Skill list

[Trifletraxor]

Skill list:

• Athletics
• Craft __________
• Craft __________
• Devise
• Drive/Ride
• First Aid
• Hide
• Influence
• Listen
• Lore __________
• Lore __________
• Lore __________
• Melee combat
• Pilot __________
• Ranged weapons
• Research
• Ride
• Sleight
• Sneak
• Spot
• Streetwise
• Survival
• _____________
• _____________
• _____________
• _____________

[Trifletraxor]

So I've been working to come up with a skill list that is relatively short, but can work for fantasy/historic, present and sci-fi settings. The list above is where I'm at now. Is there any skills you feel is missing from the list? Something that is not covered? Or something else that feel quirky with it?

[olskool]

This is just a vague idea that I've been kicking around.  What if you combined Listen and Spot into a singular Perception Skill.  I'm really not sure about this because I like the idea of Listen and Spot being separate, but Perception could be used for everything (touch, taste, and smell too).  Going the other direction, I might add Smell because certain characters (Trolls?) could have a highly evolved sense of Smell (Werewolves defeating Invisibility with their's comes immediately to mind).

[Sayerson]

Right off the top, I'd say branch 

• Survival - City
• Survival - wilderness 
• Survival - desert 
• etc  

and get rid of streetwise as survival city would cover it

[Mankcam]

For a simple game like what is proposed, I would possibly consider combining as many skills as possible

Eg:

• Spot, Listen  = Perception
• Sneak, Hide = Stealth
• Brawl, Melee, Ranged = Combat
• Sleight, Devise = Manipulation
• Athletics, Dodge = Agility

Then I would possibly allow specialisation bonuses for particular actions within the scope of that broad skill: ie Combat (Swords), Combat (Bows,etc), Agility (Climb), Agility (Dodge), Stealth (Sneak), Stealth (Hide), Manipulation (Lockpick), Manipulation (Pickpocket) etc. 

This way the core skill list remains concise, yet it is flexible to allow some focus in particular areas. It also makes every skill consistent with how the knowledge skills work ie: Language (German), Lore (Archaeology), Survival (Desert), etc

I would probably introduce an Etiquette skill, and get rid of the Streetwise skill. Streetwise could be covered by Survival and Etiquette, depending upon what the needs are. For example, Survival (Urban) should cover some things, and Etiquette (Streetwise) could cover others. Other specialisations of Etiquette could be Etiquette (High Society) or Etiquette (Corporate Workplace), for instance (just spit-balling ideas now...)

As usual, some skills would not be able to be rolled without a specialisation (such as the knowledge skills, etc). 

The trick would be not to allow for too many specialisations, otherwise it defeats the purpose of having a concise skill list.

Just an idea.

 

Edited June 4, 2017 by Mankcam

[Trifletraxor]

3 hours ago, Mankcam said:

For a simple game like D100rules is described to be, I would possibly consider combining as many skills as possible

Eg:

• Spot, Listen  = Perception
• Sneak, Hide = Stealth
• Brawl, Melee, Ranged = Combat
• Sleight, Devise = Manipulation
• Athletics, Dodge = Agility

Then I would possibly allow specialisation bonuses for particular actions within the scope of that broad skill: ie Combat (Swords), Combat (Bows,etc), Agility (Climb), Agility (Dodge), Stealth (Sneak), Stealth (Hide), Manipulation (Lockpick), Manipulation (Pickpocket) etc. 

This way the core skill list remains concise, yet it is flexible to allow some focus in particular areas. It also makes every skill consistent with how the knowledge skills work ie: Language (German), Lore (Archaeology), Survival (Desert), etc

I've tried this once before, 6 main broad skills, with possibility for 2 specializations within each. I liked the idea, because it allows for quick generation of NPCs and a more personalized skill list for the PCs, but my players didn't like it. They felt the broad skill got too general, that they had too few skills overall and during play they missed specialized skills that they hadn't chosen.

But brawl and Melee could be combined into a close combat skill, as they're quite similar. I think I'll go with that.

[Trifletraxor]

8 hours ago, olskool said:

This is just a vague idea that I've been kicking around.  What if you combined Listen and Spot into a singular Perception Skill.  I'm really not sure about this because I like the idea of Listen and Spot being separate, but Perception could be used for everything (touch, taste, and smell too).  Going the other direction, I might add Smell because certain characters (Trolls?) could have a highly evolved sense of Smell (Werewolves defeating Invisibility with their's comes immediately to mind).

I've tried to combine skills that rarely get used, for example climb, swim and throw into an athletics skill. Listen and Spot gets rolled almost every session, so they're both in good use. Smell, Taste or Sense/feel could be added as one of the 4 individual added skills at the end, but I don't feel it would be in that much use if you're not. f.ex. a werewolf or a troll.

[Trifletraxor]

The skills I'm most dissatisfied with on the list is Ride, Drive and Pilot - all the skills can work for all settings - for fantasy drive can be drive cart or wagon and pilot can be pilot boat or hippogriff - but drive and pilot will be seldom used in a fantasy setting, ride and pilot rarely used in a present setting and ride seldom used in a sci-fi setting. I've been looking for a skill that could be all three and then specified, or one that at least covered both ride and drive - but have troubles coming up with candidates. 

I feel ride is necessary for fantasy/historic, drive for present and drive and possibly pilot for sci-fi, but all three bloat the skill list with some skills that will go unused. Pilot could possibly be considered a craft, as all sci-fi characters won't necessarily have the skill.

Any suggestions for a word covering ride and drive, drive and pilot or all three would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Sayerson]

Operate may work for drive and pilot but I believe there are only so many skill names you can multipurpose like that.

For example - Athletics, covering most physical exertion skills, doesn't necessarily stretch well to include a Swim skill. (Generally, one can jump, climb and run through an obstacle course but why should that imply that a character could survive crossing a raging river or even a lengthy floatation on a body of water?)

When we did this with some of our house games, we found that specific skill lists supported different genres easier than one general list for all. Maybe discuss with your players to see what they would settle for. 

Additionally, your list could use a Communications or Language skill. 

Edited June 3, 2017 by Sayerson
Additional

[Mankcam]

Could potentially be covered by a Knowledge skill perhaps

ie: Knowledge (Horsemanship), Knowledge (Drive Automobile); Knowledge (Pilot Aircraft) etc

 

Edited June 4, 2017 by Mankcam

[Trifletraxor]

8 hours ago, Sayerson said:

Operate may work for drive and pilot but I believe there are only so many skill names you can multipurpose like that.

For example - Athletics, covering most physical exertion skills, doesn't necessarily stretch well to include a Swim skill. (Generally, one can jump, climb and run through an obstacle course but why should that imply that a character could survive crossing a raging river or even a lengthy floatation on a body of water?)

Climb and Swim is different skills. In my initial list I had no Athletics skill, only Climb and Swim. Run, Throw and Jump is better handled as stat rolls in my opinion, but Climb and Swim is clearly skills. They rarely increase much from the time of character generation, which is why I thought to combine them, but you make a good point.

 

Quote

When we did this with some of our house games, we found that specific skill lists supported different genres easier than one general list for all. Maybe discuss with your players to see what they would settle for. 

Additionally, your list could use a Communications or Language skill. 

Specific skill list for different genres are without doubt the easiest way to do it, but if I was able to get a working unified list than that would be better I think. I struggled somewhat with mechanics, electrical and computer skills for a while, but have landed on using devise for easy mechanical and electrical work and research for computer use, while a craft mechanic, craft electrician or lore computers would be needed for more advanced use.

Influence is the general communication skill in the list, other communication skills like fast talk, orate, boast, sing, seduce, flirt, intimidate, command, charm, bribe, converse, persuade, etc. can be added as one of the 4 chosen skills at the end. I've dropped languages as percentage skills as I don't think they work good as such, instead language level will be listed as basic (B), advanced (A) or native (N). Everyone starts with one language at native level and can buy levels in other languages at char-gen for 25% per level, or gain proficiency in new languages during gameplay.

Edited June 4, 2017 by Trifletraxor
Corrected a typo

[Trifletraxor]

6 hours ago, Mankcam said:

Could potentially be covered by a Knowledge skill perhaps

ie: Knowledge (Horsemanship), Knowledge (Drive Automobile); Knowledge (Pilot Aircraft) etc

That's a good idea. I might just add another Craft slot. I'll playtest it and see what works best.

[Sayerson]

"devise for easy mechanical and electrical work and research for computer use, while a craft mechanic, craft electrician or lore computers would be needed for more advanced use."

That would work nicely. And good point on languages.

[soltakss]

Revolution D100 has an elegant way of doing this.

You have core skills and than gain traits. So, you might have Stealth as a core skill but have the Traits of Move Quietly, Hide in Cover or Forest, giving you a bonus to your Stealth if you are trying to Move Silently or Hide in Cover, with a double bonus if doing so in a Forest. It works really well and immediately removes the need for multiple skill trees for different genres.

 

Edited June 4, 2017 by soltakss

[Mankcam]

Yes RD100 certainly does skill specialities rather well

[olskool]

On 6/3/2017 at 2:04 AM, Mankcam said:

For a simple game like what is proposed, I would possibly consider combining as many skills as possible

Eg:

• Spot, Listen  = Perception
• Sneak, Hide = Stealth
• Brawl, Melee, Ranged = Combat
• Sleight, Devise = Manipulation
• Athletics, Dodge = Agility

Then I would possibly allow specialisation bonuses for particular actions within the scope of that broad skill: ie Combat (Swords), Combat (Bows,etc), Agility (Climb), Agility (Dodge), Stealth (Sneak), Stealth (Hide), Manipulation (Lockpick), Manipulation (Pickpocket) etc. 

This way the core skill list remains concise, yet it is flexible to allow some focus in particular areas. It also makes every skill consistent with how the knowledge skills work ie: Language (German), Lore (Archaeology), Survival (Desert), etc

I would probably introduce an Etiquette skill, and get rid of the Streetwise skill. Streetwise could be covered by Survival and Etiquette, depending upon what the needs are. For example, Survival (Urban) should cover some things, and Etiquette (Streetwise) could cover others. Other specialisations of Etiquette could be Etiquette (High Society) or Etiquette (Corporate Workplace), for instance (just spit-balling ideas now...)

As usual, some skills would not be able to be rolled without a specialisation (such as the knowledge skills, etc). 

The trick would be not to allow for too many specialisations, otherwise it defeats the purpose of having a concise skill list.

Just an idea.

 

Games Studio 93 had a novel way of addressing Skill Specializations in Twilight 2013.  In addition to the basic Skill, a player could buy a Qualification to that Skill.  Essentially, a Qualification was a "Skill within a Skill."  A basic example would be the Medical Profession.  All Surgeons are Doctors, BUT, not all Doctors are Surgeons.  Thus players could buy a Surgical Qualification for their Medical Skill.  Other examples would include things like... EOD Qualification for Demolitions, Rebreather Qualification for Diving/Scuba, Multi-engine Heavy Qualification for Pilot (with most character pilots only qualified to fly single engined planes like Cessnas), and Hacking Qualification for Computer Science or Computer Operation.  The rules for a Qualification were pretty basic;

1) The Qualification must be bought just like the more general "Parent Skill."

2) The Qualification could never exceed the "Parent Skill's" rating.

3) Using a Qualification generated experience for BOTH the Qualification AND the "Parent Skill." Using the "Parent Skill" alone generates experience for ONLY the "Parent Skill."

4) A player may ask for the inclusion of a Qualification IF the GM agree's to it and the definition of what it would cover during play.  Under this rule, new Qualifications can be added at will... giving an infinite "Skill List" with only a few "Base Skills" to cover most general activities.  

This system was both "open-ended" and could be very "detailed" if enough Qualifications were added.

 

[Mankcam]

Something like that could work as well, its a good way to go.

I always liked the ammount of skills available in BRP, but never saw the point with listing all of them on the character sheet.

Not only does it make a sheet look unnecessarily cluttered, it also makes it harder at a glance to see what your character is good at.

A character sheet in which the most profficient skills are more obvious tends to help form a sharper mental image of the character.

In many ways I would prefer if the RQ/BRP Skill Categories were actal base skills which get regular use, with a few bonus specialities within each category.

RD100 kinda goes along those lines, and these rules may be good to consider likewise, perhaps with an even smaller list for the sake of simplicity.

 

Edited June 5, 2017 by Mankcam

[Trifletraxor]

I'll take a closer look at R100 to see how they make it work. Currently I've merged the Drive and Ride skill into a Drive/Ride skill - Drive wagon and ride horse or other mount for historic/fantasy settings, Drive automobile or other motor vehicle and ride motorcycle for near historic/current/future settings. I'm also keeping the pilot skill - which can be specified for boat, flying beast, airplane, helicopter or spacecraft. I'm also currently keeping the Athletics skill as one skill, limited to a max skill of STR or DEX x5. I'll playtest this for some time and see how it works.

[Darius West]

On 6/3/2017 at 7:31 AM, Trifletraxor said:

Skill list:

• Survival

Arguably every skill derives from the Survival skill.  Who wants to argue with Charles Darwin? 😎🙈🙉🙊

[Bill the barbarian]

Now this is what I call Necromancy Fu!

Edited November 8, 2022 by Bill the barbarian

[DreadDomain]

On 11/8/2022 at 12:57 AM, Bill the barbarian said:

Necromancy Fu!

This deserves a place in the skill list!

[Chaot]

I know this is a very old thread, but here's what I have going right now.

Acrobatics
Athletics
Art

Craft

Evaluate
Fast Talk
Folk Lore
Handle Animal
Insight
Natural World
Persuade
Physik
Scribe
Search
Skulduggery
Stealth

Then I add in specific skills.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Chaot

[Questbird]

On 4/15/2023 at 9:47 AM, Chaot said:

I know this is a very old thread, but here's what I have going right now.

Acrobatics
Athletics
Art

Craft

Evaluate
Fast Talk
Folk Lore
Handle Animal
Insight
Natural World
Persuade
Physik
Scribe
Search
Skulduggery
Stealth

Then I add in specific skills.

 

What's the difference between Skulduggery and Stealth?

[SDLeary]

8 hours ago, Questbird said:

What's the difference between Skulduggery and Stealth?

Skulduggery is behavior and activities (grifting for instance).

SDLeary

[Mugen]

On 4/15/2023 at 1:47 AM, Chaot said:

Fast Talk

(...)

Persuade

In think we already discussed this topic, but if a game has 2 social skills, I prefer that one is aimed at convincing or trick one person or a very small group ("Persuasion"), and the second is aimed at larger audiences ("Eloquence").