Pre-Gens

[Psullie]

Just picking through the Pre-Gens and spotted Harmast's relatively low Communications and Magic modifiers. I'm sure all will be explained with the full release, but are these typos or are their other factors involved?

[Oracle]

Values for Harmast's Communication and Magic abilities and modifiers are the same as in the Quickstart module, so I guess they are correct ...

[Mankcam]

I like the pre-gens, but I don't really like to start off at that level (although I didn't like RQ2 dirtcrawler start all that much either), so I tend to have beginning characters in the average proficiency range if possible. However if I run RQG I will just have to remember that the characters need to be experts before attempting any official scenarios, otherwise I'll be looking at a few TPK situations

Also that Lhankor Mhy follower was interesting. Quite high combat skills, I always felt that they were more indoor Sage types. Yes there were those adventuring scholars but I didn't think their combat skills would have been that high.

I like the artwork, you can really see the ancient world flavour of the characters. I'm suprised how D&D ish it looks, however that is not a bad thing if it gets people to try the system out. I think the RQG book is gonna look pretty good

[Noita]

My all time fave pc was my Sword Sage. Kicked ass and read. At the same time.

[Jeff]

7 hours ago, Mankcam said:

I like the pre-gens, but I don't really like to start off at that level (although I didn't like RQ2 dirtcrawler start all that much either), so I tend to have beginning characters in the average proficiency range if possible. However if I run RQG I will just have to remember that the characters need to be experts before attempting any official scenarios, otherwise I'll be looking at a few TPK situations

Also that Lhankor Mhy follower was interesting. Quite high combat skills, I always felt that they were more indoor Sage types. Yes there were those adventuring scholars but I didn't think their combat skills would have been that high.

I like the artwork, you can really see the ancient world flavour of the characters. I'm suprised how D&D ish it looks, however that is not a bad thing if it gets people to try the system out. I think the RQG book is gonna look pretty good

Christine wanted to have her scribe be able to fight as well (her idea was to create a "Gloranthan Lara Croft"). Having the adventurers start at a solid proficiency with their chosen specialties does is open up options at the start of play. Combat is still deadly and challenging, but now the players can at least execute a well-planned ambush. The adventurers feel competent, not particularly powerful (and they are still a good dozen adventures away from any becoming Rune Masters - we've had over twenty adventures with them and only one has made Rune Master). 

[simonh]

The pre-gens are right about the level of competency I like to start my PCs at (1). Jeff's comment about being able to execute a well planned ambush is spot on. It's no fun playing a character if you only have about a 50/50 chance of doing anything useful. This is particularly important for non-combat skills because usually the outcome of an entire activity is governed by a single roll. At least combat is a bit more of a statistics game.

Also, you can tame high skills a bit with situational modifiers. It always seems a bit brutal to impose a -20% modifier or half chance on someone with a 50% or 60% skill, but if they're at 80% it seems more reasonable. After all, the skill % on the sheet only means anything relative to the expected difficulty of tasks. As a GM I find that useful, and more satisfying than handing out positive modifiers to make easier tasks more achievable. If a task is easy, what are we rolling for it?

EDIT:

(1) http://www.poppyware.com/dunham/glorantha/elric/chargen.html

Actually I was a bit more generous, I wanted players to be able to start characters off at beginning Priest or Shaman level.

Simon Hibbs

Edited May 25, 2018 by simonh

[Jeff]

3 minutes ago, simonh said:

The pre-gens are right about the level of competency I like to start my PCs at. Jeff's comment about being able to execute a well planned ambush is spot on. It's no fun playing a character if you only have about a 50/50 chance of doing anything useful. This is particularly important for non-combat skills because usually the outcome of an entire activity is governed by a single roll. At least combat is a bit more of a statistics game.

Also, you can tame high skills a bit with situational modifiers. It always seems a bit brutal to impose a -20% modifier or half chance on someone with a 50% or 60% skill, but if they're at 80% it seems more reasonable. After all, the skill % on the sheet only means anything relative to the expected difficulty of tasks. As a GM I find that useful, and more satisfying than handing out positive modifiers to make easier tasks more achievable. If a task is easy, what are we rolling for it?

Simon Hibbs

Agree fully!

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, Jeff said:

Combat is still deadly and challenging, but now the players can at least execute a well-planned ambush.

Not to mention survive Spirit Combat!

[Mankcam]

Just not my thing I guess. I kinda like the sense of achievement of getting average characters up to expert level.

Nothing against starting characters at higher proficiency, although it seems like that should be an option rather than a default.

I can understand an adversion to zero-to-hero however, as starting as a beginning dirtcrawler isnt a great default either.

RQ2 was a shocker in that regard! Yes it had its charm, but every character begining as a kid who could barely swing a small cudgel was no fun at all. Death at the hands of every trollkin band!

The BGB was quite useful in that way that you picked how seasoned you wanted characters to be at the start of a campaign. That was a winner for me.

Anyway these pregens are pretty cool. That 'Gloranthan Laura Croft' particularly stands out!

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Mankcam

[Mugen]

16 hours ago, Psullie said:

Just picking through the Pre-Gens and spotted Harmast's relatively low Communications and Magic modifiers. I'm sure all will be explained with the full release, but are these typos or are their other factors involved?

Can't say for Magic (which didn't exist then), but his other modifiers fit RuneQuest 2 charts (I guess Agility is based on RQ2 Parry skill modifier, and Communication on Oratory skill modifiers).

In RQ2, CHA, INT and POW can all contribute to Oratory bonus. CHA needs to be 13+, but INT and POW require to be as large as 17 to do so.  The higher the stat, the higher the bonus gets.

So, Harmast gets +5 from his INT, but nothing from his other characteristics.

I don't have a clue how his Magic bonus is computed. Both Vasana and Yanioth have lower INT and POW, but there Magic bonus is +10%. And Vishi Dunn, whose INT and POW are both above 17, only gets +10%.

Perhaps the total MP plays a role, but I still don't understand why Vishi Dunn only has +10%.

[Jeff]

2 minutes ago, Mugen said:

Can't say for Magic (which didn't exist then), but his other modifiers fit RuneQuest 2 charts (I guess Agility is based on RQ2 Parry skill modifier, and Communication on Oratory skill modifiers).

In RQ2, CHA, INT and POW can all contribute to Oratory bonus. CHA needs to be 13+, but INT and POW require to be as large as 17 to do so.  The higher the stat, the higher the bonus gets.

So, Harmast gets +5 from his INT, but nothing from his other characteristics.

I don't have a clue how his Magic bonus is computed. Both Vasana and Yanioth have lower INT and POW, but there Magic bonus is +10%. And Vishi Dunn, whose INT and POW are both above 17, only gets +10%.

Perhaps the total MP plays a role, but I still don't understand why Vishi Dunn only has +10%.

Magic is ONLY POW and CHA, not INT. Much, perhaps most, Gloranthan magic has nothing to do with one's ability to deal with abstractions and memorisation, but has everything to do with the power of one's soul and the strength of your personality. 

[simonh]

12 minutes ago, Mugen said:

I don't have a clue how his Magic bonus is computed. Both Vasana and Yanioth have lower INT and POW, but there Magic bonus is +10%. And Vishi Dunn, whose INT and POW are both above 17, only gets +10%.

I think CHA affects the Magic bonus. The CHA attribute in RQG is far more important than in any previous edition of RQ. It's seen as at least partly to be force of personality. It affects relationships with spirits too, so is important for Shamans.

Simon Hibbs

EDIT - Cross post with Jeff!

Edited May 25, 2018 by simonh

[Y Mab Darogan]

You know I’m planning out a game using Mythras next but if I can knock my groups expectations out of the park I’m so selling on a Glorantha game afterwards.

Im really falling in love with the setting and it seems everything your doing in the game will make it so they emphasise each other.

Who knows maybe after those two I can finally get them to retire the d20 😉

[Psullie]

22 minutes ago, HorusArisen said:

Who knows maybe after those two I can finally get them to retire the d20 😉

Hit Locations 😀

[styopa]

3 hours ago, Jeff said:

Magic is ONLY POW and CHA, not INT. Much, perhaps most, Gloranthan magic has nothing to do with one's ability to deal with abstractions and memorisation, but has everything to do with the power of one's soul and the strength of your personality. 

Even sorcery?

2 hours ago, HorusArisen said:

Who knows maybe after those two I can finally get them to retire the d20 

There you go, the most detailed rpg hit location table ever.  Iirc it was d1000.

[Y Mab Darogan]

That’s nuts

[Mugen]

3 hours ago, Jeff said:

Magic is ONLY POW and CHA, not INT. Much, perhaps most, Gloranthan magic has nothing to do with one's ability to deal with abstractions and memorisation, but has everything to do with the power of one's soul and the strength of your personality. 

Oh, I see.

Old RuneQuest 3 habit, where Magic was INT and POW primary, and DEX secondary.

But there was no CHA in RQ3, only APP.

[Psullie]

8 hours ago, Jeff said:

Christine wanted to have her scribe be able to fight as well (her idea was to create a "Gloranthan Lara Croft"). Having the adventurers start at a solid proficiency with their chosen specialties does is open up options at the start of play. Combat is still deadly and challenging, but now the players can at least execute a well-planned ambush. The adventurers feel competent, not particularly powerful (and they are still a good dozen adventures away from any becoming Rune Masters - we've had over twenty adventures with them and only one has made Rune Master). 

Not wanting to derail the thread, but it must be wired to have your PC's illustrated by profession artists then thrust in to the limelight... 

[Psullie]

4 hours ago, Jeff said:

Magic is ONLY POW and CHA, not INT. Much, perhaps most, Gloranthan magic has nothing to do with one's ability to deal with abstractions and memorisation, but has everything to do with the power of one's soul and the strength of your personality. 

This needs to be highlighted, in bold with flashing lights! As an underlying concept this feeds directly into the feeling of Glorantha. 

[soltakss]

1 hour ago, HorusArisen said:

That’s nuts

Aftermath! had a hit location specifically for nuts - Most male players bought special armour for that particular hit location.

[Jeff]

20 minutes ago, Psullie said:

Not wanting to derail the thread, but it must be wired to have your PC's illustrated by profession artists then thrust in to the limelight... 

There are pros and cons to being part of my gaming group.

[Richard S.]

33 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Aftermath! had a hit location specifically for nuts - Most male players bought special armour for that particular hit location.

We actually had a joke rule that if you rolled a 69 ( on the attack against a male opponent they were incapacitated for the rest of the turn.

[jajagappa]

6 hours ago, Mankcam said:

RQ2 was a shocker in that regard! Yes it had its charm, but every character begining as a kid who could barely swing a small cudgel was no fun at all. Death at the hands of every trollkin band!

I don't recall any of my players ever having a character who didn't go through Advanced Experience.  That was really the minimum to be able to play.

When I ran the Quickstart, my reaction to the pre-gens and how my players ran them was that each had: one or two skills that would have been a bit higher than initial RQ3 characters; rune magic that they could use and was interesting for them to use; an ability to defend against some spirits; and an ability to try to augment/boost other skills through runes and passions.  

As it was there were still rather challenging moments against rock lizards, Idrima, and the dream-weft spirits.

And I felt they would not overwhelm any published adventures, whether Rainbow Mounds, Snakepipe Hollow, River of Cradles, or Borderlands.

[trystero]

On 5/25/2018 at 12:23 PM, styopa said:

There you go, the most detailed rpg hit location table ever.  Iirc it was d1000.

It was, indeed. I loved that game (for what it was).

For those who don't recognise it, the left and right images in that graphic are from the Advanced Damage Tables supplement for a 1980s game called Phoenix Command, which wasn't so much an RPG as a gun-combat rules system with tons and tons of detail, written by a literal rocket scientist. It's complete overkill (pun intended) at the rules level, but remarkably satisfying as a way to scratch the "crunch" itch… but so completely focused on its one area of specialty as to be useless at anything else. (Try attacking a horse or indeed making a hand-to-hand attack without having purchased the appropriate supplements.)

I adore RQ for feeling gritty and crunchy without actually descending into sanity-blasting Phoenix Command-like levels of detail. (See? Brought it back 'round on topic by the end.)

[Mugen]

On 5/25/2018 at 7:46 PM, soltakss said:

Aftermath! had a hit location specifically for nuts - Most male players bought special armour for that particular hit location.

French game Celtic Legends had a location for the lower pelvis area.

Funnily enough, it was number 13.