Changing cults and Rune pools

[Akhôrahil]

2 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Your Glorantha varying is fine... but that's a big change. It's very well established that the god has no say whatsoever.

I could also see a risk of dodging responsibility here, if your god continuously has to allow or disallow your spellcasting.

PC: I don’t know if he deserves it or not, but if not, Orlanth will just withhold the magic *casts Lightning at target*

Target: *gets fried to a crisp*

PC, sanctimoniously: God wills it!

Edited July 28, 2022 by Akhôrahil

[French Desperate WindChild]

4 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

I could also see a risk of dodging responsibility here, if your god continuously has to allow or disallow your spellcasting.

PC: I don’t know if he deserves it or not, but if not, Orlanth will just withhold the magic *casts Lightning at target*

Target: *gets fried to a crisp*

PC, sanctimoniously: God wills it!

except if you consider that asking your god to do something "wrong" gives you some bad feedback, you are disturbing your god for wrong reasons after all. But again that's house rule / house god, I m not saying it is better than the core rules.

If I were gloranthan and I undestood that I can do what I want with my divine spells without any consideration from my gods, well... I will not have any devotion then, why respect and love some.. robot ? So, because I am respectable (so few...)  I would try to become a sorcerer (or a shaman if I have the option).

But anyway, we are in a  rune pool topic !

[JRE]

I am in the field that the gods are functionally magic machines fixed outside of time, without free will, because they gave it up in the Great Compromise. Becoming a god in time also involves giving up your will to become a fixed presence in God time. If you do not like it, stay a hero. 

Which means, for me, that only a few mythically accepted paths allow to change deities and keeping the rune pool, as Ernalda does not and cannot care if your switch to Vinga is justified or not, and even if the priests agree that it is justified, they cannot force the deity to transfer the points.

The well known paths are progression within a pantheon, so you can go from Ernalda to Maran Gor or Asrelia and Ty Kora Tek and with the right ceremony transfer your runepool to the new deity. It usually requires the support of the cult hierarchy, though someone appropiately heroic may ask the deity directly, and as it is an established path, succeed relatively easy.

That fits with retiring Esrolian Queens by side stepping them to Asrelia. The magic changes, but they are still useful to the family. My inclusion of Maran Gor makes Ernalda's temples very dangerous when pushed to the limit.

A subcult automatically shares the pool with the primary cult, so for me Orlanth Odayla uses the Orlanth rune pool, because it is a sub cult. As an associate cult, a pure Odayla cultist has a separate runepool, but I would allow them to increase their Odayla runepool at an Orlanth Odayla shrine, and even learn its spell if they did not know it earlier. But you cannot do it in a normal Orlanth temple if there is not either an Odayla shrine or an Orlanth Odayla one.

An Orlanth Odayla cultist could graduiate to a full Odayla initiate, iMG without paying POW, as they paid it when joining the subcult and learning the the subcult magic. I would allow them to split their runepool between them, though usually they will get only the one Odayla spell, and any other common magic they decide to move from Orlanth to Odayla, so usually one single runepoint. But the change of spells would be fixed after initiation. They will have double duties and tithes, however.. 

In the opposite way, an Odayla cultist wanting to join Orlanth Odayla, they need to pay one POW to join Orlanth, and will have then one point of Orlanth Runepool, and as they already have Odayla magic, it could be any Orlanth magic available at the temple, or the shrine Odayla spell if they want to be able to cast it through Orlanth, rather than Odayla.

When sacrificing POW at an Orlanth Odayla shrine, they would need to choose whether it goes to Odayla (and probably does not learn a new spell, as the two eligible spells would be the shrine's and Orlanth's associate spell for Odayla) or Orlanth. If I allow an Orlanth Odayla temple, then he could add to Odayla  any common magic spell he did not have through Odayla, and it may be a repeat with his Orlanth runespells, just accesible through Odayla's runepool. 

And for me that is the best case, as they are allied culkts that usually allow the other worshippers to join worship automatically.

[Soccercalle]

Illumination would not be so powerful if Gods could deny initiates to use magic in a way they didnt like. 

[French Desperate WindChild]

17 hours ago, Soccercalle said:

Illumination would not be so powerful if Gods could deny initiates to use magic in a way they didnt like. 

except if you allow illuminate to have a "trick god power"

In my glorantha, the gods are aware however they are aware because they get information from their mundane followers.

That's why they can answer (divination, etc...) with more or lessaccuracy. If no follower know something the god cannot answer

Same reason a god can send a spirit of reprisal: There is at least the initiate who is to be blamed who, willingly or not, communicated the wrong deeds to the god.

So when an illuminate is now able to avoid a spirit of reprisal, that's just she is able to "trick" the god: "no she doesn't deserve a sanction because she did no bad things" : 

a) there is no information - if the deeds are hidden -

or

b) there are conflicting information, if some devoted initiate saw the illuminate did someting wrong, it is wrong for the devoted initiate, but it is nothing / is fine for the illuminate => the god cannot decide with the worshippers feedbacks and cannot investigate (great compromise)

 

so what does happen if a initiate, illuminate, ask her god to "do" the spell ? the god's only information about the situation is what the illuminate shares with him. Because she has the trick the god ability, she is able to convince the god to cast the spell, showing the -real or not - reasons to do it, hidding the reasons to not do it.

In fact, when gm play (gm... or just me ? 😛 ) that gods are able to decide, they may (should ?) create this power. Gods are able to be tricked by illuminates (and maybe some other people)

[Soccercalle]

A related question. Is the CHA maximum for rune points related to your total number of rune points or the maximum for every rune pool you have access to? I think that it should be the first as you otherwise would make power players wanting to initiate to many cults (go full Arkat). I dont think that even a "cheater" like Argrath started to join other cults to get more rune magic.

[soltakss]

2 hours ago, Soccercalle said:

Is the CHA maximum for rune points related to your total number of rune points or the maximum for every rune pool you have access to?

I play that each Rune Pool is limited by CHA.

Personally, I am not in the business of hobbling heroic Adventurers.

 

[Rodney Dangerduck]

2 hours ago, Soccercalle said:

A related question. Is the CHA maximum for rune points related to your total number of rune points or the maximum for every rune pool you have access to? I think that it should be the first as you otherwise would make power players wanting to initiate to many cults (go full Arkat). I dont think that even a "cheater" like Argrath started to join other cults to get more rune magic.

Max for each rune pool.  So the rules encourage powergamers to join multiple cults.  Which I agree is not a great thing.

Power players could also consider doing enchantments, which, I think, do not count against their CHA limit.

 

[French Desperate WindChild]

4 hours ago, Soccercalle said:

A related question. Is the CHA maximum for rune points related to your total number of rune points or the maximum for every rune pool you have access to? I think that it should be the first as you otherwise would make power players wanting to initiate to many cults (go full Arkat). I dont think that even a "cheater" like Argrath started to join other cults to get more rune magic.

as other said, by runepool

however i m not sure it is a true power gaming

just imagine how many pow (so seasons) you have to sacrifice to reach this limit twice, and if pow should not be used for better options (heroic pools/ abilities, enchant, ....)

i made some simulation in another post few weeks ago. For me this limit (or no-limit) is not a real "breach"

Edited July 31, 2022 by French Desperate WindChild

[Soccercalle]

1 hour ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Max for each rune pool.  So the rules encourage powergamers to join multiple cults.  Which I agree is not a great thing.

Power players could also consider doing enchantments, which, I think, do not count against their CHA limit.

 

Enchantments is more ok. It costs permanent POW. 

[Shiningbrow]

On 8/1/2022 at 2:05 AM, French Desperate WindChild said:

just imagine how many pow (so seasons) you have to sacrifice to reach this limit twice, and if pow should not be used for better options (heroic pools/ abilities, enchant, ....)

It's actually many years... - Unless you CHA is really low 😛

Even if your CHA is an average 11, that means 22 RPs total... How long does it take to go up 22 points of POW??? 6 seasons, if you're super lucky, you'll manage 2 points each season - so, that's at least 2 years. Obviously, the chances of that are quite low. (depending on starting POW... if it's average, then you've got about a 50% chance at getting a 33% increase of 2 points (and 33% of getting nothing)).

Four years would be an realistic absolute minimum... and assumes no other need for that POW... (and, again, that's with only 11 CHA, and 11 POW).

[PhilHibbs]

7 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

How long does it take to go up 22 points of POW??? 6 seasons, if you're super lucky, you'll manage 2 points each season - so, that's at least 2 years. Obviously, the chances of that are quite low.

Depends on how many disease spirits you can find to fight off.

[Kloster]

9 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Depends on how many disease spirits you can find to fight off.

Also depends on Battle skill outcomes (Specials and Criticals bring an extra POW experience check).

[PhilHibbs]

10 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Depends on how many disease spirits you can find to fight off.

14 minutes ago, Kloster said:

Also depends on Battle skill outcomes (Specials and Criticals bring an extra POW experience check).

Those just allow you to tick the check box, which you then roll for normally at the end of the season, so it only makes a difference if you didn't get a POW tick for another reason that season.

Disease spirit gains are in addition to the seasonal check chance. Risky though, and the way I read it you can't just find and beat up a spirit. It has to attack you and then you fight it off.

[Kloster]

3 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Those just allow you to tick the check box, which you then roll for normally at the end of the season, so it only makes a difference if you didn't get a POW tick for another reason that season.

This is not how I understand it. I may be wrong.

3 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Disease spirit gains are in addition to the seasonal check chance. Risky though, and the way I read it you can't just find and beat up a spirit. It has to attack you and then you fight it off.

I read it the same way as you.

[French Desperate WindChild]

54 minutes ago, Kloster said:

This is not how I understand it. I may be wrong.

it seems to me it is like @PhilHibbs says, that give you a check. Not a second or additional or .., just a check

[radmonger]

20 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

It's actually many years... - Unless you CHA is really low 😛

I don't think the cap matters so much in play, as it does as a justification for why there are relatively few people much more powerful than the typical 21 to 25 year old PCs. So they are the ones going on adventures and solving problems, rather than solely reporting them to their elders and betters who can then deal with them trivially. And also why the route to great personal power is more 'go on a heroquest' than simply 'get older'.

 

[Glyph]

2 hours ago, Kloster said:

This is not how I understand it. I may be wrong.

I agree with Phil's understanding of this, the Battle skill description states

'The Battle Results table shows the results of the engagement for that adventurer. The Experience column lists all the skills that the adventurer may check for experience and possibly improve later (see the Between Adventures chapter).'

and within the table results

'Best three weapons and POW experience check.'

It seems to me that once you've got your experience checks the improvement roll happens between adventures as normal, I'm not seeing anything about additional improvement rolls

[Shiningbrow]

On 8/4/2022 at 6:38 AM, PhilHibbs said:

Depends on how many disease spirits you can find to fight off.

I was deliberately avoiding that..... While possible, I'd like to think generally unlikely to have more than 1 or 2 per year... of course, YGMMV (that's GM).

[Squaredeal Sten]

On 8/5/2022 at 7:28 AM, Shiningbrow said:

I was deliberately avoiding that..... While possible, I'd like to think generally unlikely to have more than 1 or 2 per year... of course, YGMMV (that's GM).

Disease spirits turned out to be a great source of POW for the Chalana Arroy in my campaign.  It didn't take too many to get to POW 21 either, and to pile up rune spells.  If a munchkin wants a powerful magicker and can control the bloodthirstiness, CA is a great cult.