Water book cults

[theconfusingeel]

Going off the well of Daliath the water book includes 7 cults(Magasta,Oslira,Engizi,Choralinthor,Dormal,Triolina and Wachaza), these being from the time there was just one cult book for all the pantheons. The greater and major gods post says that all major gods are getting write ups and specifically includes the sea gods, naming Brastalos, Daliath, Drospoly, Murthdrya, Nelat, Tholaina, and Triolina.
Now my question is, apart from these , what other gods could be included? I'm mostly curious because i don't think most of these cults have gotten write ups before and the water pantheon hasn't really been covered in detail.
 

Edited May 7 by Scotty
Links added for reference

[g33k]

56 minutes ago, theconfusingeel said:

Going off the well of Daliath the water book includes 7 cults(Magasta,Oslira,Engizi,Choralinthor,Dormal,Triolina and Wachaza), these being from the time there was just one cult book for all the pantheons. The greater and major gods post says that all major gods are getting write ups and specifically includes the sea gods, naming Brastalos, Daliath, Drospoly, Murthdrya, Nelat, Tholaina, and Triolina.
Now my question is, apart from these , what other gods could be included? I'm mostly curious because i don't think most of these cults have gotten write ups before and the water pantheon hasn't really been covered in detail.

I suspect a careful reading of Mythology and/or Prosopaedia will show likely candidates...  I see 14 above, across the 2 sources you cite.

I presume we'll also see Sramak!

I don't know if Zola Fel, Oslira, etc will be taken as a "sub-cults" or "alternate faces" of Engizi (who I suspect will be treated as the sort of "river-God Archetype") or if each major river will get a fully-independent deity in the book; I see "Oslira" in your list above, but the Giant-Cradle link with Zola Fel also seems like a critical element of Giantish mythology, so...

Possibly @Jeff will grace us with a Table of Contents <nudge,nudge> ... ?

[Brian Duguid]

These aren't gods, but I'm hoping we'll also get a mini-bestiary for all the various sea races that were left out of the RQG Bestiary.

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, theconfusingeel said:

the water book includes 7 cults(Magasta,Oslira,Engizi,Choralinthor,Dormal,Triolina and Wachaza)

Brastalos, Daliath, Drospoly, Murthdrya, Nelat, Tholaina, and Triolina

what other gods could be included?

Daliath and Nelat figure strongly in other myths so would seem likely. Brastalos probably is just part of Magasta cult.

Annilla might go equally well with Water gods as with the Darkness gods. 

 

[theconfusingeel]

3 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Daliath and Nelat figure strongly in other myths so would seem likely. Brastalos probably is just part of Magasta cult.

Annilla might go equally well with Water gods as with the Darkness gods. 

 

Annilla is part of the darkness book, plus it speciffically says Brastalos gets a writeup
"With the exception of the Invisible God and Jotimam, we have write-ups of all of these cults coming out soon. Including Sea Gods, I have write-ups for Brastalos, Daliath, Drospoly, Murthdrya, Nelat, Tholaina, and Triolina."
https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/greater-and-major-gods/

Edited May 6 by theconfusingeel

[jajagappa]

2 minutes ago, theconfusingeel said:

we have write-ups of all of these cults coming out soon. Including Sea Gods, I have write-ups for Brastalos, Daliath, Drospoly, Murthdrya, Nelat, Tholaina, and Triolina.
https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/greater-and-major-gods/

Thanks for noting, and yes, that's probably most of the rest. The post you note does mention Gloomshark, so potentially that is included as well.

[Joerg]

The Mythology Book spoils which long cult formats are going to be in which book - that's why I expect that Annilla will be in Darkness (again), and Framanthe and Sramak at best with their brother. The oceans, currents and seas apparently draw a blank, with Lorion (Engizi) and Sshorga (Oslira) explaining the rivers (despite being outliers, unlike e.g. Zola Fel).

[theconfusingeel]

22 minutes ago, g33k said:

I suspect a careful reading of Mythology and/or Prosopaedia will show likely candidates...  I see 14 above, across the 2 sources you cite.

I presume we'll also see Sramak!

I don't know if Zola Fel, Oslira, etc will be taken as a "sub-cults" or "alternate faces" of Engizi (who I suspect will be treated as the sort of "river-God Archetype") or if each major river will get a fully-independent deity in the book; I see "Oslira" in your list above, but the Giant-Cradle link with Zola Fel also seems like a critical element of Giantish mythology, so...

Possibly @Jeff will grace us with a Table of Contents <nudge,nudge> ... ?

there's actually 13, triolina is mentioned twice cause I copy pasted that from the article.
The first list is from a preview of the gods of glorantha book from  back in 2019, and there Oslira was separate from Engizi. It's possible that they might restructure river cults into one section now but who knows.
Also does sramak have a cult? he seems more import genealogically to me.

8 minutes ago, Brian Duguid said:

These aren't gods, but I'm hoping we'll also get a mini-bestiary for all the various sea races that were left out of the RQG Bestiary.

Maybe we'll get a "merpak" to go along with it.

[Eff]

I think an interesting question about this book for me would be- what is the organizing principle? Why are these cults put together, and what do they say about the power of water in Glorantha?

[jajagappa]

45 minutes ago, Joerg said:

The oceans, currents and seas apparently draw a blank

I wouldn't be surprised to see some of the material on oceans and currents, or the doldrums, from the Guide to be included.

[Joerg]

  

16 minutes ago, Eff said:

I think an interesting question about this book for me would be- what is the organizing principle? Why are these cults put together, and what do they say about the power of water in Glorantha?

The power of water as it affects the drylanders (and more importantly the coastal dwellers). It is not as easy to provide underwater adventures without major maguffins to tie drylanders and other air breathers into the underwater action. Even writing up playable game material (scenarios, tribes) for the water dwellers of the intertidal takes more work than for the land dwellers of the coasts. Underwater encounters? Hard to write, even if you use a convenient interface like the Fish Roads. I have been trying.

And that's without Gloranthan physics. Does water pressure increase by one atmosphere for each meter below the surface, or is there a different gradient towards Drospoly's depths?

1 minute ago, jajagappa said:

48 minutes ago, Joerg said:

The oceans, currents and seas apparently draw a blank

I wouldn't be surprised to see some of the material on oceans and currents, or the doldrums, from the Guide to be included.

The Missing Lands had some more material on the genealogies of the waters. No idea how much of this (like Bab the Food Goddess, aka Ga/Gata) will be struck from canon.
 

[theconfusingeel]

9 minutes ago, Joerg said:

  

The power of water as it affects the drylanders (and more importantly the coastal dwellers).

 

 

It does seem like they're going to cover some gods mostly worshipped by mermen(like drospoly), so I think it's going to include merman perspectives too.
Either way to reply to your other comment I don't know if going off the mythology god list is going to be that useful, because it's based of what gods were included in the water section of the gods of glorantha book, and now that it's a separate book I think they're going to add a lot more to it(seeing that most of the other cult books have around 15 cults, and this would have 7 in that state)

[Nick Brooke]

If it was up to me, I’d make this the one-stop Sea Book for RuneQuest: chuck in those Water Rune cults, the mermen, a bestiary, ships & sailing & naval combat, seas & oceans & currents etc. from the Guide, the Closing and Opening of the Oceans: why not put the whole kit and kaboodle in one place? Make it an “official” (less-detailed, “canonical,” non-contradictory) supplement to Martin Helsdon’s superb Ships and Shores of Southern Genertela, if you like. (But what do I know, eh?)

[svensson]

24 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

If it was up to me, I’d make this the one-stop Sea Book for RuneQuest: chuck in those Water Rune cults, the mermen, a bestiary, ships & sailing & naval combat, seas & oceans & currents etc. from the Guide, the Closing and Opening of the Oceans: why not put the whole kit and kaboodle in one place? Make it an “official” (less-detailed, “canonical,” non-contradictory) supplement to Martin Helsdon’s superb Ships and Shores of Southern Genertela, if you like. (But what do I know, eh?)

I can't recommend Martin's 'Ships and Shores of Southern Genertela' enough. There have been lots of really good Jonstown Compendium contributions, but 'Ships' is my hands-down favorite. There's a couple of reasons for that, but the important one is that it does a wonderful job of showing us life aboard ship and Water Rune centered society from the personal perspective, including initiation rites, family customs, trade and commerce, etc. There are no cults described however. That might be a wise move on the author's part inasmuch as it reduces the chances of conflicting with an upcoming canon book.

And @Nick Brooke, 'what do you know'? Oh brother, PLEASE... 🤣

[M Helsdon]

15 minutes ago, svensson said:

I can't recommend Martin's 'Ships and Shores of Southern Genertela' enough.

Thank you.

15 minutes ago, svensson said:

There are no cults described however. That might be a wise move on the author's part inasmuch as it reduces the chances of conflicting with an upcoming canon book.

I was fortunate in that I obtained one of the Cults preview books sold at Conventions several years ago on eBay and that helped me - but I didn't want to repeat the material there. 

[svensson]

3 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

Thank you.

I was fortunate in that I obtained one of the Cults preview books sold at Conventions several years ago on eBay and that helped me - but I didn't want to repeat the material there. 

1. Happy to oblige.

2. Previews often get edited, changed, revised, etc. so it was a good decision on your part. What I appreciate is how the practicalities of rituals [awakening the ship's prow, initiation rites, etc.] were described without crossing canon or IP lines. That was a neat bit of writing there.

[metcalph]

If it were up to me, I would also have:

MANTHI - God of the Waters of the World.  Basically Sea version of the Land Goddesses

PHARGON - The Merfolk Ancestors.  Basically Daka Fal (We will have had the Knowing God repeated three times) but with blurbs for Por Janks, Er Gankst etc to get the founders of the Seven Kindreds.

ZOLA FEL  - The Lightbringers Book has two Hunter Gods so another River God isn't going to make me scream.

LORIAN - Which is how we get the Annilla connection.

[M Helsdon]

15 minutes ago, svensson said:

2. Previews often get edited, changed, revised, etc. so it was a good decision on your part. What I appreciate is how the practicalities of rituals [awakening the ship's prow, initiation rites, etc.] were described without crossing canon or IP lines. That was a neat bit of writing there.

The draft gave me a good launching off point. Based on other publications I assumed that details such as awakening a ship spirit or initiating sailors wouldn't be detailed - and such rites would likely vary from place to place. 

[JDM]

36 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

was fortunate in that I obtained one of the Cults preview books sold at Conventions several years ago on eBay and that helped me - but I didn't want to repeat the material there. 

I sold you that Cults preview book, glad it was useful!

[Ynneadwraith]

4 hours ago, svensson said:

I can't recommend Martin's 'Ships and Shores of Southern Genertela' enough. There have been lots of really good Jonstown Compendium contributions, but 'Ships' is my hands-down favorite. There's a couple of reasons for that, but the important one is that it does a wonderful job of showing us life aboard ship and Water Rune centered society from the personal perspective, including initiation rites, family customs, trade and commerce, etc. There are no cults described however. That might be a wise move on the author's part inasmuch as it reduces the chances of conflicting with an upcoming canon book.

And @Nick Brooke, 'what do you know'? Oh brother, PLEASE... 🤣

Now this is what I was hoping for! Something to show that there are cultures in Glorantha that have the water in their bones (and not their non-human fishy ones).

That plus the Water cults books should be a great combination!

[theconfusingeel]

9 hours ago, metcalph said:

If it were up to me, I would also have:

MANTHI - God of the Waters of the World.  Basically Sea version of the Land Goddesses

PHARGON - The Merfolk Ancestors.  Basically Daka Fal (We will have had the Knowing God repeated three times) but with blurbs for Por Janks, Er Gankst etc to get the founders of the Seven Kindreds.

ZOLA FEL  - The Lightbringers Book has two Hunter Gods so another River God isn't going to make me scream.

LORIAN - Which is how we get the Annilla connection.

Aren't the land godess equivalents the sea gods themselves? Like the god of the Sshorg sea is Sshorg, Manthi is king of all sea creatures, not of some place.
plus Lorian is Engizi and he's already included

[metcalph]

9 minutes ago, theconfusingeel said:

plus Lorian is Engizi and he's already included

I get the feeling they are separate gods because the Orlanthi call the constellation by the name of Lorion even though they recognize the Celestial River as Engizi (Guide p650)

[metcalph]

11 minutes ago, theconfusingeel said:

Aren't the land godess equivalents the sea gods themselves? Like the god of the Sshorg sea is Sshorg, Manthi is king of all sea creatures, not of some place.

Manthi and Sshorg are Manthie and different from the Waters of the World (Ocean of Terror, Western Ocean and Homeward Ocean) - Glorantha Sourebook 2nd Ed p85 & p86

[theconfusingeel]

2 hours ago, metcalph said:

I get the feeling they are separate gods because the Orlanthi call the constellation by the name of Lorion even though they recognize the Celestial River as Engizi (Guide p650)

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/prosopaedia/deities/l/lorian/
Lorion is outright called the sky river titan, the same as engizi

1 hour ago, metcalph said:

Manthi and Sshorg are Manthie and different from the Waters of the World (Ocean of Terror, Western Ocean and Homeward Ocean) - Glorantha Sourebook 2nd Ed p85 & p86

"Manthi and Natea have three children, two of whom
rule over the two deep Oceans of the Surface World.
Sshorg is the Prince of the Ocean of Terror, and he has
many descendants of varying power who can command
parts of the sea. "

There are sea gods that rule over different seas and oceans. The geneaology also has sea gods descended from Banthe and Sshorg
edit:
looking at it again, the waters of the world section mentions oceans withc are their own thing. Still these waters are ruled by sea gods, who are probably worshipped in a way similar to land gods.

Edited May 7 by theconfusingeel

[theconfusingeel]

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/catalogue/publishers/chaosium/cults-of-runequest-series/runequest-gods-of-glorantha-previews-2019/
The water cult list was expanded with the major gods that weren't there previously, so I guess those are fully confirmed now.
Brastalos is listed twice thought
edit:it was changed back

Edited May 8 by theconfusingeel