Arcadiagt5 Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 Background: OK, so I'm in 1627 Fire Season and running the 2nd year of Grove of Green Rock with three adventurers mounted on Hippogriffs courtesy of the Pegasus Plateau. To change things up a bit, I swapped the listed 2nd year opponents for a pack of Broo... many of whom have wings (of various sorts), and can fly, along with some on the ground to keep the two adventurers who can't get up into the air busy. Warding: Here's where things get interesting, because they knew the battle would be at night (they were here last year after all), they laid out Warding's as shown in the attached screenshot. The yellow boxes are essentially tripwires - about 50m by 2m designed not so much to keep the attackers out, but to set off an alarm when the attackers arrive (the 1D3 damage is a bonus, but largely irrelevant in the eyes of the adventurers - knowing which direction the attackers would come from was the point). The blue boxes are almost "fighting boxes", semi-prepared positions where the defenders can hold and intercept with a little bit of countermagic & another 1D3 damage. Find Enemy: The other thing they did (in addition to personal protections like Shield, etc), was that at the first sign of trouble (like, oh, the glittery reflecting broo with draconic wings coming into view and lighting up the sky), every other adventurer cast Find Enemy on the airborne Terris. As written this creates a repeater effect where every adventurer can locate the enemies that Terris can see from the various castings. This was really clever, and I allowed it, but I am left wondering if either application of these common rune spells is possibly outside the spirit of what was intended for them. Thoughts, comments, queries? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhôrahil Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 As noted (by me) in the Egregious Munchkinnery thread, you can even create a long, thin, angled or L shaped area out of a single Warding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godlearner Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 5 hours ago, Arcadiagt5 said: Find Enemy: The other thing they did (in addition to personal protections like Shield, etc), was that at the first sign of trouble (like, oh, the glittery reflecting broo with draconic wings coming into view and lighting up the sky), every other adventurer cast Find Enemy on the airborne Terris. As written this creates a repeater effect where every adventurer can locate the enemies that Terris can see from the various castings. Find Enemy is an amazing spell. Throw a couple of points of Extension on it and you will never be surprised. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 I never have any problem with Players making creative use of Rune Magic or Spirit Magic in play. Just don't assume that is how the NPCs operate. And certainly don't assume that is how people normally make use of magic. They are adventurers - let them run with it! 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadiagt5 Posted July 13, 2021 Author Share Posted July 13, 2021 33 minutes ago, lordabdul said: What's a Terris? 21 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said: I assumed it's a character's name Correct! The characters have nameplates shown in the screenshot, and somewhere along the line I've gotten into the habit of bolding adventurer names and italicising NPC/place names in my session write ups. 6 hours ago, Jeff said: I never have any problem with Players making creative use of Rune Magic or Spirit Magic in play. Just don't assume that is how the NPCs operate. And certainly don't assume that is how people normally make use of magic. They are adventurers - let them run with it! OK, that seems fair. I was just worried if there were concerns from a game design/balance perspective that I was missing. Of course if they use certain spells a certain way often enough, then NPCs will learn from them sooner or later. And as their reputations rise, NPCs will start routinely looking up to see if there are hippogriffs up there… 7 hours ago, Akhôrahil said: As noted (by me) in the Egregious Munchkinnery thread, you can even create a long, thin, angled or L shaped area out of a single Warding. How? By my reading of the spell it’s defined by the placement of exactly four wands. That certainly allows the long thin tripwires that they’re using, but I can’t see how you get an L shape with only 4 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godlearner Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, Arcadiagt5 said: Correct! The characters have nameplates shown in the screenshot, and somewhere along the line I've gotten into the habit of bolding adventurer names and italicising NPC/place names in my session write ups. OK, that seems fair. I was just worried if there were concerns from a game design/balance perspective that I was missing. Of course if they use certain spells a certain way often enough, then NPCs will learn from them sooner or later. And as their reputations rise, NPCs will start routinely looking up to see if there are hippogriffs up there… How? By my reading of the spell it’s defined by the placement of exactly four wands. That certainly allows the long thin tripwires that they’re using, but I can’t see how you get an L shape with only 4 points. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadiagt5 Posted July 13, 2021 Author Share Posted July 13, 2021 OK, I stand corrected. Slightly boggled, but corrected.Measuring the area to assess RP cost would be a little more complicated though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordabdul Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Arcadiagt5 said: Correct! The characters have nameplates shown in the screenshot Thanks! I suspected that it might be a character but couldn't read the nameplates in the screenshot... also you said that character was airborne? Using what? The Flight Rune Spell is pretty expensive when you want to lift yourself... Anyway, I don't see anything wrong with the way they used the spells. Sounds all good to me, although the "broadcasting of Find Enemy" sounds pretty generous to me as a reading of how the spell works. My own reading is just that all the PCs will only be aware of anybody wanting to harm Terris specifically. Edited July 13, 2021 by lordabdul Quote Ludovic aka Lordabdul -- read and listen to The God Learners , the Gloranthan podcast, newsletter, & blog ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadiagt5 Posted July 14, 2021 Author Share Posted July 14, 2021 19 minutes ago, lordabdul said: Thanks! I suspected that it might be a character but couldn't read the nameplates in the screenshot... also you said that character was airborne? Using what? The Flight Rune Spell is pretty expensive when you want to lift yourself... Terris is riding Snow, his hippogriff from The Pegasus Plateau adventure. Also in the air, although their companions are fighting on the ground, are Chiselwing and Hawkbeak. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Dangerduck Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 (edited) Does Terris have Snow do barrel rolls after a successful encounter? I do. He's a show off you know! As is my PC - they are a perfect fit. Edited July 14, 2021 by Rodney Dangerduck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadiagt5 Posted July 14, 2021 Author Share Posted July 14, 2021 59 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said: Does Terris have Snow do barrel rolls after a successful encounter? I do. He's a show off you know! As is my PC - they are a perfect fit. Makes crafty notes as a GM… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilHibbs Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 15 hours ago, Godlearner said: I would say that the magic would treat that as a triangle bounded by the three points that are not on the interior, and calculate the area that way. Either that or the spell just fails due to the unusual geometry, but that seems a little churlish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squaredeal Sten Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 18 hours ago, Arcadiagt5 said: OK, I stand corrected. Slightly boggled, but corrected.Measuring the area to assess RP cost would be a little more complicated though. Not much more complicated. You divide it into two triangles and compute the areas of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilHibbs Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 3 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said: Not much more complicated. You divide it into two triangles and compute the areas of those. It's this idea of treating magic like a computer graphics program that bothers me. The Gloranthan universe is not a calculator that can tell you the area of your weird shape. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill the barbarian Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 5 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said: It's this idea of treating magic like a computer graphics program that bothers me. The Gloranthan universe is not a calculator that can tell you the area of your weird shape. Thank you ever so kindly for saying so, I have been carping for my entire time in BRP on that subject! 1 Quote ... remember, with a TARDIS, one is never late for breakfast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadiagt5 Posted July 14, 2021 Author Share Posted July 14, 2021 30 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said: Thank you ever so kindly for saying so, I have been carping for my entire time in BRP on that subject! Agreed. After reading the general reactions of this thread I'm happy with the use of long, thin, rectangular wardings as “ tripwires” but that angled shape just doesn’t feel Gloranthan to me. I'm not going to allow those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Dangerduck Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 Even the creative use as a "tripwire" goes against the spirit of the spell. The first line reads "This ritual spell creates an area of safety for those inside." Not people stationed well behind it. I'd probably allow it, but the bad guys can do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill the barbarian Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 Agreed to both the previous thoughts with this caveat, my complaint was more to do with the feel of PhilHibbs comment in general not this one specifically. In my game I allowed this chicanery, dare I say munchkinnery, even though I disliked the feel of it. And as Rodney said, I have warned my party to expect to reap as they sew... in general. Overall, I have been avoiding this thread (thanks for the spoilers, A5), but I saw a portion of Phil’s comment and liked it! 1 Quote ... remember, with a TARDIS, one is never late for breakfast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squaredeal Sten Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, PhilHibbs said: It's this idea of treating magic like a computer graphics program that bothers me. The Gloranthan universe is not a calculator that can tell you the area of your weird shape. It's not the universe that does it - I'm saying at least some GMs can do a quick estimate of whether what the players do fits "a rough rectangle" of "maximum area up to 100 square meters". A triangle's area is length of side x height x 0.5. if the players can explain the layout they can explain the height. If the GM thinks that shape is not a rough rectangle - whatever rough means - will you take a trapezoid? Then so rule and move on. If the GM accepts it then I can do it in my head. I may have an advantage over you in doing that, and I promise that if it takes you out of your comfort zone then I won't hunt you down and make you do geometry, Edited July 15, 2021 by Squaredeal Sten spelling, my nemesis. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill the barbarian Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Squaredeal Sten said: and I promise that if it takes you out of your comfort zone than I won't hunt you down and make you do geometry, No matter what everyone else is saying about ya behind yer back, I think yer a good egg, and this proves it! A squaredealer ya might say.🙂 Quote ... remember, with a TARDIS, one is never late for breakfast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kloster Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 Replying a bit late, but the angled shape would not give the wanted result because with only one spell, they would not know the direction of the attack. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhôrahil Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 On 7/25/2021 at 5:48 PM, Kloster said: Replying a bit late, but the angled shape would not give the wanted result because with only one spell, they would not know the direction of the attack. It’s not completely clear how it works - does the alarm sound from the point of breaching (in which case you could tell direction with just one warding), or from the warding as a whole (in which case you couldn’t)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Dangerduck Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 12 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said: It’s not completely clear how it works - does the alarm sound from the point of breaching (in which case you could tell direction with just one warding), or from the warding as a whole (in which case you couldn’t)? Good question. Maybe the curses of the wounded broos would help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill the barbarian Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Akhôrahil said: It’s not completely clear how it works - does the alarm sound from the point of breaching (in which case you could tell direction with just one warding), or from the warding as a whole (in which case you couldn’t)? I am guessing the sounds of the wounded coming from the front or the back... Ears do work in stereo for that reason, no? Again just a guess, is this right @Kloster? Quote ... remember, with a TARDIS, one is never late for breakfast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiningbrow Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 7 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said: Good question. Maybe the curses of the wounded broos would help? Not if they resist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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