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Hospitality in a Sartar city/village/hamlet


Bill the barbarian

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So, we know that crossing a Tula’s border will have the interlopers confronted by fyrd members patrolling sooner or later and if all is well the sojourners will be taken back to someone in authority and the hospitality “challenge” begins. All things being equal, a good result will get some form of “hospitality” even if only the right to continue travelling.

What happens at gates to a hill fort, be it small or large. When one comes to a city how do the guards greet you? When one comes to the “so-called” rural inns, okay bronze age B&B scams.. what is the policy. How do steads differ greatly from Clan Centres of the chieftains? Urban areas would have to have different customs from the wilds, no matter the size of the urban area, roads have different rules than forests.

Bottom line, what are the codes and laws concerning strangers and travellers in urban Sartar. For bonus points, how would this differ under the lunars and after Dragonrise’s liberations?

Cheers

Edited by Bill the barbarian
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I think the only difference between Tulas and Forts would be the presence of a guard at a gate, but the rules would essentially be the same.

Inns being Inns, hospitality would of course be granted ... at a price.

For cities, depends on the chief.

For the codes and laws, I defer to people more knowledgeable than myself.

For the Lunar period / Liberated Sartar dichotomy, I think lunars would accept travelers with 'good reasons' like merchants, farmers or herders headed to a nearby market, ... but would be very annoyed by armed and armored guys not escorting a valuable cargo. They would in my opinion at least request said travelers to go unarmed in town. I feel Sartarite rulers would be more permissive toward Orlanthi people.

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I like the implication that the existence of inns might undermine traditional hospitality - if you just walk up to someone random's house, they're likely to just direct you there instead.

On the upside, at an inn, you have minimal guest-duties once you have paid, and a much-reduced risk of getting pulled into something weird that way.

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in blood of orlanth (a ewf time campaign) there is a part dedicated to diplomacy between clans.

one focus is how the pc greet the local (depending how they know the custom they gain bonus / malus for the rest)

Here is the interesting part (based on the heroquest the pc must do)

Quote

The mists clear and you find yourselves standing on a grassy plain, under a bright sun. The colours are more vibrant than you have ever seen before, the air fresher, the sky bigger. The world is young. Ahead of you, you see a kingly stead on a hill. There is a longhouse of golden wood roofed with greed lead, surrounded by many outhouses and workshops. As you approach the stead, a man rides out to greet you. He wears armour of golden scale and he carries a long spear in his hand. He raises his spear and flames run along the tip. He reaches you and his eyes flash brighter than the sun. His voice is like music.

‘Are you friend or foe?’ The characters have been challenged by Elmal, the guardian of Orlanth’s stead and God of the Sun. If the Players remember the Orlanthi Hospitality Rite they can answer Elmal’s questions easily. The questions are:

Questioner: Are you friend or foe? Answer: Friend.

Questioner: I am Elmal, son of Yelm, sworn companion of Orlanth. This is his stead. What is your name? Answer: names

Questioner: You can have my hospitality. I offer you water. Answer: I will not steal from you, fight you or say bad things about you.

Questioner: Are you our friend? Answer: Yes, and here is why.

Questioner: Then you can have a blanket. Are you a kinsman? Answer: Yes, and here is why.

Questioner: Then you can have meat. Are you a great person? Answer: Yes, and here is what I have done.

Questioner: Then you can have salt. Are you willing to work for us? Answer: Yes, and here are my qualifications.

my concern is about copyright, if you thing there is any issue delete it or request me to do it

It is about clan and villages but if you want to enter in a inn in a more "wild" location (like apple lane or more wild) I think you open the door say hello, show your tattoos , a good smile, and it's ok

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5 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

What happens at gates to a hill fort, be it small or large.

Same as a stead.

5 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

When one comes to a city how do the guards greet you?

Halt, who goes there?

If you then give an appropriate ritual response or challenge and they belong to an appropriate cult then they have to answer you or lose face.

But, by doing so you bind yourself into the hospitality.

5 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

When one comes to the “so-called” rural inns, okay bronze age B&B scams.. what is the policy.

It depends on the Inn.

At Geo's you are guaranteed hospitality.

At other inns it depends on who is the innkeeper and what their rules of hospitality are.

You should get a hot meal and a bed by the fire at least. Maybe you are obliged to give something towards the meal, or simply pay for it.

5 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

How do steads differ greatly from Clan Centres of the chieftains? 

It depends on the stead. Some steadsfolk make a special point to offer hospitality to any passing stranger, as a matter of principle. Some will grudgingly give you some stale bread and let you sleep in the fields. Some will drive you off as beggars or transients.

5 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Urban areas would have to have different customs from the wilds, no matter the size of the urban area, roads have different rules than forests.

Urban centres might have their own rules about hospitality. It would be fun to work your way through that minefield, using the Customs skill.

 

5 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Bottom line, what are the codes and laws concerning strangers and travellers in urban Sartar.

Sartar probably laid some rules down for exactly this kind of thing. In your clans, do it the old way, in the cities do it me new way.

5 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

For bonus points, how would this differ under the lunars and after Dragonrise’s liberations?

Lunars have their own rules for hospitality. They will probably give it to Lunars. Seven Mothers Temples would probably give free food and drink and a bed for travellers in exchange for listening to some nice stories. Think of the Inn of the Sixth Happiness as a great example of this.

 

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4 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

I like the implication that the existence of inns might undermine traditional hospitality - if you just walk up to someone random's house, they're likely to just direct you there instead.

 

Me too.

 

2 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

in blood of orlanth (a ewf time campaign) there is a part dedicated to diplomacy between clans.

 

MRQ?

 

46 minutes ago, soltakss said:

It depends on the Inn.

 

That is does, this is from S KoH... which lacks the hospitably question vis à vis inns but has something that made me wonder...

Quote

 

Inns

Gloranthan maps are famously inaccurate. For example, many maps of Sartar circulated outside its borders show a network of inns dotted at convenient intervals across the territories of the various tribes. Colorful and inviting names such as “Yellow Bear Inn,” “Dancing Apple Inn” and “Wark’s Hotel” suggest that sophisticated, comfortable accommodations await visitors to Sartar. However, the reality is somewhat less encouraging. Strangers are never automatically welcome in any Orlanthi community, no matter what the maps say.

 

Certain families are especially interested in playing host to travelers. They may be avid traders angling for opportunities and contacts, sages or magicians hoping for information about the outside world, or simply curious folks looking to alleviate their boredom. Some visitors to clan lands, after being directed to “the place travelers go,” falsely conclude that they are staying in a backwoods inn.Some of these habitual hosts find this amusing, andeven come up with names for their “inns” when prompted to do so. However, the joke stops being funny when travelers assume too much about theirrights as “patrons” of the inn, and find out too latethat they have offended an entire clan of well-armed people with an elaborate and violent code for dealing with insults.

 

 

46 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Urban centres might have their own rules about hospitality. It would be fun to work your way through that minefield, using the Customs skill.

 

this is so, I am thinking there is a wealth of roleplaying potential here.

 

Edited by Bill the barbarian
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35 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Certain families are especially interested in playing host to travelers. They may be avid traders angling for opportunities and contacts, sages or magicians hoping for information about the outside world, or simply curious folks looking to alleviate their boredom. Some visitors to clan lands, after being directed to “the place travelers go,” falsely conclude that they are staying in a backwoods inn.Some of these habitual hosts find this amusing, andeven come up with names for their “inns” when prompted to do so. However, the joke stops being funny when travelers assume too much about theirrights as “patrons” of the inn, and find out too latethat they have offended an entire clan of well-armed people with an elaborate and violent code for dealing with insults.

I super liked this - it seemed extremely credible, and I was glad to see the game step outside the fantasy tropes -  but it seems that these days, we are back to traditional fantasy inns being run by the Geo cult.

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6 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

...

Quote

...

‘Are you friend or foe?’ The characters have been challenged by Elmal, the guardian of Orlanth’s stead and God of the Sun. If the Players remember the Orlanthi Hospitality Rite they can answer Elmal’s questions easily. The questions are:

Questioner: Are you friend or foe? Answer: Friend.

Questioner: I am Elmal, son of Yelm, sworn companion of Orlanth. This is his stead. What is your name? Answer: names

Questioner: You can have my hospitality. I offer you water. Answer: I will not steal from you, fight you or say bad things about you.

Questioner: Are you our friend? Answer: Yes, and here is why.

Questioner: Then you can have a blanket. Are you a kinsman? Answer: Yes, and here is why.

Questioner: Then you can have meat. Are you a great person? Answer: Yes, and here is what I have done.

Questioner: Then you can have salt. Are you willing to work for us? Answer: Yes, and here are my qualifications.

...

This is the custom Hospitality Greeting rite of the Orlanthi, which is based on the First Hospitality myth (see The Book of Heortling Mythology).

3 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

...

MRQ?

...

Yes.

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12 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

I super liked this - it seemed extremely credible, and I was glad to see the game step outside the fantasy tropes -  but it seems that these days, we are back to traditional fantasy inns being run by the Geo cult.

Geo's Inns are run by the Geo cult, as they are temples to Geo.

Other inns are not.

None of the inns in New Pavis, for example, are Geo's as the Lunars banned them, although I would guess that Geo's might have opened up an inn post-expulsion.

So, there are lots of scope for inns to be run by Issaries traders, Minlister cultists and so on.

Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

www.soltakss.com/index.html

Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here

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30 minutes ago, Rob Darvall said:
On 12/23/2020 at 8:31 AM, soltakss said:

None of the inns in New Pavis, for example, are Geo's

O-25 in P:GTA and P&BR.

Except for that one, thanks. Odd, we never went to Geo's so I had forgotten about it.

Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

www.soltakss.com/index.html

Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here

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On 12/22/2020 at 12:12 PM, Akhôrahil said:

but it seems that these days, we are back to traditional fantasy inns being run by the Geo cult.

What makes you think that?

On 12/22/2020 at 5:23 AM, Bill the barbarian said:

What happens at gates to a hill fort, be it small or large. When one comes to a city how do the guards greet you? When one comes to the “so-called” rural inns, okay bronze age B&B scams.. what is the policy. How do steads differ greatly from Clan Centres of the chieftains? Urban areas would have to have different customs from the wilds, no matter the size of the urban area, roads have different rules than forests.

IMG if you're walking into some other clan's tula, you get indeed greeted sooner or later by some patrol, and then the usual inquiries and hospitality bounds are established. But the PCs would state their business, where they're headed, and so on. In many cases, they would get escorted to wherever they're going... as such, if they show up at a town or village or whatever and they're by themselves, the locals won't quite be sure if you snuck past the patrols to do some mischief, or if their patrols aren't so good.

In a more magically inclined Glorantha, I've been tempted to rule that the hospitality tradition makes you "visible" to the clan's wyter, who can then track (to some degree) your movements through its realm. This prevents having to allocate one NPC escort to the PCs' party every time, although that's usually good because the players often have questions for that NPCs while they hike/ride. So if you said to the patrolmen that you were going to the town, the guards there at the gate would already know of your coming from their wyter. And if you're seen elsewhere, some nearby thane might get a notification from the wyter that you're not totally honest and need a closer look or talking to.

A simpler take would be that one of the thanes on patrol has some communication spell (Wind Words?) to notify the thane at the fort, and then the information spreads from thane to thane as necessary. Again, most people (village guards, patrols, etc.) would be aware of you before you show up, so you're already all good. But that's potentially more in an HQG game. In an RQG game, the economics of magic spells (especially Rune spells) make that less possible. In many cases, HQ's Glorantha is more magical than RQ's, at least IMHO.

Lots of NPCs might not be "in the loop", however. PCs might get some inquisitive looks from people in an isolated hill stead, and these NPCs might tell the kids to get inside, and so on. Based on the locals' traditions, recent history with raids, or current adventure's narrative needs, they may react positively ("come, friends, we've got ale and roasted mutton! what brings you here?"), suspiciously ("can't talk, go see the thane over there"), or negatively (*runs away or hides*).

NPCs in general might react more positively if the PCs are traveling along usual trails and roads. PCs seen and caught in the wilder parts of the land, hiking straight across hills, might be treated with lots of suspicion. Same thing for PCs showing up unannounced, unescorted, and unexpectedly at a hill fort, inn, or whatever else, at least in a Glorantha where the visitors get an escort, a monitoring wyter, or a network of magical communications (as mentioned above). In a Glorantha that has neither of these things, I would imagine that, really, every new NPC would have to re-do the whole hospitality challenge for their own land (stead family leader, inn keeper, fort guard, etc.) because they wouldn't have any way of knowing if you have already been vouched for.

Edited by lordabdul
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4 hours ago, lordabdul said:

IMG if you're walking into some other clan's tula, you get indeed greeted sooner or later by some patrol, and then the usual inquiries and hospitality bounds are established. But the PCs would state their business, where they're headed, and so on. In many cases, they would get escorted to wherever they're going... 

 

I left that a little vague—and that is one possibility—as we have sources for this. What I was truly curious about is where adventure lies in the more urban centres (of course adventure and hospitality or lack thereof are hand in glove, but...). 

 

4 hours ago, lordabdul said:

as such, if they show up at a town or village or whatever and they're by themselves, the locals won't quite be sure if you snuck past the patrols to do some mischief, or if their patrols aren't so good.

 

As I said, a vey good possibility,. thanks for pointing out why!

 

4 hours ago, lordabdul said:

In a more magically inclined Glorantha, I've been tempted to rule that the hospitality tradition makes you "visible" to the clan's wyter,

I like this a lot, not breaking of canon (some good bending at best)! Nice expanding to cover earlier point, one reason to be able to be hospitable, security that does not require additional manpower!

So I read that you are not differentiating the towns and hill forts from the more urban areas that surround them. In fact the first line of defence of a hill fort, town or even a Clan or Tribal Seat would be the lowly fyrdperson doing his or her seasonal duty on patrol. Interesting and well worth a mention. Hell, if this is not where your mind is drifing take a bow anyway, It allowed my mind to wander this path.

Now, I would imagine this not to be the case of a city...confederacy capitol or not.

4 hours ago, lordabdul said:

Lots of NPCs might not be "in the loop", however. PCs might get some inquisitive looks from people in an isolated hill stead, and these NPCs might tell the kids to get inside, and so on. Based on the locals' traditions, recent history with raids, or current adventure's narrative needs, they may react positively ("come, friends, we've got ale and roasted mutton! what brings you here?"), suspiciously ("can't talk, go see the thane over there"), or negatively (*runs away or hides*).

 

Yep. good colour!

 

4 hours ago, lordabdul said:

NPCs in general might react more positively if the PCs are traveling along usual trails and roads. PCs seen and caught in the wilder parts of the land, hiking straight across hills, might be treated with lots of suspicion. Same thing for PCs showing up unannounced, unescorted, and unexpectedly at a hill fort, inn, or whatever else, at least in a Glorantha where the visitors get an escort, a monitoring wyter, or a network of magical communications (as mentioned above). In a Glorantha that has neither of these things, I would imagine that, really, every new NPC would have to re-do the whole hospitality challenge for their own land (stead family leader, inn keeper, fort guard, etc.) because they wouldn't have any way of knowing if you have already been vouched for.

Again true, Interesting the answer is 100% off-topic of the the question, but still is a great read and a much

needed expansion of the topic. 

Thanks

 

4 hours ago, lordabdul said:

NPCs in general might react more positively if the PCs are traveling along usual trails and roads. PCs seen and caught in the wilder parts of the land, hiking straight across hills, might be treated with lots of suspicion. Same thing for PCs showing up unannounced, unescorted, and unexpectedly at a hill fort, inn, or whatever else, at least in a Glorantha where the visitors get an escort, a monitoring wyter, or a network of magical communications (as mentioned above). In a Glorantha that has neither of these things, I would imagine that, really, every new NPC would have to re-do the whole hospitality challenge for their own land (stead family leader, inn keeper, fort guard, etc.) because they wouldn't have any way of knowing if you have already been vouched for.

Now this is more on point. looking at the surrounding territory rather than the individual stead and once again gives colour, and flavour and good game points. Cool.

Yeah, cheers lordabdul, thanks for the comments.

Edited by Bill the barbarian
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24 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Where have we seen anything but bog-standard Fantasy inns in RQG so far (whether run by the Geo cult or not)?

In my games:)

Main reason for putting this together. I see potential here to make the scenarios POP! And avoid bog-standard!

Oh and to do that I suggest a re-reading of lordabdul’s wonderful response it is quite good for leaving the mundane behind in a real world (if I can say that about Sartar) way.

Edited by Bill the barbarian

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2 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Where have we seen anything but bog-standard Fantasy inns in RQG so far (whether run by the Geo cult or not)?

Well I'm asking because AFAICT in RQG's published books we have:

  1. The Tin Inn in Apple Lane, which features a duck trickster and his Beastmen friends.
  2. The Highwall Inn, which is... well, its own little adventure of its own.
  3. White Grap Inn and Ram's Head in Clearwine, which have some additional gameplay opportunities based on their patron NPCs.
  4. A couple of other inns (including two Geo's) which are just meant to justify PCs having a place to rest in a broader adventure (and therefore aren't supposed to feature in much more than one scene, if at all).

So I'm not sure what you're going on about here, most of these inns give you at least a couple of hooks to make them feel unique. But I could definitely see a Jonstown Compendium book of inns, with more details fleshed out (a couple pages per inn at least), if you don't have time to prep one for your game or don't want to improvise.

3 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

So I read that you are not differentiating the towns and hill forts from the more urban areas that surround them. In fact the first line of defence of a hill fort, town or even a Clan or Tribal Seat would be the lowly fyrdperson doing his or her seasonal duty on patrol.

Yep that's what I meant (assuming you meant "from the more rural areas that surround them"). Most of the time during the day, the inhabitants of the hill fort/town/etc. will be out and about herding cattle and sheep, tending to fields, moving stuff back and forth, cutting trees, and so on. The patrol routes would probably be accordingly setup to keep an eye on all these people, or stay within a scream's hearing distance from them. So I imagine that if a group of 5 armed PCs manage to show up at a clan centre without being spotted and greeted by anybody, someone messed up :D ("your security is very lax, we could have stolen a dozen cows on our way here... are you hiring weapon-thanes? we can start right away")

In many cases, the PCs would first encounter one of the cottars doing their usual activities, instead of a patrol. I don't imagine these random nobodies would do the hospitality stuff, they're busy and don't have authority in the clan. But these cottars will then notify the patrol next time they see them ("I saw these people from the Ernaldoring clan, I think, going that way... they had a Death Sword with them, so I didn't stop to chat, you know... they asked about Noraya Barefoot so I pointed the way to the Earth temple, they can't be much more than 20min ahead of you, and they were on foot"). The PCs would later hear these thanes hailing them as they catch up with them to do all the official greeting stuff.

If the PCs are traveling with a known Issaries merchant who has a regular trade route going that way, it's possible nobody would care, and only the people at the tribal/clan centre would be concerned about making sure they intercept the convoy, for toll purposes mainly (I assume tolls are taken when people pass through forts and villages, or possibly some landmarks like a notable bridge?). I'm not sure they would do any formal hospitality greeting for a regular like this (the merchant may have an extended welcome granted seasons or years ago). But if that merchant didn't use to have this much protection, it may be notable enough that the clan's thanes will come and inquire about what's going on, if only to learn about possible new developments in the region ("yeah I had to hire these ugly mugs because the southern part of your lands have been pretty dangerous lately... I told your chieftain about his bandit problem but he doesn't seem to have done anything, I wonder what's up with that").

Edited by lordabdul
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4 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

Well I'm asking because AFAICT in RQG's published books we have:

  1. The Tin Inn in Apple Lane, which features a duck trickster and his Beastmen friends.
  2. The Highwall Inn, which is... well, its own little adventure of its own.
  3. White Grap Inn and Ram's Head in Clearwine, which have some additional gameplay opportunities based on their patron NPCs.
  4. A couple of other inns (including two Geo's) which are just meant to justify PCs having a place to rest in a broader adventure (and therefore aren't supposed to feature in much more than one scene, if at all).

So I'm not sure what you're going on about here, most of these inns give you at least a couple of hooks to make them feel unique. But I could definitely see a Jonstown Compendium book of inns, with more details fleshed out (a couple pages per inn at least), if you don't have time to prep one for your game or don't want to improvise.

I believe the objection @Akhôrahil is making here is that these inns are the sort of motel-and-dive-bar inns in fantasy fiction tend to be, and that this feels inappropriate for a Gloranthan and specifically Sartar context compared to provision of hospitality by clans at individual steads or within the tula precincts. And that given that said provision of hospitality hasn't appeared in official RQG products yet, then the sense they have is that things have shifted back towards a Motel G in every corner. 

I don't really share that sense, in large part because thus far inns also primarily exist from legacy (Tin Inn), or in an appropriate setting (urban areas) and often with a plot conceit involved (Highwall Inn). 

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Happy Sacred Time to you and your Kinship Group, readers.

2 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

I also dislike Apple Lane a lot, for similar reasons - it only exists to cater to adventurers (inn, smithy, magic item shop, brothel... it’s almost parody). It’s worse than bloody Hommlet in that regard!

Totally agreed.  At least the Rainbow Mound holds up as a decent introductory adventure, but Apple Lane is not a well thought out settlement.

On 12/23/2020 at 12:23 AM, Bill the barbarian said:

How do steads differ greatly from Clan Centres of the chieftains? 

It is likely that a Chief's hall is often the primary source of clan hospitality if one cares to consider the matter.  The advantages:

(1) The Chief gets to greet all newcomers and assess them.

(2) The Chief gets credit for all hospitality offered.

(3) The weaponthanes are likely present in the Chief's Hall drinking his mead on clan retainer, and so it is easier to guard the newcomers, plus the newcomers are honor-bound to defend the threshold.

(4) Newcomers are a good source of intelligence and just plain news and gossip, and a Chief will see the value in this.

The disadvantages:

(1) The chief is responsible for the newcomers and their actions as their host.

(2) Hospitality can be expensive

(3) Getting easy access to the chief might be just what an assassin wants, but a good Humakti weaponthane may well detect their intentions well in advance.  On the other hand, a Chief shouldn't be seen to shirk such a threat.

Now this is not to suggest that some people won't make a good living by providing accommodation to travelers in the form of an inn or tavern. Obviously any such establishment will need to be on a decent thoroughfare to be remotely profitable.  I would see such places as primarily making their money from a few different sources, such as (a) locals coming in for a drink (b) Issaries mule caravans using the inns as a caravanserai (c) farmers and artisans going to and from markets and cities (d) all the other human flotsam that the road drags in.

As to the issue of purchased hospitality, well, it is likely a lot more Issaries than Orlanth in its orientation.  You get the hospitality that you pay for, and have only a general obligation to behave in a civil fashion.  It is likely that many such establishments will run themselves a bit like Geo's, but the resemblance will be superficial, as Geo's is actually a cult, and most Inns will likely be at most, neutral ground.  Importantly, Inns will serve as a base of operations for visiting merchants much of the time.  Will they visit the local Issaries outfit?  Yes, but most of their customers are likely to be non-Issaries, depending on what they are selling, and selling your wares to a drunk customer is generally going to net you a better price.

In terms of begging hospitality from outlying farmsteads, this option is often not considered by players, and the number of times they would rather sit shivering in the rain rather than try to figure out whose house that is, is both paranoid and amusing imo.  The fact is, most Orlanthi will offer a traveler a measure of hospitality, even if it is only a roof over their heads for a night.  Even if your clans are feuding, sometimes you can expect hospitality, as that sort of gesture can be an overture towards ending the feud, or (of course) a prelude to an ambush, depending on how players handle themselves.  Most people will be happy to take in a stranger who reveals themselves and their intentions, and all the more-so if they are known to be honorable and have a good reputation.

As to cities, well, most people go to cities with business in mind and will generally either be going to stay as someone's guest, or at an inn, or at a temple.  Tribal Chiefs may well retain a residence in a city, but clan chiefs probably won't unless there is a very good (lucrative or political) reason to do so.  City Guards are likely to be less attentive than clan guards, as they have different duties, and issues of Orlanthi hospitality will not be foremost in their brief.  They will get a large number of visitors every day, who they will need to assess for tax purposes, warn over weapons, assess as to their general threat to the population.  City guards will not do an official Orlanthi challenge to every visitor as they will be employees of the city's ruling council, who are likely to be members of multiple clans, tribes and guilds.  Some cities are the seat of a tribal king, such as Clearwine, and they will operate in a more traditional fashion, but Jonstown, that lies between multiple tribes and clans will not, as it is certainly ruled by a City Ring.  It may well be that city dwellers when first confronted with a clan patrol going through a ritual Orlanthi hospitality challenge might find it a bit humorously parochial, but will likely bite their tongues and not say "welcome to banjo country y'all" for fear of being stabbed.  Everyone from Orlanthi culture will know the proper form even if they have never used it in their entire life.

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2 hours ago, Eff said:

I believe the objection @Akhôrahil is making here is that these inns are the sort of motel-and-dive-bar inns in fantasy fiction tend to be, and that this feels inappropriate for a Gloranthan and specifically Sartar context compared to provision of hospitality by clans at individual steads or within the tula precincts. And that given that said provision of hospitality hasn't appeared in official RQG products yet, then the sense they have is that things have shifted back towards a Motel G in every corner. 

This is exactly correct. Compare the section @Bill the barbarian quoted earlier, which is a lot more the way I like it than these hotels-with-bar-and-restaurant that we keep getting in generic fantasy. I don’t come to Glorantha for generic fantasy tropes.

Edited by Akhôrahil
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On 12/24/2020 at 5:22 PM, Darius West said:

As to the issue of purchased hospitality, well, it is likely a lot more Issaries than Orlanth in its orientation.  You get the hospitality that you pay for, and have only a general obligation to behave in a civil fashion.  It is likely that many such establishments will run themselves a bit like Geo's, but the resemblance will be superficial, as Geo's is actually a cult, and most Inns will likely be at most, neutral ground.  Importantly, Inns will serve as a base of operations for visiting merchants much of the time.  Will they visit the local Issaries outfit?  Yes, but most of their customers are likely to be non-Issaries, depending on what they are selling, and selling your wares to a drunk customer is generally going to net you a better price.

 

A walk through Pavis does offer a lot of pubs, and inns that are not totally bog-standard, well it was the 80s so they could use a bit of work, but I can still smell the difference twixt  Riverfish Inn and the Silk ’n Plume in my imagination. I can still hear the crash and crunch of bones of a body being slammed into the tables in either Rowdy Djo Lo's or Loud Lilina’s. Blissfully the smells remains forgotten. 

 

On 12/24/2020 at 5:22 PM, Darius West said:

In terms of begging hospitality from outlying farmsteads, this option is often not considered by players, and the number of times they would rather sit shivering in the rain rather than try to figure out whose house that is, is both paranoid and amusing imo

As a young man in the 70s I hitchhiked across Canada a few times. I will never forget the welcome I had after walking down a cheery flower shrouded lane next to the Island Hiway on Vancouver Island to arrive at an equally picturesque farm house, ivys, flowers and trees everywhere. The barn had looked like something out of Tolkien as seen from the overly modern road I stood on, there was a campgrounds down the road that I could stay at so....I went down the lane A couple of horses frolicking in front and a cat that demanded my attention before I was permitted to knock on the door greeted me. The incredible adorable and sweet young couple (amazing what a few decades will do to memories, I thought they were old at the time) who answered the door answered all my questions and offered me a tour. Well soon I was sitting down to an impromptu feast and pie (wow it was great). We talked about travel , the road, politics and then I said time to go to the campgrounds when they asked if I minded horses cause I could bed down with the horses in that great barn I had spied from the road and so I did. They lit a later for me and showed me how to turn it off I took my battered book out of my pack and read a chapter about Jack (Jack of Shadow) before turning off the lantern and had a great sleep, dreaming of hobbits doubtless. I do indeed recommend this routine to other travellers Farners get lonely. That also became my winters rest for a few years every winter... Vancouver Island not the farm!

On 12/24/2020 at 5:22 PM, Darius West said:

As to cities, well, most people go to cities with business in mind and will generally either be going to stay as someone's guest, or at an inn, or at a temple.  Tribal Chiefs may well retain a residence in a city, but clan chiefs probably won't unless there is a very good (lucrative or political) reason to do so.  City Guards are likely to be less attentive than clan guards, as they have different duties, and issues of Orlanthi hospitality will not be foremost in their brief. 

Thanks for the city view, I imagine proper hospitality can be found in such cities in ones tribal houses.

Edited by Bill the barbarian
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... remember, with a TARDIS, one is never late for breakfast!

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4 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

for the cities view, I imagine proper hospitality can be found in such cities in ones tribal houses.

I thought that was a great touch in The Colymar Campaign in S:KoH - of course you don’t go to some inn filled with strangers and weirdos, you go to your tribe’s city house in Boldhome!

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