100+ in a combat skill

[Shiningbrow]

On 1/1/2020 at 7:27 AM, JustAnotherVingan said:

Something I'd been wondering this evening. How good are those in a Sword or Axe Trance at accepting surrenders? Granted it isn't Berserk but the Humakti or Gorite is totally focused on their weapon and combat. If an opponent drops their weapon and falls to the ground wailing I yield, I yield I think the Humakti would decide they are no longer a threat and ignore them but what if they back off in a defensive stance and say I yield?

I think this would be a good way to bring Humaktis back to earth (slight pun intended).

The first time they Trance against a non-chaotic enemy, and a yield is called, they have to firstly roll Listen checks (modified down for a - in battle, b - in Trance), then Opposed Passions (again modified, because the Hate Lunars is,already in battle,, and has possibly wounded/killed someone). Also, Humakt is *the* death bringer, not the mercy-giver. (Obviously, roll against Honour).

The upshot is - if Humakti go on Tranced killing sprees, then the long term consequences can be terrible. "There was a terrible misunderstanding, and YOU killed the emissary and all their guards while in Trance, *after* they yielded". 

Exile? Execution? Reprisals? Give up all your gear as weregild? Dishonor to the clan/tribe/family (which may be irrelevant, depending on how much you play the separation aspect).

Other than the seriously increased chance of dying early, there's a really good reason not many join Humakt, or for their lack of popularity in civilised society.

[French Desperate WindChild]

7 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Exile? Execution? Reprisals? Give up all your gear as weregild? Dishonor to the clan/tribe/family (which may be irrelevant, depending on how much you play the separation aspect).

At least, honor passion lost for the humakti. They must not kill from my opinion (but they did)

[JustAnotherVingan]

On ‎1‎/‎15‎/‎2020 at 5:16 AM, Shiningbrow said:

I think this would be a good way to bring Humaktis back to earth (slight pun intended).

The first time they Trance against a non-chaotic enemy, and a yield is called, they have to firstly roll Listen checks (modified down for a - in battle, b - in Trance), then Opposed Passions (again modified, because the Hate Lunars is,already in battle,, and has possibly wounded/killed someone). Also, Humakt is *the* death bringer, not the mercy-giver. (Obviously, roll against Honour).

The upshot is - if Humakti go on Tranced killing sprees, then the long term consequences can be terrible. "There was a terrible misunderstanding, and YOU killed the emissary and all their guards while in Trance, *after* they yielded". 

Exile? Execution? Reprisals? Give up all your gear as weregild? Dishonor to the clan/tribe/family (which may be irrelevant, depending on how much you play the separation aspect).

Other than the seriously increased chance of dying early, there's a really good reason not many join Humakt, or for their lack of popularity in civilised society.

I think i'd make it an INTX5 roll or an Honour roll but yes I agree, the Humakti in trance has none of the normal human perceptions. I'd allow them to distinguish between friend and foe but they have trouble telling between active foe and no longer dangerous foe. That makes them different from berserkers like Storm Bull who have trouble distinguishing between friend and foe but can tell how dangerous  someone else on the battlefield is.

[Akhôrahil]

On 1/15/2020 at 1:56 PM, French Desperate WindChild said:

At least, honor passion lost for the humakti. They must not kill from my opinion (but they did)

This must be a huge Honor problem for Storm Bulls - killing someone dishonorably while berserking still counts, I'm sure. Even though it's not your fault that Chalana Arroy priestess got in your way and failed her roll to calm you down...

[French Desperate WindChild]

On 1/17/2020 at 11:25 AM, Akhôrahil said:

This must be a huge Honor problem for Storm Bulls - killing someone dishonorably while berserking still counts, I'm sure.

Storm Bull doesn't seem to be honorable, just violent. At least in the rule, no honor as favorite passion. From my perspective, Storm Bull expects his followers to destroy chaos, nothing else. Destroy the big cacodemon, destroy the little baby, don't care, Chaos is Chaos.

And killing a friend/healer because the cultist was under berserk stance, well it is just an accident, maybe a usefull sacrifice to destroy Chaos.

 

 

[g33k]

On 1/16/2020 at 6:05 PM, JustAnotherVingan said:

... I'd allow them to distinguish between friend and foe but they have trouble telling between active foe and no longer dangerous foe...

IMHO they go almost purely on a question of "is this person bearing arms against me?"  Fighting engages the Sword Trance.

A foe who is purely fighting defensively is still fighting, no matter that they're screaming "trying to YIELD here, you bastard!"

A foe who has tossed aside their weapons and knelt down isn't fighting; not even if they say "I shall probably kill you tomorrow."

I think this is my own interpretation, not "official."  YGMV.

[Jusmak]

I became wondering this parry thing. If you get your parry skill by any means huge, it becomes quite hard to logically explain certain fights. For example duck sized 6, having any stick or paddle, which can be used as parrying weapon fights oversized opponent for example size 50, but low attack%. I do not think any amount of skill can overcome brute stength and mass, when there is no need to attack, but sit on you. ... I have tried to wrestle big guyis, and sometimes they are just too big.

How you do it? I saw thoughts, that rules over 100%, would not be used in parries, but attack only. That would work. Then I think seeing some old table, where was given modifiers according to size. It was mostly like, it is easier to hit bigger targets, but I think same kind of idea could be used. Size nullifies parry, for example 10 size units difference prevents using over 100 skill rules. I think dodge or jumping away is only logical solution to avoid hit by a very large moster. And do we need over 100 skill rules to decrease opponents skills? I have just played two solos.

Even it is RAW, I think not to use decrease option allowed. There is already demoralize, shimmer. It may be so, that rule is more to do with scaling, but how someone actually can affect otherone's skill logically other than by magic? Throwing sand to eyes and other dirty tricks? Could over 100 skill decreases be explained only by dirty fighting, does honorable orlanthi do that?

[Akhôrahil]

15 minutes ago, Jusmak said:

I became wondering this parry thing. If you get your parry skill by any means huge, it becomes quite hard to logically explain certain fights. For example duck sized 6, having any stick or paddle, which can be used as parrying weapon fights oversized opponent for example size 50, but low attack%. I do not think any amount of skill can overcome brute stength and mass, when there is no need to attack, but sit on you. ... I have tried to wrestle big guyis, and sometimes they are just too big.

Partially, this can  be simulated with Knockbacks - that duck isn't likely to stand up against those, so it's a useful tactic.

[Lordabdul]

4 hours ago, Jusmak said:

How you do it?

I wrote a few thoughts about this earlier in the thread (see this post), including some house rule proposals. Note that I think that rules for fighting someone much bigger than you shouldn't have anything to do with whether your skill is above 100% or not -- it should be just a bunch of penalties and bonuses regardless of scores.

Edited January 27, 2020 by lordabdul

[Shiningbrow]

8 hours ago, Jusmak said:

Even it is RAW, I think not to use decrease option allowed. There is already demoralize, shimmer. It may be so, that rule is more to do with scaling, but how someone actually can affect otherone's skill logically other than by magic? Throwing sand to eyes and other dirty tricks? Could over 100 skill decreases be explained only by dirty fighting, does honorable orlanthi do that?

Because it's not one single attack. It's the culmination of what goes on over that period of time.

So, it includes movement, feints, deception, trickery opening up gaps in the other person's defences, intimidation (keep your weapons pointed at their eyes!), etc.

It's also the ability to anticipate she your opponent is going to do, and responding to that. As well as making your opponent do something to your advantage.

Q: are Olympic fencers (and other athletes at that level) at only 100%? Or are they higher???

[Rob Darvall]

1 hour ago, Shiningbrow said:

Q: are Olympic fencers (and other athletes at that level) at only 100%? Or are they higher???

Based on my experience of fencing one (and he well past his prime) they're well over. They can make a lesser fencer (me) put their sword wherever they want, openning up any line of attack they choose.

[Shiningbrow]

45 minutes ago, Rob Darvall said:

Based on my experience of fencing one (and he well past his prime) they're well over. They can make a lesser fencer (me) put their sword wherever they want, openning up any line of attack they choose.

Ooohhhh yeahhhhhh.... 

[Mugen]

2 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

.Q: are Olympic fencers (and other athletes at that level) at only 100%? Or are they higher???

I think anyone with a world-class skill has way more than 100%, whatever his field of experience is.

[PhilHibbs]

17 hours ago, Jusmak said:

I became wondering this parry thing. If you get your parry skill by any means huge, it becomes quite hard to logically explain certain fights. For example duck sized 6, having any stick or paddle, which can be used as parrying weapon fights oversized opponent for example size 50, but low attack%. I do not think any amount of skill can overcome brute stength and mass, when there is no need to attack, but sit on you.

That duck's parrying weapon or shield isn't going to last very long if they do get a hit in. Also I agree with the other statements that "parry" isn't just a question of put-the-stick-in-the-way-and-pray.

Edited January 27, 2020 by PhilHibbs

[Akhôrahil]

10 hours ago, Mugen said:

I think anyone with a world-class skill has way more than 100%, whatever his field of experience is.

Definitely. Any high-level competitor will have over 100%. Best in the world, way beyond that.

100% is mastery. There’s a lot of room at the top above that. 100% grappling might be BJJ black belt. The champ has a lot more.

Edited January 27, 2020 by Akhôrahil

[Jusmak]

On 1/27/2020 at 7:16 AM, Shiningbrow said:

Because it's not one single attack. It's the culmination of what goes on over that period of time.

So, it includes movement, feints, deception, trickery opening up gaps in the other person's defences, intimidation (keep your weapons pointed at their eyes!), etc.

It's also the ability to anticipate she your opponent is going to do, and responding to that. As well as making your opponent do something to your advantage.

Q: are Olympic fencers (and other athletes at that level) at only 100%? Or are they higher???

Well, feints do work against same size fencers. My problems was more to do with huge size difference. I think it is a bit similar, if you try to parry charging rhino, mastodon or building falling over you. I do not think any of those would see that little stick or shield in your hand any way threatening and so to be effectively used for intimadation, feint or covering.

Was it in Mythras maybe, where charge would give penalty to parry? Maybe that is my way to go here. Opponent twice your size makes you parry at half skill and so on. Or maybe it is better do that by 10 size units steps over other. 

Was there a knockback rule in new ruleset other than intentional knockback? A bit more situational modifiers would not harm either.

Edited January 28, 2020 by Jusmak

[French Desperate WindChild]

there is parade and there is dodge

I cannot imagine too that with a sword you can do anything against a 10 meters tree or a rhino

You may succeed to dodge the tree

but are you able to dodge the sun falling on you ?

[Atgxtg]

On 1/13/2020 at 9:11 AM, French Desperate WindChild said:

and and and why it is the same SR to load a new missile ? hu ? hu ?

I believe it's because it is combined in with the shooting. In the old days they used to just write this as Bow SR 2/9 the idea being that the character not only aims and fires a little faster but also reloads a little faster.So a character would shoot at DEX SR then 2xDEX SR+5

 

[PhilHibbs]

5 hours ago, Jusmak said:

Well, feints do work against same size fencers. My problems was more to do with huge size difference. I think it is a bit similar, if you try to parry charging rhino, mastodon or building falling over you.

Yes, good point.

[Shiningbrow]

7 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

there is parade and there is dodge

I cannot imagine too that with a sword you can do anything against a 10 meters tree or a rhino

You may succeed to dodge the tree

but are you able to dodge the sun falling on you ?

I suppose it depends on whether you only see a parry as sticking something in front of the attack, or whether it's moving to the side and deflecting...

[Akhôrahil]

4 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

I suppose it depends on whether you only see a parry as sticking something in front of the attack, or whether it's moving to the side and deflecting...

Either way, it's really hard to imagine how you even begin to parry a charging Triceratops with your dagger.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Akhôrahil

[Shiningbrow]

6 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Either way, it's really hard to imagine how you even begin to parry a charging Triceratops with your dagger.

MGF???😃

[Jusmak]

8 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Either way, it's really hard to imagine how you even begin to parry a charging Triceratops with your dagger.

What would be dodge for, if not sidestepping? Because game rules have separate dodge and parry I do see parrying weapon more to do with weapon handling and dodge to be more involved with footwork, exactly how to evade hits. If giant slams with a tree normal size man, who parries at 300 % skill against giants 66 % attack end result is hard to explain logically by rules, if you have dodge but do not need to ever use it. Also I did not see any knockback as effect from previous editions, if damage is greater than your size, it would be automatic knockback and fall against DEX x 5. Is it somewhere, or just good idea to houserule it in? To me it is very much same, if you had not any weapon but tried to wrestle that charging triceratops. While in this edition there is separate dodge skill, you do not need it, if you have good enough parry. So doing unarmed parry with very high skill leads me actually confused... you actually CAN wrestle charging HUGE THING, while it has only 5 % chance to hit you. 

So this challenge to imagine.... You are standing at motorway and a truck is going to drive over you. You won't do any evasive movements as sidestepping, but instead draw your steel and hold firmly your ground, confident to pick all damage with your weapon. You try to put your sword someway between to deflect that truck... ...and you actually SUCCEED! I do not understand how, but you do. You are standing right there where you were without need to do any steps or jump to safety. You can do same thing with any object in your hand or without, just parrying with your fist. If you had a headbutt attack, you could even parry with your head that incoming HUGE THING.

[Akhôrahil]

3 minutes ago, Jusmak said:

You try to put your sword someway between to deflect that truck... ...and you actually SUCCEED!

"The HeroWars are here, and all things are possible."

[Joerg]

5 minutes ago, Jusmak said:

So this challenge to imagine.... You are standing at motorway and a truck is going to drive over you. You won't do any evasive movements as sidestepping, but instead draw your steel and hold firmly your ground, confident to pick all damage with your weapon. You try to put your sword someway between to deflect that truck... ...and you actually SUCCEED! I do not understand how, but you do. You are standing right there where you were without need to do any steps or jump to safety. You can do same thing with any object in your hand or without, just parrying with your fist. If you had a headbutt attack, you could even parry with your head that incoming HUGE THING.

Congratulations! Your parry succeeds, and the dagger absorbs 8 of the 115 points of incoming damage. You may check your dagger skill, and apply for resurrection.