Runes for Rune Spells from Associated Dieties

[Ryan Kent]

When you get a Rune Spell from an associated diety with a variable rune type, such as aStorm Bull cultist selecting Shield fro Orlanth, do you use the runes of the associated diety or your diety?

[Kloster]

Your deity's rune pool. You don't have a rune pool for the associated deity.

[Richard S.]

I'd use the runes of the cult you're getting the spell from, so shield from orlanth would use air or movement

[Scotty]

13 hours ago, Ryan Kent said:

When you get a Rune Spell from an associated deity with a variable rune type, such as a Storm Bull cultist selecting Shield from Orlanth, do you use the runes of the associated deity or your deity?

From the associate deity. However in your example both cults have the air rune, so use the common rune.

In the example of Chalana Arroy receiving shield from Orlanth Adventurous, the adventurer would use their Air or Movement rune.

Shield is the only spell this currently applies too, the other two Axis Mundi & Discorporation aren't given to any associates.

[PhilHibbs]

On 3/9/2022 at 11:45 PM, Ryan Kent said:

When you get a Rune Spell from an associated diety with a variable rune type, such as a Storm Bull cultist selecting Shield from Orlanth, do you use the runes of the associated deity or your deity?

Quote

Any Rune of the cult providing the spell may be used to cast a spell indicated with the  Rune.

Yes, that seems clear, and we have a Scott Directive as well. It's pretty tough. I think Shield is the only example in the core rules, but there are a lot of cults that get it from an associate!

Chalana Arroy  from Orlanth 
Eiritha  from Waha the Butcher 
Ernalda  from Babeester Gor 
Maran Gor  from Babeester Gor 
The Seven Mothers  from Hwarin Dalthippa 
Storm Bull  from Orlanth 
Yinkin  from Orlanth 

Chalana Arroy and Eiritha are the only ones that have no runes in common with the spell's donor.

23 hours ago, Scotty said:

From the associate deity. However in your example both cults have the air rune, so use the common rune.

There's no reason that it has to be the common rune, although it is likely the best option. The Storm Bull might happen to have a higher Movement rune than Air. Or, their Air rune may have suffered an augment failure!

If your Chalana Arroy healer has poor Air and Movement runes, you could always spend the extra POW and make it into a matrix so that you can use POWx5 instead.

Edited March 11, 2022 by PhilHibbs

[Scotty]

30 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Yes, that seems clear, and we have a Scott Directive as well. It's pretty tough. I think Shield is the only example in the core rules, but there are a lot of cults that get it from an associate!

You might find this helpful:

• Rune Magic by Cult and Associate Cult

30 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Odd that Eiritha gets it from Storm Bull, and Storm Bull gets it from Orlanth...

There's a correction here:

Eiritha (page 291)

Associated Cults (page 292)

Delete

• Storm Bull: Provides the Shield spell.

Add

• Waha: Provides the Peaceful Cut skill, and the Shield spell.

[PhilHibbs]

On 3/11/2022 at 11:32 AM, Scotty said:

There's a correction here:

Eiritha (page 291)

Associated Cults (page 292)

Delete

• Storm Bull: Provides the Shield spell.

Add

• Waha: Provides the Peaceful Cut skill, and the Shield spell.

Thanks, I corrected my post. So Eiritha has no runes in common with the Shield spell donor, as well as CA. In fact, BOTH runes are OPPOSITE so I pity any Eiritha worshipper trying to cast Shield!

Edited April 19, 2022 by PhilHibbs

[Lordabdul]

7 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

In fact, BOTH runes are OPPOSITE so I pity any Eiritha worshipper trying to cast Shield!

Huh, good point... maybe it's better to ignore or complement the correction by keeping Storm Bull as a possible donor (Beast Rune in common). It seems just as appropriate that Eirithia gets protection from her husband than from her son.

[Richard S.]

28 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

Huh, good point... maybe it's better to ignore or complement the correction by keeping Storm Bull as a possible donor (Beast Rune in common). It seems just as appropriate that Eirithia gets protection from her husband than from her son.

I mean Storm Bull doesn't really have it to give in the first place, since he only has it as an associate of Orlanth.

[Lordabdul]

52 minutes ago, Richard S. said:

I mean Storm Bull doesn't really have it to give in the first place, since he only has it as an associate of Orlanth.

(...hold on while I call @Crel to write some new myth where Shield was stolen and passed around just as Sword/Death was)

[PhilHibbs]

1 hour ago, Richard S. said:

I mean Storm Bull doesn't really have it to give in the first place, since he only has it as an associate of Orlanth.

I don't see that as a show-stopper.

[Steve]

On 3/10/2022 at 1:08 PM, Scotty said:

From the associate deity. However in your example both cults have the air rune, so use the common rune.

When you cast an associated cult's Rune spell, which god do you start to heroform?

You're using Rune points from your own god, so if that Eiritha initiate casts Shield do they not heroform Eiritha as with their other Rune magic, given that they're using their connection with Eiritha to do so?

Do they still heroform Eiritha but you're saying they use Waha's runes? That seems odd. Or they heroform Waha for this spell while using Eiritha's Rune points?

Edited March 12, 2022 by Steve

[David Scott]

5 hours ago, Steve said:

When you cast an associated cult's Rune spell, which god do you start to heroform?

You're using Rune points from your own god, so if that Eiritha initiate casts Shield do they not heroform Eiritha as with their other Rune magic, given that they're using their connection with Eiritha to do so?

Eiritha casting shield is still Eiritha, the spell was gifted / lent / bestowed (what ever the story is)

5 hours ago, Steve said:

Do they still heroform Eiritha but you're saying they use Waha's runes?

Yes, awkward as though it may be. You are the god when they received that power.

5 hours ago, Steve said:

That seems odd.

Associate rune spells have the problem that their origin is elsewhere, but due to mythological links they may or may not be hard to use. In the shield example it shows the real nature of the gender division in Praxian society. Remember that an adventurer needs only one rune at over 50% to join a cult. So it's possible to have an Eiritha priestess with:

Beast 90% / Man 10%

Life 10% / Death 90%

and still be able to cast cult special magic and be good with shield. 

5 hours ago, Steve said:

Or they heroform Waha for this spell while using Eiritha's Rune points?

No

Edited March 12, 2022 by David Scott

[Shiningbrow]

I see it as - the Associated deity has taught the primary deity how to use that power, so that primary deity will obviously manifest as themselves.

However, they still need to use that particular Rune to make that power manifest.

(The Associated spells are a little mis-labelled, as they're still coming from the primary deity... Like "Oh, look what I learned from X the other Age")

[Austin]

On 3/11/2022 at 2:48 PM, lordabdul said:

(...hold on while I call @Crel to write some new myth where Shield was stolen and passed around just as Sword/Death was)

Off the cuff, I think the more interesting bit would probably be how the hell Trickster got his hands on the damn thing in the first place. Cuz let's be honest, if anyone is gonna start that chain of events, of course it's gonna be the Trickster. Where would the One True Shield come from? Why are gods fighting over it? In what ways is it, like Death, an omnipotent, terrible divine force?

Dammit, Ludo! Rabbit holes unto rabbit holes!

[Joerg]

Orlanth has more than one shield. The Shield of Justice taken from Yelmalio at the Hill of Gold, the Shield of Arran he wields for his wife, and possibly more.

His Hill of Gold appearance has some things in common with Eurmal.

 

The myth should be somewhat different from the Sword Story, though.

Might Eurmal have impersonated the missing shield, absorbing damage for their weilder while in that shape? Possibly just some detached body part?

 

What is the True Shield? Possibly the Sun Dome above? The shell of Darkness below? The hardness of the Lozenge, with the Spike as its buckle?