Ducks or Durulz in Glorantha

[drohem]

So there's a big thread over on RPGnet about the dumbest races in RPGs and this created a spin off thread about ducks in Glorantha/RQ.

Personally, I have really got into Glorantha, and, I must admit, it is partly due to the strange chaos beasts. Some of them are just too wacky for me to wrap my mind around. One of them were the ducks.

I think was partly due to the art of back then because they were drawn and portrayed like Donald Duck or Howard the Duck. I didn't like that concept. Personally, my vision of a viable anthropomorphic race would be bipedal and bimanual of humanoid shape.

I have seen some art and minatures which portray the Durulz as more humanoid.

I am interested in the story and history behind the ducks or Durulz now. I thought that the history and reason why ducks were the way they were in Glorantha was still a mystery, but someone posted that they were actually of some island in east of Glorantha and that there were other bird-humanoid speices as well.

So some of the Gloranthaphilies shed some light on this for me please?

Is the form of the ducks of Glorantha like Donald Duck (large duck) or are they more humanoid in form?

Is the history of the duck race actually outlined in Glorantha canon?

Is the duck race actually called Durulz in Glorantha canon?

Are they originally from the East Isles?

Are they a subspecies of the avian race the Keets?

Thanks!

[Trifletraxor]

Is the form of the ducks of Glorantha like Donald Duck (large duck) or are they more humanoid in form?

The old canonical ducks where of the Donald Duckman type.

The Mongoose verison is beaked humans. (BUH!)

Is the history of the duck race actually outlined in Glorantha canon?

They are a cursed race, who got their wings replaced by inferior hands, thereby loosing their flying powers.

Is the duck race actually called Durulz in Glorantha canon?

Yes, that's Greg's newest name for them.

Are they originally from the East Isles?

Are they a subspecies of the avian race the Keets?

Ducks are not originally for the East Isles, but the Keets are. They are basically green ducks.

You should check out DuckPak!

SGL.

[frogspawner]

So there's a big thread over on RPGnet about the dumbest races in RPGs and this created a spin off thread about ducks in Glorantha/RQ.

Why "spin off"? Ducks are clearly the dumbest RPG race, in that sense.

[Trifletraxor]

I love ducks, baboons, newtlings and trollkins. The comic relief they provide helps lighten up the setting, making it more fun.

SGL.

[drohem]

Why "spin off"? Ducks are clearly the dumbest RPG race, in that sense.

Well, they got their own spotlight thread then, LOL!

[Viktor]

I have always viewed them as being sort of the Donald Duck type, but with proper arms and varying in feather patterns and colouring much as ducks do. So not all white, you might get a brown and black duck or one with an emerald head like a mallard. I don't go too far with the duck diversity as there are other avian men, but just a little goes a long way. I kind of view them as feathered, duck faced hobbits with bad attitude. Ducks in my game are very cynical, depressed and angry at life. A lot of discrimination and a genetic curse will do that. 

On the subject of baboons, I once had a Daka Fal/ancestor shaman baboon called Hamadrayas who was adventuring in the Holy Country. Rather fun to play I must say. I was travelling with an Orlanthi sailor, a sorceror and a centaur. Weird bloody party.

[metcalph]

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Is the form of the ducks of Glorantha like Donald Duck (large duck) or are they more humanoid in form?

I think the Ducks look intentionally stupid to such an extent that gloranthans themselves believe they look stupid and despise them for this.

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Is the history of the duck race actually outlined in Glorantha canon?

There's no one history of ducks.  There is a history of the Keets but the history of the Durulz is quite obscure before the Human Resettlement of Dragon Pass - to such an extent there's a theory going around that Delecti made them.

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Is the duck race actually called Durulz in Glorantha canon?

The ducks of Dragon Pass are known as Durulz.  The Ducks of the Eastern Isles are Keets.  There is an extinct species of Duck known as Umbakko.

 

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Are they originally from the East Isles?

It's not known for certain.  The Keets did fight against the Sea God Sshorg who later warred against Genertela.  A duck-like hero called Imarja appears in Esrolia in the Storm Age.  Further west, Zzabur *boils* an invasion of Umbakko ("Beakies") who were accompanying a sea god.  Hence the suggestion is that some of the Ducks sold out to Sshorg and other sea gods and willingly became his toadies in an invasion of Genertela and the West.  While that does not sound like the Keets who are a kind and gentle folk, it does describe the Durulz to a t.  

 

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Are they a subspecies of the avian race the Keets?

They share a common ancestor as far as I know.  

[Joerg]

5 hours ago, metcalph said:

There's no one history of ducks.  There is a history of the Keets but the history of the Durulz is quite obscure before the Human Resettlement of Dragon Pass - to such an extent there's a theory going around that Delecti made them.

I seriously doubt that there were no ducks outside of the Crossline during the Inhuman Occupation, and I suspect that they lived in wetlands of Maniria already in the Dawn Age. ("Was Arkat a Duck?")

Personally, I think that the durulz started out as survivors of the Solkathi attack on Greater Brithos/Danmalastan, displaced keets. That puts their arrival in Maniria into the Storm Age. Only the ducks who were able to swim survived being swept along, other (already flightless) keets drowned. The Beakies weren't allies of the attacking sea, but earlier victims.

 

[soltakss]

Don't forget that Ganderland existed in the GodTime, a mythical homeland for both Durulz and Keets.

I read somewhere that some Ducks of Dragon Pass were brought back by EWF HeroQuestors trying to recreate the GodTime beasts. I don't know whether all Ducks are descended from them or whether there were already Ducks in Dragon Pass. I cannot remember reading about Ducks in the First Age.

[Pentallion]

I disagree with Joerg and Peter.  I don't think the ducks existed at all prior to the Dragonkill.  Neither do I believe Delecti made them.  His zombies ignore ducks as he didn't word the spell so that the zombies would attack them.  Thus the ducks, so long as they don't attack zombies, are pretty much ignored by them.  This tells me ducks could not have existed when he cast the spell.  But supposedly, he would have been surrounded by the little nuisances no?  So it really is too much to believe he simply misworded his all important spell.  He'd obviously known the Dragonkill was coming and had prepared for it in advance.

What's more likely is that the local Orlanthi who lived in close proximity to him either discovered his foreknowledge as well and using God Learner tricks, they managed to change themselves to ducks to avoid the Dragonkill just as Delecti changed himself to undead to avoid it or God Learners did it themselves to an Orlanthi tribe as revenge against Delecti, who had forsaken the God Learners.

The transformation of the Orlanthi required extensive rewriting of their religion such that Humakt became Hueymakt, etc.  This is obvious God Learnerism at work here.  I don't believe they existed prior to that event.  I certainly don't believe Delecti screwed himself over.

[Pentallion]

3 hours ago, soltakss said:

Don't forget that Ganderland existed in the GodTime, a mythical homeland for both Durulz and Keets.

I read somewhere that some Ducks of Dragon Pass were brought back by EWF HeroQuestors trying to recreate the GodTime beasts. I don't know whether all Ducks are descended from them or whether there were already Ducks in Dragon Pass. I cannot remember reading about Ducks in the First Age.

But did Ganderland always exist in the God Time or is that a GL construct?

[Tindalos]

In my Glorantha, Durulz and Keets are simply a case of convergent development. Like the many different origins for people and horses. Sure you could find some ancestral link, both being avian expressions of the man rune, so being children of Grandfather Mortal with various bird goddesses, for example. But they're not close kin.

Of course, IMG ultimately, the Durulz aren't that related to ducks. Their bills have lips, rather than a plate of hardened tissue. They have true teeth rather than serrated edges, solid bones, etc. They're closer to Hadrosaurs than actual birds.

[Patrick]

1 hour ago, Pentallion said:

I disagree with Joerg and Peter.

You're a brave man ;-)

[soltakss]

4 hours ago, Pentallion said:

But did Ganderland always exist in the God Time or is that a GL construct?

Why would the God Learners construct Ganderland of all places?

Most people ignore it, hide its existence or dismiss it as irrelevant.

 

[Pentallion]

6 hours ago, Patrick said:

You're a brave man ;-)

Just crazy

[TRose]

 If I remember the story right.

 The owners of an old and long out of business miniature company called Archive miniatures came up with two  figures called Barbarian Duck and his old lady as a novelty item. This was BEFORE Runequest.

 The  owners of Archive miniatures where friends with Greg Stafford and co and for fun decided to come up with a way to add the Ducks to Glorantha so people could use the minitiarure . I used to own a number of Archive miniatures as they where the original Glorantha  miniatures.

 

[metcalph]

14 hours ago, Pentallion said:

But did Ganderland always exist in the God Time or is that a GL construct?

Ganderland is referred to as Keetela in Revealed Mythologies and that exists outside the Monomyth of the God Learners.  It was sunk by the Togaro and the surviving Keets made their way to the Eastern Isles pursued by the Bezarngay Boil.

[Joerg]

19 hours ago, soltakss said:

I read somewhere that some Ducks of Dragon Pass were brought back by EWF HeroQuestors trying to recreate the GodTime beasts. I don't know whether all Ducks are descended from them or whether there were already Ducks in Dragon Pass.

This works as a rumor, and it is also possible that the Remakers did produce a duck person mark 2 as an experiment. However, as with centaurs, minotaurs and satyrs, such creatures existed before. Maybe some were mislaid.
I might concede the manticore as an original creation by the Remakers. However, note the "Re" in Remakers.

 

The Upland Marsh was created fairly recently - around 1120, probably even after the True Golden Horde arrived in Dragon Pass. It was Delecti's alibi ticket to remain during the Inhuman Occupation. The activities of the Remakers date back a lot earlier - IMO they got their basic material for the pain centaurs from the True Horse Folk around the time of their entry into Prax, possibly by trade with morocanth slavers.

As to the question where the true Beast Folk may have hidden - we know of Hidden Lands in the Quivin region (check the Karandoli section in the Colymar Book of King of Sartar). They surely wouldn't have been willing to live in a zoo and being gawked at.

19 hours ago, soltakss said:

I cannot remember reading about Ducks in the First Age.

Neither can I see anything about Newtlings in the First Age, but we have evidence that they existed in Kethaela as late as the Silver Age. They are a marsh folk that easily escapes attention from people involved in world conquests. From the History of the Heortling Peoples it appears that there were no ducks in Hendrikiland. (I knew there was a good reason to set my game in that region...) The Bottomland Marsh just south of Shadow Plateau may already be different. The river basins of Esrolia and lowland Caladraland may have some, the Zola Fel valley appears to have some.

The durulz are a people living in diaspora, hit by pogroms ever now and then, forced to pack up and hide or move elsewhere. They don't necessarily show up in a census.

 

[metcalph]

37 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Neither can I see anything about Newtlings in the First Age, but we have evidence that they existed in Kethaela as late as the Silver Age.

Not so.  There are 700 Newtlings in the Rightarm Isle settlement of Serid Yarkasa according to the Guide p708.  The best reference to Ducks before the Modern Age is the statement that the Orlanthi have surrounded them since Time began (Guide p107)

37 minutes ago, Joerg said:

 

The Bottomland Marsh just south of Shadow Plateau may already be different.

Bottomland is inhabited by Adult Newtlings (Guide p251).  Little room for Durulz.

 

[Stew Stansfield]

5 hours ago, TRose said:

 If I remember the story right.

 The owners of an old and long out of business miniature company called Archive miniatures came up with two  figures called Barbarian Duck and his old lady as a novelty item. This was BEFORE Runequest.

 The  owners of Archive miniatures where friends with Greg Stafford and co and for fun decided to come up with a way to add the Ducks to Glorantha so people could use the minitiarure . I used to own a number of Archive miniatures as they where the original Glorantha  miniatures.

 

In Greg's own words:

The ducks entered Glorantha because of my fan collaborators when I
published WB&RM. I was publishing the fanzine Wyrd at that time, and
the collaborators were: William Church (ie- Wilmskirk), Steve Swenston
(ie- Swenstown) and Brian Christ*, who owned a comic store in Santa
Rosa, CA. I asked Brian what he wanted his town named, and he said,
"Duckburg."

At that time Disney was suing the pants off the Air Pirates for
copyright infringement of Micky and Donald, and I was concerned that
they might even hunt down and kill such small peanuts as me, so I
changed the name to be Duck Point.

*Brian Crist.

[g33k]

On 5/11/2016 at 11:14 AM, soltakss said:

Why would the God Learners construct Ganderland of all places?

God Learners / GL / Gander Land

QED !  

 

[Jenx]

To be fair, constructing a fictional place in the other world is just the kind of nonsense the God Learners were really into.

It's those pointy hats they wore, I think. Made 'em all loony!

[Joerg]

The GLs did make up a water bird land - the Heron Hegemony. IMO this was caused by a mistaken super-imposition of a map of Dara Happa showing Suvaria in the south-east with the world map, identifying the footstool with the Spike.

There used to be bird creatures in almost all directions - Jarasan the land of birds, Suvaria the Heron Hegemony, Ganderland/Keetela...

 

[styopa]

On 5/12/2016 at 9:11 PM, TRose said:

 If I remember the story right.

 The owners of an old and long out of business miniature company called Archive miniatures came up with two  figures called Barbarian Duck and his old lady as a novelty item. This was BEFORE Runequest.

 The  owners of Archive miniatures where friends with Greg Stafford and co and for fun decided to come up with a way to add the Ducks to Glorantha so people could use the minitiarure . I used to own a number of Archive miniatures as they where the original Glorantha  miniatures.

 

"We got us here the ultimate sort of God Learner, folks.  He don't just say this is all just fanciful makin's up, but that the very EXISTENCE of a race ain't nuthin more than a commercial pat-on-the-back 'tween friends."

"Well, then BURN HIM?"

 

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"Was Arkat a Duck?"

That would explain the pretty-much-permanent bad attitude.

[Michael Hopcroft]

In the Mongoose book on the Ducks, ther common belief seemed to be that everybody hated the Ducks and their utter extermination would have been viewed as a good thing. The only thing preventing an organized campaign to wipe the Ducks off the face of Glorantha was everybody having "more important things to do".

This seems unfair to the Ducks. After all, they fought just as valiantly against Chaos as everyone else, even knowing they would get no thanks for doing so. And as long as you don't get deliberately silly (like quackming everything you say) I can see a Duck PC can be quite viable.