Cult of Sartar

[Videopete]

Anybody got any info on the cult for the guy who apothosized in Dragonpass, started a kingdom and dynasty?

Edited April 6, 2020 by Videopete

[Jeff]

55 minutes ago, Videopete said:

Anybody got any info on the cult for the guy who apothosized in Dragonpass, started a kingdom and dynasty?

The cult of Sartar is the Cult of Orlanth Rex in Sartar. It is how the Sartarites approach Orlanth Rex at the level above the tribal.

[Sir_Godspeed]

15 minutes ago, Jeff said:

The cult of Sartar is the Cult of Orlanth Rex in Sartar. It is how the Sartarites approach Orlanth Rex at the level above the tribal.

Given that Sartar was basically a pacifist in his unification quest (if I've understood it correctly), does that alter the cult/Orlanth Rex idea in any significant way?

[Jeff]

3 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Given that Sartar was basically a pacifist in his unification quest (if I've understood it correctly), does that alter the cult/Orlanth Rex idea in any significant way?

Sartar himself never raised a weapon to harm others. But Sartar certainly had people who'd happily kill for him.

[7Tigers]

1 hour ago, Videopete said:

Anybody got any info on the cult for the guy who apothosized in Dragonpass, started a kingdom and dynasty?

I recommend to check Jeff's answers in FB similar topic:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/RuneQuest/permalink/1274988552677141/

[g33k]

8 hours ago, Jeff said:

Sartar himself never raised a weapon to harm others. But Sartar certainly had people who'd happily kill for him.

Sartar:  "Will nobody rid me of this meddleso-"

Everybody:  "Oooo!  Me! Me!  Pick Me!!!"

[Orlanthatemyhamster]

On 4/6/2020 at 3:30 PM, 7Tigers said:

I recommend to check Jeff's answers in FB similar topic:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/RuneQuest/permalink/1274988552677141/

Could you copy and past that here, please? Some of us aren't on Facecrook. 

[jajagappa]

34 minutes ago, Orlanthatemyhamster said:

Could you copy and past that here, please? Some of us aren't on Facebook.

Jeff's main notes there: Sartar is worshiped in Sartar as part of the Orlanth Rex cult. His priests are Orlanth Rex members descended from Sartar himself. As a Founder God he gets one additional spell - a variant of City Harmony that works in the cities and royal roads of the kingdom.

The key elements in the Sartar cult (which actually has a write-up but didn't make the G&G cut) are:

LAY MEMBERSHIP

Anyone in Sartar can join the cult of Sartar, even if they also worship other gods. Lay members form the famed City Militia of Sartar.

INITIATE MEMBERSHIP

REQUIREMENTS TO JOIN

Initiates must be members of a Sartarite tribe. Typically one must be born or marry into a tribe, but rituals of adoption exist. Initiates are citizens of Sartar's cities and entitled to participate in the assemblies of governance and justice. Only Initiates can own land in Boldhome or the other cities. Initiates may only worship gods friendly or associated with Orlanth. Sartar is normally worshiped in conjunction with Orlanth Rex.

REQUIREMENTS TO BELONG

Initiate need devote only 5% of their time and 1% of their income to the god.

RUNE SPELLS

Sartar provides the special Rune spell City Harmony. This spell works in any of Sartar's cities and along the Royal Roads.

RUNE PRIEST

Sartar's Priests must be members of the Sartar Dynasty and initiates of Orlanth. They must join the Orlanth Rex cult as part of becoming priests. They can become priests of Orlanth Rex as well.

SUBSERVIENT CULTS

Sartar the Builder - this is magic initially given to him by the dwarfs and then stolen by his son Saronil for the good of the kingdom. Provides Support.

Geo - provides hostels and lodgings

ASSOCIATED CULTS

Orlanth Rex - Detect Honor. Note that his priests are initiates of Orlanth Rex and worship Sartar as subcult of Orlanth Rex. Within Sartar, any initiate of Orlanth Rex may automatically become an initiate of Sartar without any special sacrifice of POW. For such initiates, Sartar is treated as a special subcult of Orlanth Rex.

Chalana Arroy - Heal Body

Eurmal - Clever Tongue

Issaries - Create Neutral Ground

Lhankor Mhy - Clairvoyance

[David Scott]

8 hours ago, Orlanthatemyhamster said:

Could you copy and past that here, please? Some of us aren't on Facecrook. 

Also here: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/catalogue/websites/facebook/2019-04-jeff-on-facebook/

[Jose]

I have a question for Jeff. How did the lunars extinguish the flame of Sartar in 1602? Because I am pretty sure it was not using a lot of sand and water 😁

Edited February 2, 2022 by Jose

[jajagappa]

4 hours ago, Jose said:

How did the lunars extinguish the flame of Sartar in 1602?

With a weapon called Jar-eel.

http://www.princeofsartar.com/comic/1-the-flame-of-sartar/

[Jose]

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

With a weapon called Jar-eel.

http://www.princeofsartar.com/comic/1-the-flame-of-sartar/

That, I know. But how? Heroquest? Ritual? Some kind of banishment? 

[jajagappa]

53 minutes ago, Jose said:

But how? Heroquest? Ritual? Some kind of banishment? 

Does it need to be that explicit? 

Let's consider it a ritual magical challenge.  She calls upon Sartar to produce a living heir to defend the Flame.  No living heir appears.  There is no defender.  She blows softly upon the flame (or pinches it between her fingers) and it goes out.

[French Desperate WindChild]

37 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Let's consider it a ritual magical challenge.  She calls upon Sartar to produce a living heir to defend the Flame.  No living heir appears.  There is no defender.  She blows softly upon the flame (or pinches it between her fingers) and it goes out.

or/and in a more divine perspective "She calls upon Sartar to produce an active god to defend the Middle Air. No god appears. There is no defender. the red moon is now the queen of middle air in Sartar ?

[Richard S.]

I'd imagine, since the Flame is the manifestation of Sartar's (the person) spirit, it could have been something akin to a spirit combat beatdown until he's too weak to keep the flame going anymore.

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

"She calls upon Sartar to produce an active god to defend the Middle Air. No god appears. There is no defender. the red moon is now the queen of middle air in Sartar ?

Except that Sartar is already apotheosized - he is the god.  And there is no one there to invoke him or call upon him in defense. 

Orlanth still exists (until he is "killed" in 1621), and there is no temple to the Reaching Moon yet, so until those occur we don't have the Red Moon ruling the middle air in Sartar.

[Jose]

4 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Does it need to be that explicit? 

Let's consider it a ritual magical challenge.  She calls upon Sartar to produce a living heir to defend the Flame.  No living heir appears.  There is no defender.  She blows softly upon the flame (or pinches it between her fingers) and it goes out.

I am asking because if there is a heroquest involved you will have to confront nasty-beautiful Jar-eel. But a ritual, well I think is open to modifications in some way. 

[Eff]

I'd say that it's a little interesting that the Flame of Sartar could be extinguished while there were still heirs, and at least one of them would probably be known or knowable. After all, Kallyr's heritage is known well enough for her to be the only candidate viable as Prince in 1613, even if Temertain and Argrath are obscure. But of course, it's probably less about blood quantum and more about whether you can meet Sartar's standards. Temertain probably had a nominal commitment to Orlanth (Salinarg might have had a similar level as well, so perhaps that Flame was burning a little low between 1600 and 1602 already...) and we all know by now how Kallyr failed to keep her head in the clouds but instead had her eyes on the skies. But then again, when Argrath lights the Flame again, by one account, it'll burn so bright and hot you could almost imagine the Flame's trying to burn him too... 

[jajagappa]

5 hours ago, Jose said:

I am asking because if there is a heroquest involved you will have to confront nasty-beautiful Jar-eel. But a ritual, well I think is open to modifications in some way. 

There are no indications of or references to Jar-eel being present at attempts to light the Flame of Sartar.  She snuffed it out, but does not appear to have any further association with it.  That is in contrast to attempts to restart the Tournament of Luck and Death in the Holy Country, where she appears right at the start and puts an end to those attempts; or during Kallyr's Lightbringer Quest where she responds to the Summons of Evil.

That does not preclude lighting the Flame from being a heroquest - there's no distinct boundary/difference between an in-world heroquest and a ritual.  There are implications that you must be an heir of Sartar - at least some of Sartar's blood is needed.  Argrath summons the Thunderstorm and draws a thunderbolt down from the heavens to light it.  Possibly other means to create Fire could be used to relight it.  Maybe Argrath's approach is unique and different, and that's why it succeeds.  

[David Scott]

It could just be that the flame is a manifestation of Sartar's wyter. With the current Prince becoming its priest. Give it a few simple abilities - Recognise Heir and Flame in a bowl, and only Sartar direct descendants can have a loyalty to it and you are off. Kallyr tries to light it (spends a POW), and it's not too happy with her. Argrath does the same (gives it more POW, perhaps from what he's stored on the Heroplane) and poof, big flame, happy wyter.