Earth Witch, Cat Witches, etc.

[jeffjerwin]

If an individual is a 'cat witch' (there are several in the lore) are they simply a rune priest[ess] of Yinkin, or are they likely also a shaman of Sedrodosa (or some other cult?) as well; and if the latter, how best to handle that?

 

[Bill the barbarian]

58 minutes ago, jeffjerwin said:

Sedrodosa

and who is Sedrodosa?

[jeffjerwin]

16 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

and who is Sedrodosa?

The Earth Witch, the animist or shamanic aspect of the Earth Cult. Worshipped by wise-women across Prax and Central Genertela.

[Joerg]

The best known "Cat Witch" is Onelisin, granddaughter of Sartar the Founder. I don't see any sign for her (or indeed any Yinkini) to be a spirit master - Yinkin's myths are quite explicit in that regard, he chose the gods of his half-brother over the spirits of his father.

[jeffjerwin]

34 minutes ago, Joerg said:

The best known "Cat Witch" is Onelisin, granddaughter of Sartar the Founder. I don't see any sign for her (or indeed any Yinkini) to be a spirit master - Yinkin's myths are quite explicit in that regard, he chose the gods of his half-brother over the spirits of his father.

That's kind of what I thought. The 'witch' aspect implies some degree of 'left-handedness' in the magic department, but perhaps there's some sort of secret where Yinkin's battles with the spirits also saw him conquering some of them? This sort of semi-shamanism would be hostile, but also invested with some sort of mythic power.

[jajagappa]

10 hours ago, jeffjerwin said:

If an individual is a 'cat witch' (there are several in the lore) are they simply a rune priest[ess] of Yinkin

Yes. A good example in SKoH p.180 is Dorasa the Cat-witch: 
Dorasa is a notorious thief and bandit, but is as famed for her dark beauty as for her crimes. She is said to have many lovers including at least one Sartarite king and a senior Lunar general who has been tasked with capturing her! Dorasa is a devotee of Yinkin and often takes the form of a large black shadowcat.

8 hours ago, jeffjerwin said:

The 'witch' aspect implies some degree of 'left-handedness' in the magic department

I don't know that it would be 'left-handed'. It's more their ability to utilize the natural surroundings to blend in, hide, transform their self, etc.  Also the ability to cheat death (aka nine lives).

 

 

[jeffjerwin]

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

Yes. A good example in SKoH p.180 is Dorasa the Cat-witch: 
Dorasa is a notorious thief and bandit, but is as famed for her dark beauty as for her crimes. She is said to have many lovers including at least one Sartarite king and a senior Lunar general who has been tasked with capturing her! Dorasa is a devotee of Yinkin and often takes the form of a large black shadowcat.

I don't know that it would be 'left-handed'. It's more their ability to utilize the natural surroundings to blend in, hide, transform their self, etc.  Also the ability to cheat death (aka nine lives).

I suppose the last is standard Divine Intervention in RQ, which isn't as uncanny, sadly.

[jajagappa]

28 minutes ago, jeffjerwin said:

I suppose the last is standard Divine Intervention in RQ, which isn't as uncanny, sadly.

In HQG, this is the Whispering Caves Feat
Yinkin cheated death or crippling injury nine times. The first was when Orlanth blew him from the cave, but raced to save him. If you heroquest to the Whispering Caves you can learn a feat to cheat certain death, just as Yinkin did. An Umbroli appears to provide help just when you need it, just as Orlanth appeared repeatedly to help Yinkin. You can use this feat to escape death eight times. Each time the Umbroli saves your life, he places a ring around your tail, which you will see in your alynx form.

In RQ, I'd make this a quest to the Whispering Caves upon Kero Fin where Yinkin must be blown from the cave and fall towards the earth. On a successful quest, they can a special Rune magic (Secret of the Whispering Caves, aka Nine Lives) as a special Divine Intervention which always calls/summons an Umbroli to their aid. The cost though is that they can never use standard DI, ever.

[g33k]

18 hours ago, jeffjerwin said:

The Earth Witch, the animist or shamanic aspect of the Earth Cult. Worshipped by wise-women across Prax and Central Genertela.

That's ... getting into some pretty obscure lore, there!

I mean... no hits on Glorantha.com OR on glorantha.wiki.com.

I do not recall that /EVER/ happening to me before.

(yes, yes... Google does find me a few hits.  But still.)

A-HA!  Missed an "r"  That's "Serdrodosa," which is a much-more-findable witch.

Edited May 6, 2019 by g33k

[jeffjerwin]

18 minutes ago, g33k said:

That's ... getting into some pretty obscure lore, there!

I mean... no hits on Glorantha.com OR on glorantha.wiki.com.

I do not recall that /EVER/ happening to me before.

(yes, yes... Google does find me a few hits.  But still.)

A-HA!  Missed an "r"  That's "Serdrodosa," which is a much-more-findable witch.

Yeah, sorry. The spelling of this one was wobbly in some of my sources, I apparently used the incorrect one.

[Bill the barbarian]

21 hours ago, jeffjerwin said:

The Earth Witch, the animist or shamanic aspect of the Earth Cult. Worshipped by wise-women across Prax and Central Genertela.

 

21 hours ago, Joerg said:

The best known "Cat Witch" is Onelisin, granddaughter of Sartar the Founder. I don't see any sign for her (or indeed any Yinkini) to be a spirit master - Yinkin's myths are quite explicit in that regard, he chose the gods of his half-brother over the spirits of his father.

Cheers

[Bill the barbarian]

3 hours ago, g33k said:

That's ... getting into some pretty obscure lore, there!

 

Glad to hear that my questions have depth, yeah.  ;• >

Edited May 7, 2019 by Bill the barbarian

[BalazarLightson]

Is there a Sedrodosa write up anywhere? I'd really like to build one for our home RQ game.

[g33k]

Edit -- thought I already did this, but the note I wrote ain't here...

Warning to folks new to Glorantha:  some of what follows is a deep dive into the minutia of Glorantha and the history of the evolution of the setting.  It points into some dark&dusty crevices of teh IntarWebz, and is of minimal use or interest, except to the most devoted delvers into said minutia.  You may face extreme boredom, confusion, SAN checks...  all at the same time.

On 5/7/2019 at 5:36 AM, BalazarLightson said:

Is there a Sedrodosa write up anywhere? I'd really like to build one for our home RQ game.

https://www.glorantha.com/docs/some-gods/   (scroll down)

https://www.glorantha.com/forums/topic/earth-witch-and-windstop/

I recall another page dealing with Kolat & Serdrodosa, & IIRC one other Shamanic tradition... but I cannot find that doc now.  😞

 

There is this hint... an old digest-list mail from Greg, with several now-dead links to content on Glorantha.com ...

https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/WorldofGlorantha/2009/7169.html

In that mailing, he links to 3 documents on Glorantha.com; none of the links are live, but I can find 2 of them, I think:  there is a "Kolat" and (as linked above) a Some-Gods.  He also links to a "Serdrodosa" doc, but I cannot find that one.  If the doc still exists, I fear it is un-linked from the website...

 

There are a LOT of hits via the "Library of Lhankor Mhy" master index of old content...

https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/swish-wrap.cgi?query=serdrodosa&submit=Search!&metaname=swishdefault&sort=swishrank

Most appear to be tangential, and/or concern material that no longer exists (in any way that I am finding online); but there is a LOT or e-archaeology to be dug into in that search above...  Also annoying signs of alternate spellings, not just "Sedrodosa" but also "Sedrosa" and maybe others...

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2019 by g33k
hazard alert -- SAN checks.

[BalazarLightson]

Some interesting reading after digging around a bit. 

I'm wondering if there is a link between Serdorosa and the Lady of the Wild, and even perhaps the unknown Goddess of the Elder Wilds. 

 

[Richard S.]

On 5/7/2019 at 7:36 AM, BalazarLightson said:

Is there a Sedrodosa write up anywhere? I'd really like to build one for our home RQ game.

It's not RQ, but there was a (semi?) official writeup for HQ1. You may be able to pull some from that.

Serdrodosa.pdf

[jajagappa]

9 hours ago, BalazarLightson said:

I'm wondering if there is a link between Serdorosa and the Lady of the Wild

I don't think there needs to be.  Lady of the Wild connects to Wild Places, aka uncivilized, and seems mostly related to the Hunt. Orogeria is probably connected in her guise as huntress.

Serdrodosa is more the "spirit" side of the Earth - that which hears and connects to all the multitudinous hordes of rock spirits, earth elementals, and beasts that traverse through the earth. 

[g33k]

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

I don't think there needs to be.  Lady of the Wild connects to Wild Places, aka uncivilized, and seems mostly related to the Hunt. Orogeria is probably connected in her guise as huntress.

Serdrodosa is more the "spirit" side of the Earth - that which hears and connects to all the multitudinous hordes of rock spirits, earth elementals, and beasts that traverse through the earth. 

I think perhaps a "link," yes.  An association, a familiarity.

Not an identity -- they are not the same!

But the "spirit" of a think is certainly linked to the thing -- the Wild, the Hunt, these impact (and are impacted by) Spirit actions.  Lion-spirits are hunters, etc.

[jajagappa]

33 minutes ago, g33k said:

the Wild, the Hunt, these impact (and are impacted by) Spirit actions.  Lion-spirits are hunters, etc.

The intersection of the Lady of the Wild and Serdrodosa will be where the spirits linked with both intersect, i.e. the dryads of wild groves with roots in the earth, the oreads of the untamed hills, the Serpent Mothers of secret caves that shelter beasts of the wild, etc.

[Zo Fo Draziw]

On 5/7/2019 at 6:29 PM, g33k said:

There is this hint... an old digest-list mail from Greg, with several now-dead links to content on Glorantha.com ...

https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/WorldofGlorantha/2009/7169.html

In that mailing, he links to 3 documents on Glorantha.com; none of the links are live, but I can find 2 of them, I think:  there is a "Kolat" and (as linked above) a Some-Gods.  He also links to a "Serdrodosa" doc, but I cannot find that one.  If the doc still exists, I fear it is un-linked from the website...

 

Hi,

I am the maintainer of glorantha.steff.in, and I made it behave better in finding external links. As I know most of the stuff is quite old, the links are likely to be outdated. So I inserted a link turnout that lets you choose to search the wayback machine for that page. Try it, it finds pages to all three links!

Have fun!

[Bill the barbarian]

2 hours ago, Zo Fo Draziw said:

I am the maintainer of glorantha.steff.in, and I made it behave better in finding external links. As I know most of the stuff is quite old, the links are likely to be outdated. So I inserted a link turnout that lets you choose to search the wayback machine for that page. Try it, it finds pages to all three links!

 

Wow, thanks that sounds great.

[Brootse]

3 hours ago, Zo Fo Draziw said:

Hi,

I am the maintainer of glorantha.steff.in, and I made it behave better in finding external links. As I know most of the stuff is quite old, the links are likely to be outdated. So I inserted a link turnout that lets you choose to search the wayback machine for that page. Try it, it finds pages to all three links!

Have fun!

Nice work!

[Shiningbrow]

On 5/15/2019 at 5:02 PM, Zo Fo Draziw said:

Hi,

I am the maintainer of glorantha.steff.in, and I made it behave better in finding external links. As I know most of the stuff is quite old, the links are likely to be outdated. So I inserted a link turnout that lets you choose to search the wayback machine for that page. Try it, it finds pages to all three links!

Have fun!

I clicked your link, and then went to the link about gender discrimination from Greg. Unfortunately, that goes to a 404

I figure it's not your responsibility, as it's the Glorantha site, but just want to mention

[Zo Fo Draziw]

3 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

I clicked your link, and then went to the link about gender discrimination from Greg. Unfortunately, that goes to a 404

I figure it's not your responsibility, as it's the Glorantha site, but just want to mention

I admit the link turnout is not not very clear, I will make this more obvious when I have time to. For now take a closer look to the text and both links: The 1st link tries to find the "original". That is a 404. The 2nd link calls the time machine, and they have a copy from 2008.

[David Scott]

5 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

I clicked your link, and then went to the link about gender discrimination from Greg. Unfortunately, that goes to a 404

I figure it's not your responsibility, as it's the Glorantha site, but just want to mention

The big problem with this site is that it's had at a number of different incarnations since I first snapshot it in 1997, so what was once there has either been taken down or not replaced or moved or renamed or just broken.

In the Kolat example, it was taken down when Kolat was published in the Sartar Companion. The web version was an unfinished version. See the Sartar Companion for the finished version.

Serdrodosa was also an unfinished version. It was overly complicated and doesn't now reflect how Earth Witch is understood. Earth Witch (and separately Kolat) is a spirit Cult and will appear in GaGoG (unless it gets cut 🙂)

From the some Gods link (these are a bit out of date to say the least):

 

Quote

 

Kolat

Kolat is the son of Umath and Kal, a spirit entity. The earliest winds were wild and untamed from every world that they came from. Only later, when Vingkot was king, did the winds finally become separated from each other. Then everyone discovered that Kolat was a spirit, not a god! But Kolat had, by that time, been a well accepted member of the Storm Tribe, and such is the Orlanthi way that no one objected. He became the sole male repository of spirit power among the Orlanthi. He is the male shaman of the Orlanthi, accepted by his peoples while still acknowledged to be strange by them. The Kolatings, as the shamans are called, are a necessary part of the pantheon, though actually rare among them, because everyone knows that Kolat, Orlanth's foreign companion, still defended the people when the Spirit World invaded in force. His particular foe has been, since then, Lord Karjakan, a Great Spirit of the Spirit World.

Serdrodosa

When Ernalda and her kin went to the Emperor's Court all of the goddesses went away from the Earth Tribe. The land seemed unnatural and wild. Her people wept. "Without Ernalda who can intercede for us?" they cried. But Ernalda, with her last breath, told them to find Serdrodosa. Serdrodosa was called the Earth Witch, and she worshipped spirits and so was an outcast and a crazy woman. Serdrodosa showed the tribe how to work with the Aradangi, or "spirits of the wild," and so they were at peace.

Orlanth brought Ernalda home, and they married. Most of the earth tribe returned to Ernalda, but a few worshipped in the ways taught by Serdrodosa. In the Gods War Ernalda protected Serdrodosa, even when Orlanth insisted that all spirit beings must be banished. Later, during the Great Spirit Invasions Serdrodosa protected whomever had protected her, so Ernalda was untouched and Orlanth was scorched by them. He has been angry at her ever since, and no man would ever join her tradition.

But when Ernalda and the goddesses did the Great Sleep in the Darkness, Earth Witch was still loyal and the Aradangi protected the people through the Darkness. At last Ernalda woke and her people joined her again, but a few remained with the Earth Witch, as always.

 

 

Shortly, there will be a solution to this, but it's going to be a lot of work.