The Motivations of Morgan le Fay

[SaxBasilisk]

If you follow my posts, you'll know that my PKs have done many, many interesting things. Accusing Madoc of banditry. Reading books. Striving mightily to marry a noble woman with a distinguishing trait of Cruel. Dumping the heads of dead Cameliard knights in Leodegrance's hall, by accident. Fathering Ywain. Now I am confronted with the greatest challenge yet: my bookworm knight has, after the events of 501, started a penpal friendship with Morgan le Fay.

Yes, it's within my rights to cut it off unexpectedly, but I feel as if that's a cop-out. Yes, Morgan is too smart to confess to treason in writing. Yet it does raise some questions about how to characterize one of the most influential and mysterious characters in the Matter of Britain.

I've been reading some of the original epics and Jill Hebert's Morgan le Fay, Shapeshifter, to see what insights I can glean. The two most plausible arguments, to me, are that Morgan secretly hates Arthur and wants to see him fail, or that Morgan illuminates the hypocrisy and inconsistencies of Arthur's rule and program. Right now, I'm considering going with both simultaneously.

How do you think about Morgan's motivations? What are the key incidents from the source material that you use? Is Greg's take buried somewhere?

 

 

[Darius West]

Having done some time as an Arthur scholar, I would point out that Morgan in the earliest tales is generally seen as a benign healer enchantress/lesser deity who helps Arthur and his knights.  Later on she becomes an antagonist, but is not consistently described that way in all the stories.  As a caveat, I am using the term "Pagan" here as it is applied in the game, not as a pejorative, though I will have some criticisms of it.

It is perfectly reasonable to see Morgan as a devoted pagan priestess who sees in Arthur the promise of stability, only to have the intolerant threat of the New Religion come rolling in as his ally.

Another way to see her is as "the Morrigan", i.e. a goddess of war and strife who is determined to watch the world burn, Joker style. 

Perhaps view Morgan is as Arthur's older sister, who feels cheated of her inheritance of the crown which would have been ratified under Pagan law, but not Christian.  Or perhaps she is simply of royal blood and sees Arthur as an obstacle to her succession, to the point where she secretly renders wither Arthur or Guinevere or both infertile with poison, providing a hidden subtext for the Grail Quest.  The Infertility of the King translates to the infertility of the land, thus requiring a miracle cure, (and has nothing to do with the eruption of Mount Tambora in 536).

In terms of how to portray Morgan, her correspondence should always be self-serving making use of her prodigious intrigue ability.  She is innocent of all crimes she is accused of in her correspondence.  She will tell plausible lies, and spread poisonous gossip about her political opponents.  She will sense out the motivations of her audience and play a tune that pleases them, and then turn them into her weapon, until they too are outlawed like herself in the longer term, if they are foolish enough to believe her.

On the other hand, perhaps Morgan is unfairly maligned by the Orkney lobby with Queen Margawse and then Gawain pulling the strings in order to jockey themselves into succession?  Note that it is Gawain who is behind the revelation of Lancelot and Guinevere's adultery, and is the one who ultimately calls for Guinevere's burning.  Why?  Because it is the law, or because it is to his family's advantage, or both?

The fact is, Pagan Britain had some very unpleasant ritual practices.  They weren't peaceful hippies, they were bloodthirsty human sacrificers and head hunters as well, perhaps more akin to the Manson Family.  This is not to suggest that they didn't have healer deities and so forth, but ultimately most deities received human sacrifice.  Christianity certainly also has plenty of flaws, but its determination to end ritual murder was a big selling point, especially for the underclass, who were the ones generally being murdered.  Christianity invariably spread first among the slaves and the poor, while Paganism was the established faith of the elite prior to the process of conversion.  Christianity arrived in the British Isles in the 1st Century AD, which is about as early as is possible.  It is possible in some ways to view the adventures of Arthurian knights as being encounters with local pagan customary practice coming up against a royal legal code in a more continental model, ultimately producing the Common Law.  To say therefore that Arthur's reign is filled with hypocrisy would be pointing out the chip on another's shoulder while ignoring the log on one's own where Paganism is concerned, but of course, if you are mentally wed to a world view where human sacrifice is okay, then you won't hear a word against your expressions of piety and religious conviction, even if they are straight out of a serial killer handbook.

Morgan is an interesting character, so make sure she writes interesting letters that address happenings at court in a way that support her interests without being a 'hard sell'.  Find ways that she can make her interests seem to align with those of the PK.  She is speaking soothing words and edging closer to put a collar and muzzle on her new warhound until she is ready to use him.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Darius West

[Hzark10]

Agree that Morgan has many possible faces and can be an interesting npc to really bring forth into the foreground if that is what your players want.  I've played her as being honest and forthright able to stand side by side with Arthur, as well as being the devious originator of many a plot against Guenever and Arthur.  Definitely, suggest reading various texts to widen your knowledge, but in the end, it is up to you, as gm, to decide how and when to use her.

[Leingod]

12 hours ago, Darius West said:

Note that it is Gawain who is behind the revelation of Lancelot and Guinevere's adultery

Wasn't that Mordred? Gawain doesn't seem to have been all that invested in the matter until Lancelot killed Gareth.

[Darius West]

On 11/25/2021 at 8:49 AM, Leingod said:

Wasn't that Mordred? Gawain doesn't seem to have been all that invested in the matter until Lancelot killed Gareth.

That entirely depends on who you read, but you are not wrong.

[SirUkpyr]

On 11/24/2021 at 3:49 PM, Leingod said:

Wasn't that Mordred? Gawain doesn't seem to have been all that invested in the matter until Lancelot killed Gareth.

I believe it was Agrevaine who did it.

[Voord 99]

The important thing that one needs to bear in mind when characterizing Morgan is that she needs to end up in a happy romantic relationship with Ogier the Dane. 🙂

Edited November 27, 2021 by Voord 99

[Ali the Helering]

4 hours ago, Voord 99 said:

The important thing that one needs to bear in mind when characterizing Morgan is that she needs to end up in a happy romantic relationship with Ogier the Dane. 🙂

Hey, get with the gig man, stop being so gender stereotypical... Carahue for Ogier, Alianora the Swan May for Morgan!

[Mugen]

The first version I ever read of the complete Arthurian tale was The Mists of Avalon by M. Z Bradley, in which Morgan is the narrator.

As a result, I prefer to see her as a pagan priestess, and a major actor in the battle between her Faith and Christian Faith. Her portrayal as an evil sorceress with nefarious projects is just slander from her enemies.

[Oleksandr]

On 11/28/2021 at 12:30 PM, Mugen said:

The first version I ever read of the complete Arthurian tale was The Mists of Avalon by M. Z Bradley, in which Morgan is the narrator.

As a result, I prefer to see her as a pagan priestess, and a major actor in the battle between her Faith and Christian Faith. Her portrayal as an evil sorceress with nefarious projects is just slander from her enemies.

No offence, but... When it was originally written it was new, fresh take on the story. But nowaday it already a cliche. 😉

Besides, in most stories (including KAP) Arthur's court portrayed as not just tolerant, but outright supportive of pagans (Merlin, Ladies of the lake, multiple non christian KotRT). This would make Morgan look like delusional fundamentalist...

 

[Mugen]

1 minute ago, Oleksandr said:

No offence, but... When it was originally written it was new, fresh take on the story. But nowaday it already a cliche. 😉

Besides, in most stories (including KAP) Arthur's court portrayed as not just tolerant, but outright supportive of pagans (Merlin, Ladies of the lake, multiple non christian KotRT). This would make Morgan look like delusional fundamentalist...

 

What, you pretend a book I read when I was 13 (which means 33 years ago, 1/3rd of a century) is not new and fresh anymore ? That can't be true !

I know it's a cliché. 🙂

[JonL]

Morgan (along with Mordred) has an entirely legitimate personal beef with the Pendragons. It starts with Uther betraying and killing her father Gorlois to take her mother Ingraine for his own. Imagine being a child when the king's army comes to your home town and lays siege to it, kills your father, and then ships you off to a nunnery so that he can get to banging your mom without any distractions. Eventually she gets married off to Urien one of the lords who helped Uther destroy her family. That she even gives her half-brother half-a-chance down the line is miraculous.

Then Gwenevere mean-girls Morgan out of court over the latter cheating on Urien. They bad-mouth her as a wicked sorceress while Merlin does the King's dirty work left and right. Of course it turns out that Gwen was a cheater too and Arthur drowned a literal boatload of children in an attempt to murder her nephew (Wait, Arthur & Margause? 😞 😞 😞 ).

All this lip service to virtue and righteousness coming out of Camalot is clearly a sack of lies built on one atrocity piled on her family after another. So yeah, may the crows eat their eyes.

Edited November 30, 2021 by JonL

[Tizun Thane]

On 11/30/2021 at 2:39 PM, JonL said:

Morgan (along with Mordred) has an entirely legitimate personal beef with the Pendragons. It starts with Uther betraying and killing her father Gorlois to take her mother Ingraine for his own. Imagine being a child when the king's army comes to your home town and lays siege to it, kills your father, and then ships you off to a nunnery so that he can get to banging your mom without any distractions. Eventually she gets married off to Urien one of the lords who helped Uther destroy her family. That she even gives her half-brother half-a-chance down the line is miraculous.

Then Gwenevere mean-girls Morgan out of court over the latter cheating on Urien. They bad-mouth her as a wicked sorceress while Merlin does the King's dirty work left and right. Of course it turns out that Gwen was a cheater too and Arthur drowned a literal boatload of children in an attempt to murder her nephew (Wait, Arthur & Margause? 😞 😞 😞 ).

That's my take on Morgan, very close from Excalibur, the movie. From her point of view, Arthur is a puppet of Merlin, the wicked puppetmaster, son of the devil, etc., and she is only a free spirit.

[SaxBasilisk]

On 11/30/2021 at 8:39 AM, JonL said:

Morgan (along with Mordred) has an entirely legitimate personal beef with the Pendragons. It starts with Uther betraying and killing her father Gorlois to take her mother Ingraine for his own. Imagine being a child when the king's army comes to your home town and lays siege to it, kills your father, and then ships you off to a nunnery so that he can get to banging your mom without any distractions. Eventually she gets married off to Urien one of the lords who helped Uther destroy her family. That she even gives her half-brother half-a-chance down the line is miraculous.

Then Gwenevere mean-girls Morgan out of court over the latter cheating on Urien. They bad-mouth her as a wicked sorceress while Merlin does the King's dirty work left and right. Of course it turns out that Gwen was a cheater too and Arthur drowned a literal boatload of children in an attempt to murder her nephew (Wait, Arthur & Margause? 😞 😞 😞 ).

All this lip service to virtue and righteousness coming out of Camalot is clearly a sack of lies built on one atrocity piled on her family after another. So yeah, may the crows eat their eyes.

Agreed to all of that... but her actions in the stories don't exactly fit with that particular interpretation. If I were a medieval enchantress and I had a deep and abiding hatred of someone, I might inspire rebellions or attempt an assassination. I wouldn't try to send a cup to his court that spilled on people unfaithful to their partners. Or make some guy green and invincible just to send him for a ritualized trading of blows over a year, knowing that it would probably be his champion who might get the axe. Or turn up at his deathbed to take him away to a mystical island to heal his wounds.

In saying this, I don't want to dismiss the importance of reputation and honor within Arthurian literature. Yet it almost seems as if her motivations are tied up in a combination of that hatred, a set of ideals in which mystical challenges to the principles of court are perceived as necessary, and the attitude of a sibling who's just messing with another sibling's stuff because they can but still cares at the end of the day. I'd like to be able to play that individual out, if I can.

[AlHazred]

When I was planning my Pendragon campaigns, I always liked the image of Merlin and Morgan as opposing chess players, turning the Matter of Britain into a contest between two Masters of Intrigue and Otherworldly Matters. But the motivations were opaque to me. Thanks to all for this enlightening discourse!

[Uqbarian]

A bit like AlHazred's chess image, I like a Morgan who's working at or near Merlin's level with a different agenda for Mythic Britain. Maybe not even opposing all the time. My vague idea is that she, like Merlin, has performed divinations and  prophetic visions, but neither of them see the whole picture, or at least Morgan thinks she has seen parts of the picture that Merlin has missed or discounted. I also like a not-exactly-evil Morgan who is interested in testing people for weaknesses rather than destroying Arthur or his realm, but also has a rather cruel sense of humour. (This does mean toning down or removing some of her actions from the campaign, of course.) What her agenda actually is (or Merlin's!), I haven't really worked out, but unless a player decides to explore that side of things in depth, I'm happy to handwave a lot of it as beyond knightly understanding.

There's also the option of going back to the Vulgate version, in which Morgan starts out as friends with Guinevere but comes to hate her after Morgan's affair with Guiomar is exposed. There she's not so focused on opposing Arthur directly as on bringing Guinevere down. 

[Morien]

3 hours ago, Uqbarian said:

My vague idea is that she, like Merlin, has performed divinations and  prophetic visions, but neither of them see the whole picture, or at least Morgan thinks she has seen parts of the picture that Merlin has missed or discounted.

Interesting idea. Just running with it, off the top of my head...

She could have seen L&G love affair, the breaking of the Round Table as the result, leading to Camlann, and its aftermath with the Saxons gobbling up the fractured Britons.

So at first, she might try to get rid of Arthur (Accolon storyline), figuring that with the Saxons defeated and Lancelot still missing from Camelot, Gawaine would manage to become the next High King. And when Lancelot then shows up, he can fall in love with the widowed Guinever and with his fast friendship forming with Gawaine, there is no fracturing of the Britons, leading to a new Golden Age.

However, after Lancelot's and Guinever's relationship starts, she starts worrying that Guinever might try to rule as a High Queen, with Lancelot's help, if Arthur dies. Gawaine might accede to that, but many of the others wouldn't. So killing Arthur would lead to a civil war. However, if she manages to expose Guinever's infidelity early enough, Lancelot has not yet amassed as much influence at court and the Round Table stays united behind Arthur. No civil war.

This might also explain why Morgan becomes so passive in as we get to the Grail Quest and Twilight. She has essentially given up, knowing what the future will bring, and all her efforts having been to naught. She doesn't have any personal animus towards Arthur, so that is why she shows up after Camlann, hoping to heal Arthur, so that he may return at some later date to lead the Britons again to that second Golden Age.

[merlyn]

I've thought that Morgan's real hatred being towards Guinevere for breaking up her affair with Guinevere's cousin in the Vulgate Cycle could explain a lot about her actions.

Her attempts to kill Arthur all take place before Lancelot comes to court.  From this perspective, Morgan's real target in those assassination attempts could be Guinevere, who would go from Queen of Britain to a powerless widow.  Even the plans to assume the throne might stem, not from ambition or even a belief that she's better suited to ruling the kingdom than Arthur, but to humiliate Guinevere further, who will now see Morgan decked in the honors that were once hers.

When Lancelot arrives and he and Guinevere fall in love, that changes everything.  Morgan now concludes that if she did away with Arthur, Guinevere would be free to marry Lancelot, so that Arthur's death wouldn't be such a blow to her.  Thus, her plan turns to exposing the Love Affair, which would see Guinevere sentenced to the stake as an adulteress.  (Hence, also, her periodic attempts to seduce Lancelot, to hurt Guinevere all the more.)  Hence, perhaps, also her willingness to take Arthur away to Avalon, since the reason for the feud is long over.

[Voord 99]

The option I’m using, for what it is worth, is to stress very hard that she is Morgan le Fay.  She is not a normal human with normal human motivations — she has weird otherworldly aspects to her.  It is dangerous to suppose that you, a normal mortal, can understand how her mind works.

Also: Morgan’s origin in Malory is the rather boring idea that she went to school in a nunnery and there learned a lot about magic.  This does not really explain how she becomes a queen in Avalon — it’s something that sets her up to be a run-of-the-mill enchantress.    And I personally feel that Morgan has become so iconic that she deserves more than that, an equivalent to Merlin’s special origin story.  

 So that’s a gap that can become a story for the PKs, as it did in my game, the story of how Morgan as a child becomes halfway to being part of Faerie and no normal mortal enchantress.  

[David 2]

I agree with Hzark10 that Morgan's ultimate nature and motivations should be left up to the GM. I know that Greg wanted her to be more a "sympathetic antagonist" than a proto-feminist pagan, as in Mists of Avalon. He ultimately settled on a a version closer to Malory, Lancelot-Grail Cycle, and Suite du Merlin, rather than Geoffrey of Monmouth's. Which I kinda agree with. I don't particularly like the earliest Queen of Avalon depiction of her, as it makes her a remote, inhuman, feminine ideal. A faceless goddess. I like how she's depicted in Malory, Lancelot-Grail, and the Suite du Merlin. She's human, and as other posters have mentioned, has a right to be pissed off about her father's death. She was torn from her mother's side, and the learned environment of Amesbury Abbey, to be married to a much older man in the far north. It might be inferred that she had a rough childhood. 🙂

But, what I like the most about her in these stories is that she's deeply flawed, though more wicked than evil. While she uses her magic to attempt to seize political power (and kill her brother and husband), and torture her perceived enemies (that poor boiled woman), she also uses it for frivolous reasons, out of spite, petty jealousy, and most often to seduce handsome knights. And she's tragically unlucky in love. So many of her lovers leave, betray her, or die. There's every indication that she's obsessed with Lancelot. And yet, as Morien mentioned, she does seem to slow down close to the Grail Quest. Whether it's because she's given up because of her Divinations, or simply because she's pushing 70-80 by the end of the story, Morgan definitely seems to mellow out in old age. She even seems to attempt a rapprochement with Arthur (murals), and perhaps demonstrates tenderness for him on the barge to Avalon. That's a fully realized character arc.

But, again, it should be up to the GM to decide. GMs should be able to use Morgan - or let her use their players! - in any way they find useful, interesting, or fun.

 

 

 

 

[Darius West]

On 12/3/2021 at 6:20 PM, David 2 said:

 And she's tragically unlucky in love. So many of her lovers leave, betray her, or die. There's every indication that she's obsessed with Lancelot.

Umm...  Or you can read that as her being an utterly unspeakable bitch to her boyfriends, many of whom leave after they discover that they cannot trust her an inch, or get killed in nasty ways following her agenda.  As for being obsessed with Lancelot, well (a) everyone is obsessed with Lancelot, he's a perfect Mary Sue who is only redeemed to literary humanity by his adultery, and (b) Imagine the damage Morgan could do with Lancelot in her camp.

I have read uncharitable souls who describe the Arthurian Romances as the "Apotheosis of Simping", which I thought was very uncharitable but viciously funny nonetheless.  In the case of Morgan Le Fay, I'd say that the relationship became intolerably abusive even for the poor masochistic souls who would normally be prepared to knee-walk from Camelot to Inverness for the sake of Fine Amor.