POW storing crystals

[Godlearner]

If memory serves, unpowered crystals are solidified blood of dead Gods, while powered crystals are solidified blood of living Gods; which leads to to a question if anyone has faced, have there ever been the case of someone's crystal changing type while in their possession? 

How common are unpowered crystals when compared to people using binding enchantments?

[davecake]

I've never heard of a crystal changing its nature, other than rarely DI being used to remove some taint. 

Unpowered crystals seem more common than binding enchantments, but many people just use them for magic point storage. 

[Godlearner]

4 minutes ago, davecake said:

I've never heard of a crystal changing its nature, other than rarely DI being used to remove some taint. 

Unpowered crystals seem more common than binding enchantments, but many people just use them for magic point storage. 

Hmm, it seems to me it would be easier to create Magic Point matrices and binding enchantments. (I could be wrong)

[French Desperate WindChild]

1 hour ago, Godlearner said:

which leads to to a question if anyone has faced, have there ever been the case of someone's crystal changing type while in their possession? 

that means the god becomes dead and forgotten while the crystal is in characters possession. Don't know any god forgotten during third age.

So I would say no

1 hour ago, Godlearner said:

How common are unpowered crystals when compared to people using binding enchantments?

Not sure but my memory says 9 dead for 1 alive

[Godlearner]

1 minute ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

Not sure but my memory says 9 dead for 1 alive

Yeah, but I meant the ration of crystals to man made items.

[PhilHibbs]

13 minutes ago, Godlearner said:

Hmm, it seems to me it would be easier to create Magic Point matrices and binding enchantments. (I could be wrong)

Easier to create a matrix than to use a crystal that you got as loot?

[Godlearner]

3 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Easier to create a matrix than to use a crystal that you got as loot?

No, but how often do you find one is what I am trying to judge.

[French Desperate WindChild]

  

2 minutes ago, Godlearner said:

Yeah, but I meant the ration of crystals to man made items.

oh sorry did not understand

 

I think it s depend on "the" glorantha and how are managed crystal

For example in mine :

you can find living crystal only in temple / on powerful rune lord or priest / and heroquest (example Belvalni in sun county) no possibility to buy it, the major part are temples possession (not priest or rune lord own)

you can find dead crystal in the same way than living, and, in addition, in holy/notorious place where something happens (but lucky roll 1xPOW + active search, or 1% + passive scan special success) You may find one or two sold by powerful merchants (gringle, for example) but as a very high price. People or Cult can own dead crystals

You can find enchanter who provides matrix but there I manage the pow economy hardly, don't expect to pay and obtain 20pow somewhere,There is the enchanter and the pc as source of pow, noone else.

 

So I don't answer directly your question, as I consider that this kind of artefact must be managed as "gift/loan from the GM to succeed a scenario (if no need of help, no gift = no pain no gain)" or because PC are looking for it (so social interaction with a community like cult or shaman's or sorcerer's,  research with LM initiate to identify where you can find good place, negotiation with issaries priest, or plunder an ennemy temple)

 

 

[David Scott]

2 hours ago, Godlearner said:

If memory serves, unpowered crystals are solidified blood of dead Gods, while powered crystals are solidified blood of living Gods;

Looking at the the free Gamemaster Screen Pack Preview - Appendix 2 Metals and Crystals - No, some just retain some of their potency.

2 hours ago, Godlearner said:

which leads to to a question if anyone has faced, have there ever been the case of someone's crystal changing type while in their possession?

No, there are two types, although for story purposes  it could happen.

2 hours ago, Godlearner said:

How common are unpowered crystals when compared to people using binding enchantments?

Finding a crystal vs paying at least two POW. My players choose crystals. 

1 hour ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

Not sure but my memory says 9 dead for 1 alive

If you mean the ratios, it's: unpowered / powered / combined / flawed it's 70/22/6  (yes this doesn't add up to 100).

50 minutes ago, Godlearner said:

but how often do you find one is what I am trying to judge.

As often as you make them available in your game. My current game has 3 crystals / 6 players. Two as heirlooms, one from an adventure.

Adventurers have a slightly higher than 1 in 5 chance of one from heirlooms.

If you've no idea, the treasure factor chapter in RQ Classic can be helpful. Lowest TF Band is about 1%, at the next band it's about 2%.

[Joerg]

2 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

that means the god becomes dead and forgotten while the crystal is in characters possession. Don't know any god forgotten during third age.

Interesting question - could the Windstop (with Orlanth and Ernalda temporarily dead, or at least as dead as in "she's not dead, she's sleeping) have caused live crystals to have become dead?

 

[HreshtIronBorne]

2 hours ago, Godlearner said:

2 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Easier to create a matrix than to use a crystal that you got as loot?

No, but how often do you find one is what I am trying to judge.

As far as I have seen looking rhrough adventure material and from playing a TON of RQ3, it depends a lot on campaign power level and role play. We ended up swimming in crystals in some cmapaigns that were combat/loot heavy and high power level. When we started lowbie RQ3 characters it would take a long time to get the first few as skills start low, combat is hecka deadly, you have even less equipment/spells. 

 

By the end of our most recent RQG campaign of 11 Lights we had approximately 30ish points in stored MP on each of the ten(?) Or so PCs. In game time we played for about 8 years, I think. We ended up with the priest and the shaman carrying a majority of them because of their spell throughput per round when stuff got hairy. Also, the humakti had 60 or so, he had a lot of personal adventures, duels, and such that led to piling on the MP. 

[Godlearner]

Crystals were common in RQ2 games, in RQ3 games they became very rare as characters found/created binding and magic point matrices. Any crystals found were given to allied spirits for additional magic points. Not sure if that was a rule or something we came up with in our games, but allied spirits could have bound spirits, so crystals were the way to go.

[davecake]

12 hours ago, Godlearner said:

Hmm, it seems to me it would be easier to create Magic Point matrices and binding enchantments. (I could be wrong)

Crystals are easy, you can just pick them up. And then you can use them as a magic point matrix. Using a crystal as a spirit binding enchantment is more complicated. Spirit binding still requires you to bind a spirit, which requires both learning a spell (such as Spirit Binding or Command Cult Spirit), and either summoning the spirit or travelling to the spirit plane or similar, usually involving the help of a shaman or a priest. And the spirit goes away when you die. Using a crystal for magic point storage requires no such effort, and is still pretty useful. 

[soltakss]

16 hours ago, Godlearner said:

which leads to to a question if anyone has faced, have there ever been the case of someone's crystal changing type while in their possession? 

I suppose it could happen, but it fundamentally changes the nature of the crystal.

16 hours ago, Godlearner said:

How common are unpowered crystals when compared to people using binding enchantments?

A lot more common.

In RQ2, every foe party had at least one POW storage Crystal, but we rarely gained any Powered Crystals. We had a rule that any Powered Crystals would be offered to those without one first, to ensure that everyone had a Powered Crystal, once everyone had one we did it so that everyone's allied spirit had a Powered Crystal.

Looking at Plunder, for RQ2, the Special Items chart has POW Storage Crystals as more than 4x as common as Powered Crystals. The Values for RQ3 might change, as it has a lot more in the way of common magic items.

Item	Count
POW Storage Crystal	18
Matrix	18
Potion	29
Powered Crystal	4
Scroll	31
Total	100

 

 

 

[Shiningbrow]

14 hours ago, David Scott said:

unpowered / powered / combined / flawed it's 70/22/6 

Missing a number here?? 4 types, only 3 percentages...

[Shiningbrow]

3 hours ago, davecake said:

Crystals are easy, you can just pick them up. And then you can use them as a magic point matrix. Using a crystal as a spirit binding enchantment is more complicated. Spirit binding still requires you to bind a spirit, which requires both learning a spell (such as Spirit Binding or Command Cult Spirit), and either summoning the spirit or travelling to the spirit plane or similar, usually involving the help of a shaman or a priest. And the spirit goes away when you die. Using a crystal for magic point storage requires no such effort, and is still pretty useful. 

While true, a couple of considerations.

Firstly, while you need to be a Rune level to get the Rune enchantment spell for the MP enchantment, you do get 1D10 MPs per POW... which I'd suggest is easier to get higher MP storage with. And, therefore more likely to have...

However... in saying that, it's basically the same base requirements to get a spirit bound into an item, which is more likely to have a higher POW, which will also regenerate! (assuming you're binding cult spirits).

However (again).... the Spirit Magic spell of Magic Point Enchantment costs just 30L to learn... so too is the Binding Enchantment Spirit Magic spell ... but, you don't get the summoning of the spirit...

Also however... any Initiate can both Summon and Command a Cult Spirit - and thus put them into a dead (unpowered) crystal (POW of spirit will be variable, and generally reliant upon the Initiate's RPs).

However however... (:p) for a few Lunars (or favours), an adventurer could just ask a Priest (or other Rune Level) to do said Summoning and Commanding into the crystal...

However however however..... 😛 😛 😛 )..... One could also somehow convince a Rune Level... and the local community... to all chip in a few POW to make an MP enchantment, having xD10 MPs... (judicious use of a Lie may do wonders here... 😄 😄 😄 )

 

So... oddly enough, in a low powered game (I'll take that pun! 😄 ), Enchantments are going to be much more available to PCs than crystals (unless the GM specifically limits the availability of some base spells).

[Godlearner]

Basically what I am taking away from here is that every Initiate should have at least one magic point battery and in one in ten this is likely to be a non powered crystal.

[davecake]

6 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Firstly, while you need to be a Rune level to get the Rune enchantment spell for the MP enchantment, you do get 1D10 MPs per POW... which I'd suggest is easier to get higher MP storage with. And, therefore more likely to have...

But you don't need to cast any enchantment at all for a POW storage crystal. It exists, you can take it from the person who has it or place where it is, POW cost 0. 

 

6 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

However (again).... the Spirit Magic spell of Magic Point Enchantment costs just 30L to learn...

But POW to cast.. 

 

6 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Also however... any Initiate can both Summon and Command a Cult Spirit

But not Bind... also, Summon and Command are not for every cult, or known by everybody. 

 

6 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

However however however..... 😛 😛 😛 )..... One could also somehow convince a Rune Level... and the local community... to all chip in a few POW to make an MP enchantment, having xD10 MPs...

Sure! But those Rune Levels are going to count it as a very big favour, so you better be prepared to wear that. Basically, it is a big investment of social capital. There is a cost of one sort or another for such things. 

6 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

(judicious use of a Lie may do wonders here... 😄 😄 😄 )

And the cost for that tactic is that you are a Trickster now. That is actually a pretty big cost!

1 hour ago, Godlearner said:

Basically what I am taking away from here is that every Initiate should have at least one magic point battery and in one in ten this is likely to be a non powered crystal.

I think you are way off in both those estimates. Most initiates have more urgent things to do than invest in magic point storage, and non-powered crystals are a common way of acquiring magic point storage. 

[Godlearner]

Quote

I think you are way off in both those estimates. Most initiates have more urgent things to do than invest in magic point storage, and non-powered crystals are a common way of acquiring magic point storage. 

Everything is relative of course, and if you can get a non-powered crystal then its a way to go, but if you can not and extraneous mps are pretty important if you planning to cast spells in any combat situation, you better have some.  I would revise my statement to say it applies to martial and adventuring types of initiates.

[Shiningbrow]

11 hours ago, davecake said:

But you don't need to cast any enchantment at all for a POW storage crystal. It exists, you can take it from the person who has it or place where it is, POW cost 0. 

...But POW to cast.. 

...But not Bind... also, Summon and Command are not for every cult, or known by everybody. 

...Sure! But those Rune Levels are going to count it as a very big favour, so you better be prepared to wear that. Basically, it is a big investment of social capital. There is a cost of one sort or another for such things. 

 

I'm basically pointing out that if someone wants to have MP storage, there are multiple ways to get them... Especially in a game where crystals may not be that common. Very few GMs would just allow you to get a POW storage crystal during downtime, but I would hope most would allow creating an MP or Spirit Binding matrix.

POW is merely another commodity to be used... especially since it's going to be anyway.

11 hours ago, davecake said:

And the cost for that tactic is that you are a Trickster now. That is actually a pretty big cost!

Nah... Spell Trade for it! I'm sure most Tricksters would be oh so happy to have their Lies being spread around... 😄

 

 

13 hours ago, Godlearner said:

Basically what I am taking away from here is that every Initiate should have at least one magic point battery and in one in ten this is likely to be a non powered crystal.

 

11 hours ago, davecake said:

I think you are way off in both those estimates. Most initiates have more urgent things to do than invest in magic point storage, and non-powered crystals are a common way of acquiring magic point storage. 

Hmmm..... I think.... Most initiates aren't too concerned about such things, as it's not really that important in their lives. They're off happily ploughing fields, tending crops, herding animals, occasionally healing people, etc. They don't need the MP storage as much as the PCs do.

So, if you (for whatever reason) decided to raid a community of, say, 50 people, I doubt you'd find more than 5 MP storage crystals amongst the 'loot'.

So, I suppose the question comes down to - if you really need 20MPs in storage, do you wait to find the crystals somewhere? (perhaps purchase??) Or do you make them yourself?

 

The crystals found in 'loot' come from years of hoarding after such raids.

The PCs and their antagonists are not the average people of Glorantha. (and, yes, that does include the Family Background tables and Heirloom tables).

 

Obviously, that's merely my interpretation of Glorantha...

[Mugen]

On 3/11/2021 at 9:27 PM, Godlearner said:

Crystals were common in RQ2 games, in RQ3 games they became very rare as characters found/created binding and magic point matrices. Any crystals found were given to allied spirits for additional magic points. Not sure if that was a rule or something we came up with in our games, but allied spirits could have bound spirits, so crystals were the way to go.

I guess a reason why cristals were rarer in RQ3 is because they were not present in the core rules, and you needed to buy Elder Secrets to find rules for them.

[Bill the barbarian]

17 minutes ago, Mugen said:

I guess a reason why cristals were rarer in RQ3 is because they were not present in the core rules, and you needed to buy Elder Secrets to find rules for them.

Makes sense. Plus as the 11th and final box set from AH it was released well into the AH run. Toward the end of it I believe with 1989 being its date of release. 

Edited March 13, 2021 by Bill the barbarian

[Mugen]

2 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Makes sense. Plus as the 11th and final box set from AH it was released well into the AH run. Toward the end of it I believe with 1989 being its date of release. 

Well, it was only the 3rd "premium" supplement in the french edition, after Gods of Glorantha and Genertela. But, even if I had never heard of those before, it felt odd to me crystals had not been introduced before.