Water book cults

[Soccercalle]

I would include Zola Fel. It may be a small river in Glorantha. But its THE River in Prax that is one of the most important places and one of the available homelands for PCs. The only reason to not include it in the Cults book is if a Prax/Pavis book comes earlier.

[mfbrandi]

1 hour ago, Soccercalle said:

I would include Zola Fel.

A cult of newtling and river elf ecoterrorists fighting a guerrilla war against Waha, god of toxic run-off?

[JayLay]

To get a feeling for what we could expect out of the water cults book, I've been consulting the Red Book of Magic and all spells that utilise the water rune. As an overall vibe the spells tend to be creature summoning spells, spells that control bodies of water, or spells about traversing water.

Awaken Loon, Breathe Water, Call Monster, Calm Waters, Control Flood, Create Flippers, Dew, Drown, Fireshield, Flashflood, Float, Flood, Magnify Command, Plastron, Predict Weather, Purify Water, Rain, Ride River Horse, Sea Strength, Strong Net, Submerge, Summon Dolphin, Summon Fish, Summon Ludoch, Summon Nereid, Summon Salmon, Summon Tidal Wave, Transform Head (Turtle), Waterwalk, Waterspout, Whirlpool (31 spells total)

Though I expect we will also see some new spells that are not in RBoM.

[David Scott]

14 minutes ago, JayLay said:

To get a feeling for what we could expect out of the water cults book, I've been consulting the Red Book of Magic and all spells that utilise the water rune. As an overall vibe the spells tend to be creature summoning spells, spells that control bodies of water, or spells about traversing water.

You can find their origin by consulting Rune Magic by Cult and Associate Cult and Master Lists: Rune/Divine Magic in the MIGIII.

[Brian Duguid]

2 hours ago, David Scott said:

You can find their origin by consulting Rune Magic by Cult and Associate Cult and Master Lists: Rune/Divine Magic in the MIGIII.

What are the odds that at the end of all this there may be some spells in the RBoM without a published cult that uses them?

I'm thinking specifically of the Sofali spells here, noting that it isn't on this admittedly non-definitive list.

[Whizbang]

On 5/6/2024 at 10:16 AM, g33k said:

Engizi (who I suspect will be treated as the sort of "river-God Archetype")

Yelngizio, you mean.

[Nick Brooke]

5 hours ago, Brian Duguid said:

What are the odds that at the end of all this there may be some spells in the RBoM without a published cult that uses them?

I'm thinking specifically of the Sofali spells here, noting that it isn't on this admittedly non-definitive list.

I’d expect they’ll make it into the Shamanic / Hykimi / Spirit Cults book, whatever that ends up being called.

[Darius West]

Does Anilla go "bloop" when she falls into Magasta's Pool?  If so, how far away can the bloop be heard?

Edited May 19 by Darius West

[Joerg]

35 minutes ago, Darius West said:

Does Anilla go "bloop" when she falls into Magasta's Pool?  If so, how far away can the bloop be heard?

IMG, Magasta's whirlpool is the center of the watery doughnut that is Sramak's River, with a massive vertical surface pushing back the Chaos Rift, closing it to the rest of the world. Annilla would touch down tangentially and probably rides a special current that takes her to the outside of the Gates of Dusk in about a day, to wait for the arrival of Lorion for her assisted ascent back to Pole Star. The splash might be audible only to the Chaos Rift.

[Darius West]

On 5/19/2024 at 7:15 PM, Joerg said:

IMG, Magasta's whirlpool is the center of the watery doughnut that is Sramak's River, with a massive vertical surface pushing back the Chaos Rift, closing it to the rest of the world. Annilla would touch down tangentially and probably rides a special current that takes her to the outside of the Gates of Dusk in about a day, to wait for the arrival of Lorion for her assisted ascent back to Pole Star. The splash might be audible only to the Chaos Rift.

I thought Annilla invariably drops from the crest of the Dome all the way down as a blue flash.  I'm sure I read it described that way somewhere?  Possibly in Elder Secrets?

Edited May 20 by Darius West

[Joerg]

3 hours ago, Darius West said:

I thought Annilla invariably drops from the crest of the Dome all the way down as a blue flash.  I'm sure I read it described that way somewhere?  Possibly in Elder Secrets?

All the way down means into the funnel of raging waters that form Magasta's Whirlpool. Brastalos' column of air ought to extend at least 500 miles below the surface of the Homeward Ocean. That allows Annilla to fall down far below the horizon without getting wet. Somewhere around that depth are the iron island and the island of no return, on the border between the world of the living and the world of the dead, both of which can observe her passing overhead, narrowing the funnel in her wake.

[Darius West]

On 5/21/2024 at 1:08 AM, Joerg said:

All the way down means into the funnel of raging waters that form Magasta's Whirlpool. Brastalos' column of air ought to extend at least 500 miles below the surface of the Homeward Ocean. That allows Annilla to fall down far below the horizon without getting wet. Somewhere around that depth are the iron island and the island of no return, on the border between the world of the living and the world of the dead, both of which can observe her passing overhead, narrowing the funnel in her wake.

I hope Annilla misses the islands when she descends at high speed, as she does.  Imagine the clang if she hit the iron island !  The whole of Glorantha would ring like a bell, given the dome and such. 😄

[Jape_Vicho]

I'm hoping for Golod, he looks like a curious critter.

[JayLay]

On 5/14/2024 at 9:49 PM, David Scott said:

You can find their origin by consulting Rune Magic by Cult and Associate Cult and Master Lists: Rune/Divine Magic in the MIGIII.

For those curious, I've gone through the list and pulled together cited gods. For a fair few entries there are no gods mentioned, and thus aren't included below. Otherwise gods associated with the spells in RoBM include:

• Breathe Water: Engizi, Magasta (as an associate of various)
• Calm Waters: Choralinthor (as an associate of Ernalda)
• Control Flood: Oslira (as an associate of Biselenslib)
• Dew: Dew Maid
• Fireshield: Engizi
• Float: Dormal (Ygg associate), Diros (Engizi associate), Magasta (Mastakos associate), Yestendeos (SurEnslib/Biselenslib associate)
• Flood: Engizi (Heler as rain variant)
• Rain: Heler
• Ride River Horse: River Horse
• Strongnet: Engizi
• Summon Naiad: Engizi (This wasn't on my original list, but Summon Nereid was. Seems like a discrepancy between RQG and RBoM)
• Summon Water Elemental: Engizi, King Undine (as Heler associate), Young Elementals (as 7M associate)
• Waterwalk: Oslira (as Surenslib associate)

The most notable outlier is Float, which clearly corresponds to "Boat gods" as opposed to deities of the waters. At the moment the majority of spells are associated with river deities, either in the form of the Oslira or Engizi.

[theconfusingeel]

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/rune-magic-shield/

this post mentions manthi giving shield, so he might be included

[davecake]

On 5/14/2024 at 10:08 PM, Brian Duguid said:

I'm thinking specifically of the Sofali spells here, noting that it isn't on this admittedly non-definitive list.

If it doesn’t make it into the Shaman book with the other hsunchen cults as Nick suggests, fear not, I did a pretty thorough look at the Sofali, including a Sofala cult write up (with those spells) for our East Isles books. 

[Goldennose]

On 6/18/2024 at 7:58 PM, davecake said:

East Isles books

Yes. It is in Vol 4: Sironomandidi. There is a long chapter about the sofali culture, creating sofali character and cults, done by David Cake and Vesa Lehtinen. There is also a sample NPC, mini adventure and adventure seed.

[theconfusingeel]

Could any of the sea dieties be war gods? Seeing that they invaded the earth cube during the storm age, and were relatively successfull seeing that most of glorantha is water, I imagine some have that role.
Looking at the god chart maybe Sshorg and Banthe? Sshorg has myths about invading the earth, and Banthe seems to be her equivbalent so I guess they could do that.

[metcalph]

22 minutes ago, theconfusingeel said:

Could any of the sea dieties be war gods? Seeing that they invaded the earth cube during the storm age, and were relatively successfull seeing that most of glorantha is water, I imagine some have that role.
Looking at the god chart maybe Sshorg and Banthe? Sshorg has myths about invading the earth, and Banthe seems to be her equivbalent so I guess they could do that.

Wachaza is the merfolk war god and was so awesome that even the God Learners worshipped him.

[David Scott]

8 minutes ago, theconfusingeel said:

Could any of the sea deities be war gods?

Wachaza is a war god. Robber, Wachaza's mother is Magasta's Death aspect.

8 minutes ago, theconfusingeel said:

Seeing that they invaded the earth cube during the storm age, and were relatively successful seeing that most of glorantha is water, I imagine some have that role.

The sea rose up and drowned the land, it's wasn't a fight just an overwhelming and drowning (water beats land in the elemental wheel - look at the arrows on the adventurers sheet) The drowning aspect of the Water pantheon is personified by King Undine's elemental children (undines), including Tidal Wave, Ship Breaker, and Island Gulper.

 

[theconfusingeel]

I meant specifically gods of seas, that's why I mentioned Banthe and Sshorg, I knew about Wachaza but i was trying to find more water warrior god.

thinking about it, Drospoly and varachulanga might also be worshiped by merman warriors(thought drospoly might be a ty kora tek type god, hopefuly we get more on him in the water book). Manthi provides shield so he might be a warrior too.

4 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Wachaza is the merfolk war god and was so awesome that even the God Learners worshipped him.

I assume that has to do with them being a naval empire.
 

[Mao]

9 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Wachaza is the merfolk war god and was so awesome that even the God Learners worshipped him.

We can probably safely assume that Fang of Wachaza (page 50, Red Book of Magic) is a Wachaza spell. It will outright kill someone who doesn't succeed in a CON resistance check against a hit from a spear, javelin, dart or trident. It's five rune points which is a lot, but it is temporal so you could get a major boost in lethality with Wachaza marines mass all being able to cast it throughout a battle. So the God Learners saw a War Cult that had instant death magic, and could quite easily be integrated into a fleet. Floating temple battle barges are a really scary prospect to deal with! They don't need to retire to their clan stead temple for their rune points, all they need is to organise in their fleet, do a worship ceremony and that's that. They're already on the ocean. Of course this is me assuming, maybe Wachaza is actually a bit more restrictive than that.

I have actually noticed in the Jeff post about the Emperor of the Land and Sea (that's what is essentially the leader of the Middle Sea Empire, i.e. the expression of power of the God Learners as a temporal ruling body. Or maybe the God Learners are an expression of the magical power of the Middle Sea Empire?) the idea is their military force moved as a giant imperial fleet. Complete with 20,000 sailors and Wachaza marines. Jeff is implying that the fleet basically moved as a floating city (a mobile metropolis being the exact words).
Given the numbers involved, and how game-y we can assume the God Learners were; they probably abused the fleet to its fullest. I could totally see them decking out their ships with shrines to every single associate of Wachaza (which they'd be able to find out who is and who isn't) and maximise rune point recovery, from the holy days of Wachaza associates, for their Marines so that they're not caught lacking the Rune Points necessary for warfare.
The fleet was also backed up by water and air elementals that meant fighting them on their terms would be an uphill battle. Basically the fleet seems kind of like the Gloranthan equivalent of a whole fleet of Aircraft Carriers. They could park it near their enemies and just harass them endlessly.

the Jeff-post in question: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/the-divine-fortune-of-the-emperor-of-land-and-sea/
I find this characterisation of the God Leaner Empire as being more than just experimental hero quester scientists quite interesting. And given how powerful they were at sea, it makes The Closing make even more sense and perhaps makes us sympathetic to the reasons for it. Even if shutting down ocean trade would have caused many, many problems.

[David Scott]

4 minutes ago, theconfusingeel said:

I meant specifically gods of seas

Then I'd say no. These regional sea gods are analogous to the land goddesses, making up the waters of their region. While they may have had wars of conquest in their origins or born of conquest, now they are the waters of their regions. The merfolk undoubtably give a portion of their worship to them through their normal cult rituals, Those sailing over them would propitiate them, wish for calm waters and easy passage. With Sshorg and Banthe as the ancestors of these seas, they will also get a portion of this worship.

[theconfusingeel]

3 minutes ago, Mao said:

We can probably safely assume that Fang of Wachaza (page 50, Red Book of Magic) is a Wachaza spell. It will outright kill someone who doesn't succeed in a CON resistance check against a hit from a spear, javelin, dart or trident. It's five rune points which is a lot, but it is temporal so you could get a major boost in lethality with Wachaza marines mass all being able to cast it throughout a battle. So the God Learners saw a War Cult that had instant death magic, and could quite easily be integrated into a fleet.

I normally don't like to theorise about what the god learners changed, but that spell seems a bit too overpowered for them not have had a hand in creating it

[PaulJW]

I suspect (and I may be wrong) that the Water cults book, when it comes out, will mostly include those cults listed in the Mythology book.  If you look at the Mythology book, under their catalogue of gods, under Lightbringers (p114 onward), all the gods listed bar Kolat get their own section in the Lightbringer cult book.  Likewise Earth deities.  Likewise Lunars.  So the basic format in Mythology probably gives us a good guide as to what will probably go in the other cults of RQ books.

On that basis, the probable shoe-ins for the water deities cults book will be:  Magasta. Choralinthor, Dormal, Engizi, Oslira, Triolina, Wachaza.  That's not as many as appear in the other three cults books out so far, so I expect they will add to them.  However, those would be the ones I'd say are for virtual definite.  Clues to possible others might lie on the genealogy of the water deities on p126 of Mythology (possibly...).  Others we might see (as they made it into RQ3 Gods of Glorantha) would be maybe some of the East Isles gods (Lumavoxoran, Hobimarong, Saliligor all got short write ups and were all water related).  Tsankth got a full write up in Gods of Glorantha (god of pirates), so I'd expect to see that one make a come-back.  We might well get Zola Fel, as that one has been written up before in some detail.   

Those would be my guesses anyway.

Edited July 3 by PaulJW