resorting to The Man's technology.

!i!

[Orlanthatemyhamster]

Rowdril, is that Lodril with a lisp? Who dreams this stuff up? Lay off the wacky backy mate.

[jajagappa]

26 minutes ago, Orlanthatemyhamster said:

Rowdril, is that Lodril with a lisp? Who dreams this stuff up? Lay off the wacky backy mate.

Greg in that case. 😉 

Me in the cases of Ensoval and Erindamus.

[Akhôrahil]

On 8/28/2023 at 10:03 PM, Orlanthatemyhamster said:

Rowdril, is that Lodril with a lisp? Who dreams this stuff up? Lay off the wacky backy mate.

Still not as bad as how Shanasse and Shanassee are two unrelated terms.

[PhilHibbs]

On 8/26/2023 at 11:32 PM, AndrewTBP said:

Orlanthi are cat people.

On 8/27/2023 at 6:35 AM, Joerg said:

Such as the Greydog clan?

85% of Orlanthi are cat people...

[GMKen]

Since we’re bringing up trickster canids and mentioning Watership Down, I’d like to add Brer Fox to the mix, from the Uncle Remus Tales, as well as Renart, the French trickster fox from Le Roman de Renart, both of which are excellent reads. (Can’t vouch for an English language translation of the Tale of Renard, as I read it in French.  I’m not too hip on most translations, so prefer the original source language).

Brother Dog is the best, as any Balazaring can tell you.  Here’s a rare gift that they will sometimes give:

Good Boy Totem

When imbued with 1 point of POW, this small dog skull will “guard” an area 5m in radius for a period of 8 hours.  All creatures within the area of effect at the time of casting are recognized as “friendly” and may pass in and out of the area of protection.  Any other creature SIZ 3+ which enters the area will trigger a vigorous barking audible only to “friendlies”.  The activator, only, can reset the “guard” function with an audible “chirp, chirp”.  As Balazarings -always- travel with their dogs, they don’t need these themselves, though sometimes solitary hunters in rough country may have one as backup protection.  These are rarely gifted to outsiders, usually as the result of some extraordinary contribution by the giftee to the tribe or hunter.

[Joerg]

15 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

85% of Orlanthi are cat people...

Make that "Dragon Pass Orlanthi", generously allowing for Heortland, Aggar and Holay to be included. Shadowcats are tied to Kero Fin, after all, and while Lightbringer missionaries may have taken them along to awaken more distant peoples (or just their memories of Storm myths), those more distant Orlanthi are not cat people. If you include the Esrolians, maybe 20% of the Orlanthi in Glorantha are "Dragon Pass Orlanthi".

Of course your gaming might never encounter any Orlanthi from outside of that region, especially not if you stick to the officially released adventures (other than Riskland which allows for Orlanthi from elsewhere to join Renekot's tribe).

Maniria, Ralios, Fornoar, southwestern Peloria and Fronela provide the rest of the Genertelan barbarian belt, with no significant populations of alynxes mentioned anywhere. And when it comes to Umathela, I wonder whether there are any shadowcats down there at all.

How these distant Orlanthi are supposed to be cat Nazis when they don't have any sort of feline to offer somewhat reliable cooperation is beyond me.

 

Vanchites are Raccoon people, Sylilings are Bear People, Fronelans are Bull People unless they are Bear People or Boar People without any preferred carnivorous companion defined.

Pendali were Lion people, and some of their descendants still are (such as Greymane), but that doesn't make them Cat People. Alynxes appear to belong to the same group of "small felines" (or purring felines) as housecats, wild cats, cheetahs, pumas/cougars, rather than the large cats from the Panthera family (lion, tiger, jaguar, leopard) or the lynx family.

Edit: At the Dawn, the Praxian Tribes were somewhat modified Orlanthi pastoralists without any cats but keeping and cooperating with dogs. 

Edited September 2, 2023 by Joerg

[Brootse]

Zutchko's Teeth from Griffin Mountain allowed you to speak to dogs and wolves, was Zutchko some dog/wolf god or spirit? In the Griffin Island Zutchko Dog-Father replaced Brother Dog, but in the Mountain the name only appeared in the name of the magic item.

[Ian Absentia]

On 9/1/2023 at 2:36 PM, PhilHibbs said:

85% of Orlanthi are cat people...

But their cats behave like dogs, so does that make them side-door dog people?

!i!