Pronunciation

[Joerg]

2 hours ago, lordabdul said:

So how do you pronounce "wyter", "tarshite", and "sartarite"?

Wyter - like "y" (as you pronounce the letter) + "terr". Even when discussing the term in German. I would never have that even guessed that it might rhyme to "litter".

Which is strange because I talk about Hüalor and Hükim and Miküh (really "MEE küh") using the frontal umlaut sound that doesn't exist as a separate phoneme for most English-speaking people. In the case of Hykim, I am astonished about the "high-kim" pronunciation because it is really Mikyh backwards, and Mikyh has that "MIK yuh" guidance that resembles the typical English-speaker's attemmpt at pronouncing the German "ü". (In Finnisch I'd probably spell and pronounce them as "Hyykkim" or "Hyykkiim" and "Miikkyyh".)

(Hüalor actually is something of a pun, as "Hüh" is the German spoken command to speed up a horse, and the rest can be pronounced like the French "alors").

 

Unlike Simon, I don't put a glottal stop into this "shite" (being above conscious avoidance of anal/fecal puns, and I guess that during the Lunar occupation the people in Sartar made a point of avoiding that glottal stop, too), rather failing to separate it from the previous syllable, and then "Sar - tah - rite" all with the a sound from "far" (or as German and other phonetically written languages use the letter). In English usage, only, in German it is "Tarsheet" (usually followed by "-ish", spelled Tarschitisch, when talking about the language or using it as adjective, or followed by "-en" if talking about several or all members of that kingdom (Tarschiten). Same for Sartar, but with a soft "s" leading as German doesn't do sharp S at the beginning of a word, and the weird German "r" sound.

As a rule, I use "-ier" as the plural form and "-isch" as the adjective/language form for English adjectives or national monikers endin on "-ian", like Ralian, Esrolian, and I leave the "it" from such monikers ending on "-ite". (There are people who write "Sartarier" as the German plural form of Sartarites, but that makes me cringe.) I'll pull the brakes at the "it" in "Alakoringite", though.

I generally use the German pronunciation of Latin names, like Malia, although my English pronunciation of Ralios has that "a" rather like the Danisch "a" (as in English "bad"), while my German pronunciation has the long a like in "father".

Oh, and my German pronunciation of Orlanth, Glorantha, Argrath has a "t" sound rather than the English "th". Don't enforce it on Germans unless you have a spittle fetish.

I tend to do most of my writing and talking (and hence thinking) about Glorantha in English, but the names mostly still sound German in my mind. When reading Scandinavian texts or trying to read French texts on Glorantha, same effect.

Heort and Heortling are missing from the pronunciation guide cited above. In German, I would use a very short "ay" sound for the "e" in Heort without any consonant-"y" sound as not quite a diphtong, while in English I'd probably go for "h-yort" and possibly "hay-yort" when talking to a mixed audience at a convention in Germany.

Would the names "Heort" and "Hiord" sound different to you? If so, how?

[jajagappa]

18 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Wyter - like "y" (as you pronounce the letter) + "terr".

Agree.

For "Tarshite" - the base I pronounce like "harsh", the ending like "bite". When combined it tends towards "TARSH-ite"

For "Sartarite" - both "sar" and "tar" pronounced like tar/bar/car and with equal weight, so "SAR-TAR-ite"

[soltakss]

6 hours ago, soltakss said:

Coming from England, people pronounce all kinds of words differently, even if you move 10 miles/15 kilometres away, so I've never really bothered with "how" something might sound.

There you go - Three people and three different pronunciations. I rest my case, M'Lud.

[Sir_Godspeed]

Nothing about Jrustela?

That's a name that popped out to me immediately as "someone definitely just made this up for a laugh."

My best guess is "Dzh(e)'-RUST-ela", but I have no idea.

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Nothing about Jrustela?

That's a name that popped out to me immediately as "someone definitely just made this up for a laugh."

My best guess is "Dzh(e)'-RUST-ela", but I have no idea.

As a German, I think "Jrust" should be a single syllable. It is not like English doesn't have similar consonant atrocities like e.g. "thrift". But then, I use a very throaty rolling "r" sound overlapping with the zh sound to pronounce that.

I generally add the consonant(s) before the "-ela" to the final syllable, so my pronunciation is closer to dzhroos-TE-la. (Claiming the German/North English pronunciation of the vowel.)

I reserve glottal stops before vowels to word beginnings or to separate syllables ending on a vowel sound from the following starting with a vowel sound unless there is a word separation. Spirits-addled shouldn't be pronounced spirit-saddled, but other than such cases, I'd combine the vowel with the preceding consonant. IMO the "e" in "-ela" acts as a flection of the previous name. Mavorela - Mavor's land, Genertela - Genert's land.

Related question - Jrusteli: ending in "-ly", or in "-ligh"? My (German/phonetically pronounced Latin influenced) instinct would be the "-ly" as in "friendly".

[Sir_Godspeed]

22 minutes ago, Joerg said:

But then, I use a very throaty rolling "r" sound overlapping with the zh sound to pronounce that.

I have subconsciously also used an uvular trill (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uvular_trill). I can't quite make the Dzh and R fit together otherwise. It's easier to change from a sound made in the front of the mouth to the back of the mouth for me. Granted, I come from the Throaty (uvular)-R part of Norway, so it's pretty much just cultural bias.

If I were to use an alveolar trill (ie. a Scottish or Spanish-style R), it would be markedly more pressure there, as it's a lot of change to shift between two different sounds produced in the same part of the mouth.

There's obviously the American/Irish-style R as well, (postalveolar approximant or Retroflex approximant), but since it's produced in the back of the mouth, the points for the uvular trill kinda ring true here too, although it's going to be a more "buzzy" sound overall, going from "dzh" to an American "rrr". It's not too far off from the word "Journey"... sorta. 

22 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Related question - Jrusteli: ending in "-ly", or in "-ligh"? My (German/phonetically pronounced Latin influenced) instinct would be the "-ly" as in "friendly".

I'm influenced by Latin and Tolkien's Quenya, and automatically assume that any ending -i is prononounced as the vowels in "lid" or "leave" (the first being short, the other long, but otherwise identical).

Edited May 19, 2019 by Sir_Godspeed

[trystero]

11 hours ago, lordabdul said:

So how do you pronounce "wyter", "tarshite", and "sartarite"?

• WĪ-tər (homophone for English adjective "whiter", rhymes with "brighter" and "lighter")
• TARSH-īte (rhymes with "marsh-bite")
• SAR-tər-īte (rhymes with "tar-fur-bite")

I'm American and rhotic, and so pronounce all four of the "r" letters, where non-rhotic English speakers would, I believe, only pronounce the second "r" in "Sartarite".

[Lordabdul]

Awesome thanks everyone!

[Bill the barbarian]

On 10/22/2015 at 8:21 PM, Harry the Dirty Dog said:

We had a discussion in a campaign long ago whether is was Pay-vis, Pah-vis or Pa-vis.  We ended up deciding that Pavisites, Northern Sartarites, Southern Sartarites and Lunars all say it differently.

The very first time I heard it pronounced Payvus was in a Dirk the Dice podcast. I was thinking it wrong and enchanted all at the same time. Alas, I have never travelled in a land where dialects and accents change in a days walk, but I can well imagine and think, wow that is cool. I need that for my game. Thus, I will have to agree with Harry the Dirty Dog here.
Chacun à son goût. 

Cheers

Edited May 20, 2019 by Bill the barbarian

[Ian Absentia]

On 10/22/2015 at 5:36 AM, Steve said:

How do you pronounce "Hsunchen"? Is the "s" silent? Or the "H"? Or am I trying to over-complicate it and both of the first two letters are pronounced?

Embrace the Aspirated H...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspirated_h
(...but ignore the vowel structure.)

!i!

Edited May 20, 2019 by Ian Absentia

[Lordabdul]

Do you people pronounce "Orlanthi" in a way that it rhymes with "bee" ("OR-lan-thee") or with "sky" ("OR-lan-theye")?

[Oracle]

18 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

Do you people pronounce "Orlanthi" in a way that it rhymes with "bee" ("OR-lan-thee") or with "sky" ("OR-lan-theye")?

Me goes with the "bee" ... 😉

[Bill the barbarian]

Personally, the former.

[Lordabdul]

Ok thanks

[The Hooded Claw]

Similarly, is it PAY-vis or PAH-vis?

[jajagappa]

20 minutes ago, Addison said:

Similarly, is it PAY-vis or PAH-vis?

PAY-vis for me.

[Bill the barbarian]

On 10/22/2015 at 6:36 AM, Steve said:

How do you pronounce "Hsunchen"? Is the "s" silent? Or the "H"? Or am I trying to over-complicate it and both of the first two letters are pronounced?

 

I'll let Louis and Ella say it for me.

Edited May 21, 2019 by Bill the barbarian

[Sir_Godspeed]

1 hour ago, Addison said:

Similarly, is it PAY-vis or PAH-vis?

I go with PAH-vis.

Admittedly, an open-mouthed AH is a bias from my mother tongue.

[jajagappa]

On 10/22/2015 at 8:36 AM, Steve said:

How do you pronounce "Hsunchen"? Is the "s" silent? Or the "H"? Or am I trying to over-complicate it and both of the first two letters are pronounced?

I pronounce it as "h-SUN-chen" with the "h" sort of like "huh" - much like saying "Ge-SUND-heit".

[Kloster]

10 hours ago, lordabdul said:

Do you people pronounce "Orlanthi" in a way that it rhymes with "bee" ("OR-lan-thee") or with "sky" ("OR-lan-theye")?

I'm going with 'bee', but with a shorter sound (I'm french).

 

9 hours ago, Addison said:

Similarly, is it PAY-vis or PAH-vis?

For me, 'PAH-vis' (ditto).

 

7 hours ago, jajagappa said:

I pronounce it as "h-SUN-chen" with the "h" sort of like "huh" - much like saying "Ge-SUND-heit".

Same for me.

[Revilo Divad Of Dyoll]

Of no import, but I pronounce them:

OR-lan-thee

PA-vis (pa as in pack)

XUN-chen (the Chinese sound that was originally transliterated as "hs")

[Lordabdul]

2 hours ago, Revilo Divad Of Dyoll said:

XUN-chen (the Chinese sound that was originally transliterated as "hs")

Oh that's a very interesting point. A quick research shows that Pinyin was only adopted as an ISO standard in 1982 so when the early Glorantha material was written, the prominent romanization system in the US must have been the Wade-Giles system, which indeed (if I'm reading this table right) was using "hs" for the, ahem (adjusts non-existent glasses) "voiceless alveolo-palatal fricative" sound. Woohoo who knew linguists had such fun names for sounds.

[trystero]

"Orlanthi": last syllable rhymes with "bee".

"Pavis": first syllable rhymes with "pay", though it doesn't sound wrong if that syllable instead rhymes with "bah".

[soltakss]

In our gaming group we have PA-vis (rhymes with pa as int pat), PAY-vis and PAH-vis (rhymes with far or car).

[Bill the barbarian]

3 hours ago, soltakss said:

In our gaming group we have PA-vis (rhymes with pa as int pat), PAY-vis and PAH-vis (rhymes with far or car).

You know, I like that answer. It makes good real World* sense. 

* Glorantha, that is.

Cheers