Pole Star cult

[Eagle Talon]

Does anyone knows if there is an existing cult write up for Pole Star? There are a couple of myths about him but not a ton of info. 

Being the general of heaven and commanding the Star Captains should make him an important deity. 

And not to mention it must be a popular warrior cult in solar and lunar armies. 

[Leingod]

2 hours ago, Eagle Talon said:

Does anyone knows if there is an existing cult write up for Pole Star?

The Orlanthi know him as Rigsdal, and in that guise he's had a write-up as a sub-cult of Elmal and has been stated as also being a sub-cult for Orlanth (being a Thunder Brother). You can probably also find him in stuff like the Book of Heortling Mythology under that name. Of course, that's from HeroQuest, so there's a chance it's not really compatible with how he'll be portrayed in any future RuneQuest materials.

[metcalph]

Pole Star is worshipped under three different names (and in three different rulesets).

Pole Star is a Spirit of Prax, which means he is worshipped in a Spirit Cult like Oakfed..  He is given a Rune Spell in Tales of the Reaching Moon #14 of Captain Souls which acts as a Mindlink spell.

Rigsdal is a Nightwatch God of the Storm Tribe.  He can be worshipped as a subcult of Orlanth, Humakt or Elmal or in (rarely) his own right.   In RQG, this mainly means he gives a runespell to those gods as an associate.  

Polaris is the God of Dara Happa.  According to Pavis: Gateway to Adventure, he commands the armies of the Sky and has the runes of Fire and Stasis.  He is the God of Officers in the Lunar Empire (alongside Yanafal).  

[SDLeary]

29 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Rigsdal is a Nightwatch God of the Storm Tribe.  He can be worshipped as a subcult of Orlanth, Humakt or Elmal or in (rarely) his own right.   In RQG, this mainly means he gives a runespell to those gods as an associate.  

Polaris is the God of Dara Happa.  According to Pavis: Gateway to Adventure, he commands the armies of the Sky and has the runes of Fire and Stasis.  He is the God of Officers in the Lunar Empire (alongside Yanafal).  

So, if worshipped on his own, within the Strom Tribe, do we know what his runes would be? Well of Daliath says Truth (from Sartar), but that is as a subcult of Elmal; and prior to that an eight armed star (alone??), sometimes combined with Death (as a subcult of Humakt).

SDLeary 

[David Scott]

Each cult has its own reference page to publications (not quite finished but good enough at the moment)

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/prosopaedia/deities/r/rigsdal/

Pole Star is a spirit cult with the runes of Sky and Stasis, he gives one rune spell: Captain souls, one way telepathy (including magic) to a stackable number of volunteers (from the upcoming Gods of Glorantha).

Polaris is a full cult and a war god of Dara Happa & the Lunar empire. His runes are Harmony, Light and Stasis. It's a six page write up in the upcoming Gods of Glorantha.

He's not worshipped independently by the Orlanthi as he's a Fire/Sky god.

Edited September 23, 2020 by David Scott

[Jeff]

Polaris is an important cult in lowland Peloria and Pent. His runes are Light, Stasis, and Harmony. He is sometimes worshiped as a spirit in Prax and among the Orlanthi. 

Despite the efforts of Kallyr's poets to concoct stories to the contrary, he's never managed to be incorporated as an associated cult of Orlanth. Orlanth usually dealt with Polaris as an enemy, and lacks even the tales of cooperation he has with Yelmalio.

[Eagle Talon]

5 hours ago, David Scott said:

Each cult has its own reference page to publications (not quite finished but good enough at the moment)

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/prosopaedia/deities/r/rigsdal/

Pole Star is a spirit cult with the runes of Sky and Stasis, he gives one rune spell: Captain souls, one way telepathy (including magic) to a stackable number of volunteers (from the upcoming Gods of Glorantha).

Polaris is a full cult and a war god of Dara Happa & the Lunar empire. His runes are Harmony, Light and Stasis. It's a six page write up in the upcoming Gods of Glorantha.

He's not worshipped independently by the Orlanthi as he's a Fire/Sky god.

Thanks. I am particularly interested the Dara Happan version so I’m looking forward to see the write up in GoG. 

I’m curious about the cult’s relation to the one of Yanafal. Perhaps a friendly rivalry or a heated competition in the lunar ranks? 

[SDLeary]

18 hours ago, David Scott said:

Each cult has its own reference page to publications (not quite finished but good enough at the moment)

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/prosopaedia/deities/r/rigsdal/

Pole Star is a spirit cult with the runes of Sky and Stasis, he gives one rune spell: Captain souls, one way telepathy (including magic) to a stackable number of volunteers (from the upcoming Gods of Glorantha).

Polaris is a full cult and a war god of Dara Happa & the Lunar empire. His runes are Harmony, Light and Stasis. It's a six page write up in the upcoming Gods of Glorantha.

He's not worshipped independently by the Orlanthi as he's a Fire/Sky god.

Those two new rows help a lot!! Thanks!

SDLeary

Edited September 24, 2020 by SDLeary

[Minlister]

@Jeff

Quote

Polaris is an important cult in lowland Peloria and Pent. His runes are Light, Stasis, and Harmony. 

Isn't the Stasis, and even Light runes a bit strange for Rigsdal, a member of the Storm Tribe ? Or are Polaris/Pole Star and Rigsdal considered two different gods in the forthcoming GoG? No problem with that, just curiosity. Thanks

[Jeff]

20 minutes ago, Minlister said:

@Jeff

Isn't the Stasis, and even Light runes a bit strange for Rigsdal, a member of the Storm Tribe ? Or are Polaris/Pole Star and Rigsdal considered two different gods in the forthcoming GoG? No problem with that, just curiosity. Thanks

Rigsdal is not a member of the Storm Tribe. 

[Richard S.]

3 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Rigsdal is not a member of the Storm Tribe. 

Isn't he the source of Kallyr's star brow though? Or at least the star gives her some connection to the pole star.

[Jeff]

1 minute ago, Richard S. said:

Isn't he the source of Kallyr's star brow though? Or at least the star gives her some connection to the pole star.

Yes. Kallyr's great power comes from the Pole Star. Which is interesting, isn't it. That could have been a terrible weakness for her when she tried to perform the LBQ, don't you think? 

[Tindalos]

Of course, the Pole Star's followers/sons have been important to the Storm Tribe. Whitewall being guarded by one who helped found the ancient Garanvuli, and of course the Orlanthi worship of Yelmalio the Lightfore, the most famous of Pole Star's sons.

[Minlister]

Yelmalio is Pole Star's son? Gods, I knew I was no grognard, but I realize now I am a Marie-Louise...

@Jeff

Quote

Rigsdal is not a member of the Storm Tribe. 

So when he swore allegiance to Orlanth (TBoHM, p. 76), he did not joined Orlanth's tribe? Same source p. 159 says "He was one of many warriors who joined the Storm Tribe, happy to have his actions prove his value rather than his blood or parentage".

That is interesting to me in relation to the discussion in another thread about how you join another tribe as it could offer a mythic paradigm. So you swore allegiance to the king, join his tribe, but nonetheless you don't belong to this new tribe, being still defined as a member of your original tribe? Fire Tribe for Rigsdal

Edited September 25, 2020 by Minlister

[David Scott]

13 minutes ago, Tindalos said:

Of course, the Pole Star's followers/sons have been important to the Storm Tribe. Whitewall being guarded by one who helped found the ancient Garanvuli, and of course the Orlanthi worship of Yelmalio the Lightfore, the most famous of Pole Star's sons.

What are the references for these?

I think you are confusing Orlanthi Star tribes with Star Captains. Yelmalio: Lightfore the Cold Son is part of the Solar pantheon, Yelmalio's father is Yelm, Yelmalio isn't a Star Captain.

[jajagappa]

10 minutes ago, David Scott said:

What are the references for these?

I think it's the old WF #10 article on the Gods of Light p.22: "Some of Pole Star's children were less stable or more adventursome than the other Star Captains, and they took upon themselves to wander throughout the world, both before and during the Darkness. Many of these demi-gods were slain, but one in particular, Lightfore, set a clear Heroquest path which later gods also followed."

It's actually repeated pretty much verbatim in the Glorantha Sourcebook p.98.

Better to go with the text from the Dayzatar section (GS p.97, also WF10): "Dayzatar was forced to leave his perch at least one time during his isolation. This was to rescue Lightfore, a favorite worshipper"

I believe originally the association of Lightfore = Yelmalio was not explicit, so Lightfore represented the First Planet and leading Star Captain (hence "child" of Pole Star).  The subsequent integration of Lightfore with Yelmalio means that Lightfore is a part of Yelm (that part that still connects to the Sky Dome and the Light beyond).

Edited September 25, 2020 by jajagappa

[Tindalos]

51 minutes ago, David Scott said:

What are the references for these?

I think you are confusing Orlanthi Star tribes with Star Captains. Yelmalio: Lightfore the Cold Son is part of the Solar pantheon, Yelmalio's father is Yelm, Yelmalio isn't a Star Captain.

As Jajagappa noted, Glorantha Sourcebook page 98.

As for confusing Star Tribes with Star Captains, the Garanvuli were a Star Tribe named after Garan, a Star God who came down after the death of Vingkot and has protected Whitewall since the Darkness (GtG 259, 710), while the other Star Tribes don't have their founders described in the guide, the History of the Heortling Peoples does say that Sedenor was a Star Hero (page 8), Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes describes all the founders of the Star Tribes as Star Husbands and they descended from the heavens to provide them with flickering light (page 46).

I suppose it is possible that we have two completely unrelated groups of heroic stellar demigods who came down to lead people through the darkness with their light, but it would be at odds with the themes given recently.

[Jeff]

26 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

I think it's the old WF #10 article on the Gods of Light p.22: "Some of Pole Star's children were less stable or more adventursome than the other Star Captains, and they took upon themselves to wander throughout the world, both before and during the Darkness. Many of these demi-gods were slain, but one in particular, Lightfore, set a clear Heroquest path which later gods also followed."

It's actually repeated pretty much verbatim in the Glorantha Sourcebook p.98.

Better to go with the text from the Dayzatar section (GS p.97, also WF10): "Dayzatar was forced to leave his perch at least one time during his isolation. This was to rescue Lightfore, a favorite worshipper"

I believe originally the association of Lightfore = Yelmalio was not explicit, so Lightfore represented the First Planet and leading Star Captain (hence "child" of Pole Star).  The subsequent integration of Lightfore with Yelmalio means that Lightfore is a part of Yelm (that part that still connects to the Sky Dome and the Light beyond).

During the Darkness, there were stars that plunged down to protect the lesser beings of the world. Many greater gods, like Orlanth and Ernalda, had already disappeared from the dying world. And so the last lights of the world were all that left. This is pretty universal myth among humans and elves.

Dayzatar is worshiped by gods. That's how awesome he is. 

40 minutes ago, Minlister said:

Yelmalio is Pole Star's son? Gods, I knew I was no grognard, but I realize now I am a Marie-Louise...

@Jeff

So when he swore allegiance to Orlanth (TBoHM, p. 76), he did not joined Orlanth's tribe? Same source p. 159 says "He was one of many warriors who joined the Storm Tribe, happy to have his actions prove his value rather than his blood or parentage".

That is interesting to me in relation to the discussion in another thread about how you join another tribe as it could offer a mythic paradigm. So you swore allegiance to the king, join his tribe, but nonetheless you don't belong to this new tribe, being still defined as a member of your original tribe? Fire Tribe for Rigsdal

There are certainly stories that Polestar swore loyalty to Orlanth. But I think that is merely a projection by Orlanth's mortal worshipers. Polestar is not associated with the Orlanth cult. When he has a wider cult, it tends to be associated with other Celestial deities.

[Joerg]

What about the fact that the only major victory Orlanth had over Chaos in a direct confrontation was the liberation of the sky dome from the Chaos invasion? Wouldn't that have been a good situation for Pole Star to follow Orlanth's lead?

[Sir_Godspeed]

I was going to mention that this seems like an editorial clean-up/retcon/Gregging to make things more ordered, or maybe in-line with what Greg or others wanted later or something, but I didn't bring it up since, well... discussing sky deities with multiple identities in different pantheons tends to spiral into madness on this site.

[Leingod]

3 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I was going to mention that this seems like an editorial clean-up/retcon/Gregging to make things more ordered, or maybe in-line with what Greg or others wanted later or something, but I didn't bring it up since, well... discussing sky deities with multiple identities in different pantheons tends to spiral into madness on this site.

Sometimes it seems like a recipe for spiraling into madness in Glorantha, too.

[Jeff]

It is actually pretty easy. Just base things on the building blocks of Glorantha Sourcebook, King of Sartar, RuneQuest, the Guide, etc. It only gets tough when you try to put the HW-era material in.

[Tindalos]

10 minutes ago, Jeff said:

It is actually pretty easy. Just base things on the building blocks of Glorantha Sourcebook, King of Sartar, RuneQuest, the Guide, etc. It only gets tough when you try to put the HW-era material in.

So we're still fine with Rigsdal as a thane of Orlanth (GtG 649), good to know.

[Jeff]

3 minutes ago, Tindalos said:

So we're still fine with Rigsdal as a thane of Orlanth (GtG 649), good to know.

Sometimes called that, but it doesn't mean much.

[Minlister]

Always thought it was one of Glorantha's best paradox that the Fire pantheon is the most obscure of all.