Charisma

[womble]

So I just read the Charisma rune spell properly and it sank in: it doubles your CHA. And increases your Spirit Magic learnt-cap. While it notes that the limited duration of a Temporal spell

might make this latter increase somewhat academic, the ease of Extending the spell up to a year's duration prompts two questions:

1. What happens when the extra CHA goes away? Do you just forget the Spirit Magic? Can you overwrite your Charisma before its anniversary to avoid there being any hiatus in your improved score?
2. Does this improvement also increase your limit of Rune Points per Cult? I guess that's asking for an interpretation as to whether the text simply omits mentioning Rune Points as an oversight. And that leads to a followup question: if your Charisma spell does increase your potential pool of Rune Points, what happens to those points greater than your natural CHA if your spell lapses somehow (is dispelled or you just can't get it re-cast in time)? Do they vanish for good, or just become unusable until your CHA goes back up? This same question applies to normal CHA loss; I couldn't find anywhere that mentioned it.

As a GM with liberal tendencies I'd be inclined to allow the increased CHA to do whatever natural CHA would do, thus permitting increased Rune Point pools, and I'd have the character's Deity hold any surplus Rune Points generated by CHA loss (for whatever reason) 'in trust' until CHA increased again. Spirit Magic would be forgotten though; that seems pretty clear, though I would allow overwriting up to the anniversary day too, in order to preserve the benefits.

[PhilHibbs]

I'd file that under "egregious munchkinnery". It isn't permanent, and those are workarounds to make its benefits effectively permanent.

[jajagappa]

3 minutes ago, womble said:

So I just read the Charisma rune spell properly and it sank in: it doubles your CHA. And increases your Spirit Magic learnt-cap. While it notes that the limited duration of a Temporal spell

might make this latter increase somewhat academic, the ease of Extending the spell up to a year's duration

So you've just spent 6 Rune Points to double your CHA for a year.  Now you are down 6 rune points until they can be replenished - probably a seasonal holy day as that will give you 2d6 points back (typically 7) with a successful Worship.

10 minutes ago, womble said:

What happens when the extra CHA goes away? Do you just forget the Spirit Magic? Can you overwrite your Charisma before its anniversary to avoid there being any hiatus in your improved score?

You can no longer hold all the extra Spirit Magic you've acquired.  I think it follows along the lines of p.254 "An adventurer can voluntarily give up knowing a spirit magic spell to make room for different new spells."  If you've lost the CHA to hold the Spirit Magic, then you must give up knowing X number of spirit magic spells.

I don't believe you can overwrite the spell.  You could dismiss it, then cast again, but that will initiate some hiatus.

15 minutes ago, womble said:

Does this improvement also increase your limit of Rune Points per Cult? I guess that's asking for an interpretation as to whether the text simply omits mentioning Rune Points as an oversight. And that leads to a followup question: if your Charisma spell does increase your potential pool of Rune Points, what happens to those points greater than your natural CHA if your spell lapses somehow (is dispelled or you just can't get it re-cast in time)? Do they vanish for good, or just become unusable until your CHA goes back up? This same question applies to normal CHA loss; I couldn't find anywhere that mentioned it.

Your rune points are limited by CHA.  If you increase naturally, that goes up, so should with an Extended Charisma spell too.  

If your CHA goes down then I'd say the rune points aren't lost until cast, but cannot be regained/restored.  If you subsequently go up again, then you must spend POW to get additional rune points.  You can get around this by having rune points with another cult (which are managed separately).

Similar considerations on binding spirits (limited by CHA/3).  As it notes on p.250 "After losing points of CHA, an adventurer must be very careful when dealing with their spirits. Trying to keep more spirits than the adventurer’s CHA characteristic allows gets the adventurer in trouble the first time they try to use one for anything. The spirit rebels unless the adventurer manages to roll CHA×5 or less on a D100."

[g33k]

11 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

I'd file that under "egregious munchkinnery".

OK.

Now I have to make a character named "E. Greejus Mon Shkinry" (or something similar).

[SDLeary]

..

Edited August 26, 2018 by SDLeary
Stupid Me

[jajagappa]

48 minutes ago, g33k said:

a character named "E. Greejus Mon Shkinry"

Sounds like the next great baboon hero (unless it's a trollkin?).

[Zozotroll]

Yes baboon comes to mind.  Not sure there are trollkin heroes.  Other than to other trollkin

[jeffjerwin]

14 minutes ago, Zozotroll said:

Yes baboon comes to mind.  Not sure there are trollkin heroes.  Other than to other trollkin

All troll kin who survive to adulthood are heroes. Perhaps not brave, or glorious, or mighty. But as tough as a barnyard cat, anyway.

[soltakss]

8 hours ago, Zozotroll said:

Yes baboon comes to mind.  Not sure there are trollkin heroes.  Other than to other trollkin

Neep Troll-Killer, from http://www.glorantha.com/docs/trolls/ 

Neep Troll-Killer was a trollkin of superior qualities, the only of his kind during this period. Such sports, with much higher health, intelligence, and power than usual, occasionally occurred but were generally slain while young, so to prevent trouble when they got older. Neep evidently went unnoticed, and escaped to Dragon Pass where he was befriended by the cult of Geo. He grew up to hate all trolls who misused their weaker kin, and trollkin everywhere often followed him rather than their own tribe. He was known for his skill at making trollbane weapons. He worshiped the god Humakt. He was fond of bright-colored clothes, and had a reputation among humans as being a seducer of dark troll women. He never drank liquor. He liked humans, but disliked elves, whom he thought were a bigoted lot.

[Zozotroll]

Is that the one they just did a kickstarter that included him?  If so, I backed that one already.

[jajagappa]

17 minutes ago, Zozotroll said:

Is that the one they just did a kickstarter that included him?  If so, I backed that one already.

I first recall Neep way back in Troll Pack if I remember correctly, but from the article it looks like he was even earlier in WF #6.  I don't recall a kickstarter including him.

[Zozotroll]

My mistake it is neepson the mantis rider

[soltakss]

Which Kickstarter was that?

[simonh]

On 8/25/2018 at 1:24 PM, jajagappa said:

If your CHA goes down then I'd say the rune points aren't lost until cast, but cannot be regained/restored.  If you subsequently go up again, then you must spend POW to get additional rune points.  You can get around this by having rune points with another cult (which are managed separately).

With you until this, as Phil pointed out it’s a workaround that makes at least some partial effects of the spell effectively permanent. If this were allowed, arguably it should be possible to sacrifice for one-use rune points beyond the normal limit.

[jajagappa]

1 minute ago, simonh said:

arguably it should be possible to sacrifice for one-use rune points beyond the normal limit.

That's probably the way to phrase it:  anything above your normal, unenhanced CHA would be treated as one-use rune points.

[simonh]

10 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

That's probably the way to phrase it:  anything above your normal, unenhanced CHA would be treated as one-use rune points.

Note I am not suggesting this as a rule, it’s just that what you’re efectively creating that as a rule via a back door. IMHO, once the Charisma spell ends, all it’s benefits go with it. Extra rune points and all.

[PhilHibbs]

I just thought of a great use for this. I want to really make my mark on the world, so I decide to create the biggest spell matrix ever. I get my CHA up to 21, and build up 21 Rune Points. But 21 is pathetic! So I cast Charisma on myself (or I get someone else to) extended for a year. Over the course of that year I get another 21 Rune Points. I get the gang together, and we all contribute POW to making a 42 point matrix. You can swallow an average rhino with that thing!

And of course it's Swallow, what were you expecting? You don't waste an amazing idea like this on something sensible! 😄

Edited August 26, 2018 by PhilHibbs

[jajagappa]

16 minutes ago, simonh said:

Note I am not suggesting this as a rule, it’s just that what you’re efectively creating that as a rule via a back door. IMHO, once the Charisma spell ends, all it’s benefits go with it. Extra rune points and all.

It's one of those undefined situations, and I could certainly go either way.  But even without the Charisma spell, CHA can drop.  Does the PC immediately lose the extra rune points they've spent good POW on?  I'd be inclined to be lenient and go with the "now one-use" effect.

[PhilHibbs]

20 hours ago, g33k said:

OK.

Now I have to make a character named "E. Greejus Mon Shkinry" (or something similar).

Don't get me wrong, there's a time and a place for munchkinnery, it can be a lot of fun. My MRQII game was one such place, and we had a blast.

[PhilHibbs]

57 minutes ago, simonh said:

With you until this, as Phil pointed out it’s a workaround that makes at least some partial effects of the spell effectively permanent. If this were allowed, arguably it should be possible to sacrifice for one-use rune points beyond the normal limit.

Well, not really. Extra MPs persist after Tap ends, but you can't just top up your MPs any old time outside of the Tapping or other specific detailed spell effects. So Charisma could have this side effect of leaving extra Rune Points hanging around until used, without extrapolating that anyone can do it without a similar spell.

[D]

4 hours ago, soltakss said:

Which Kickstarter was that?

 

[Zozotroll]

Beat me by seconds!

[soltakss]

1 hour ago, D said:

 

War in Glorantha, thanks. I thought I had missed one, but as it involves figures, there's no way my wife would let me anywhere near that.

[Yelm's Light]

Excellent job of painting those.

[Zozotroll]

6 hours ago, soltakss said:

War in Glorantha, thanks. I thought I had missed one, but as it involves figures, there's no way my wife would let me anywhere near that.

My Ex always let me get up a reasonable amount of new stuff.  But then she played also, as well as painted better than I do.