Your Dumbest Theory

[davecake]

6 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

honestly the Three Bean Circus is somehow the queerest part of Glorantha, even though I have no idea why

While it is played for light humour, I've definitely enjoyed their appearance in Sandheart. While a throwaway joke, they've proved far too much fun for my Sandheart game, and there are many references to the 'three beans' (the party are united in approval of the first and second beans, but divided over the third. 

[mfbrandi]

7 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

honestly the Three Bean Circus is somehow the queerest part of Glorantha, even though I have no idea why

Larry Marder knows something he’s not telling us.

Spoiler

[scott-martin]

I still like this, even though it's vanishingly low on the list of things to do.

[Eff]

The creation of the Orlanth Rex cult was a necessary but not sufficient precondition for the emergence of the Red Goddess. 

[mfbrandi]

13 minutes ago, Eff said:

The creation of the Orlanth Rex cult

@scott-martin’s image set me up to read that as “the creation of the Orlanth Rex cat” — something as plausible as it is sickening.

Spoiler

[davecake]

In a thread about Flintnail and Pavis:

On 12/5/2022 at 8:43 PM, mfbrandi said:

Yes, and basically, the dwarfs are the Brithini:

I have a personal theory that the Revelations of Now, the rules that Zzabur created that set the rules for the Brithini that made them unaging and set caste law, are not just a set of rules for social behaviour but a giant spell to make the original Malkioni of Danmalastan into imitations of the Dwarves, with the strict caste lifestyle acting like a great lifelong ritual to maintain it (in both cases). As usual for Zzabur, there is a fair bit of hubris and misunderstanding (Zzabur is perfect intellect, but misunderstands the significance of emotion, instinct, and the condition of mortality, among other things). He sees mortality as Error, and attempts to eliminate it from his people, and he sees all other sources of knowledge than his own way as sources of Error, so puts those like himself in charge (rather than the dwarf path of all castes being equal). But one of his several mistakes is to greatly misunderstand individuality (he predates it!), and so his rigid rules of right behaviour are also used by the Vadeli who follow its specifics but reject its intent, and everything goes wrong. The Vadeli being living evidence of Zzabur's mistake is why he hates them so much (most other he regards with condescension and pity, not hate). The Mostali also have difficulty dealing with individuality within their philosophy, and ultimately for similar reasons, but its far worse for the Brithini, as Zzabur introduced the idea of hierarchy, and also confronting and correcting Error, so making their society less stable. 

The modern Malkioni don't accept either the idea that its a specific spell and an attempt to change who the Brithini are, or that its inspired by the (obviously false) Mostali way, and concentrate on the idea of Zzabur as rational (if not moral) exemplar, treating caste law as just a set of rules for right behaviour (though somewhat outdated ones to the Hrestoli). 

I also like the corollary to this theory, which is that the Rokari in particular have no idea what they are doing, and so are ultimately doomed to failure. 

(from this general perspective, Nysalor as born after the Great Darkness does understand the nature of individuality, but as a god not mortality, so gets things very wrong as well, Arkat has enough insight to begin to truly understand both, as does the Red Goddess, who invents an entirely different scheme for overcoming the limits of mortality, by creating a world of Glamour that has different rules. )

[mfbrandi]

2 hours ago, davecake said:

Zzabur is perfect intellect, but misunderstands the significance of … mortality

It is weird, though: clearly, we are supposed to despise the dwarves and the Brithini for their fight against mortality/death, but the theistic peoples seem to be guilty of worse — “after death, we will dwell in Orlanth’s stead” and the like.

“Proper” death is being chucked down the throat of Kajabor (or functional equivalent) — you were here; now you are gone; perhaps you never were — everything else is just upping sticks and moving underground. Moving house is stressful. It is not dying. Death — not separation, but extinction — is still waiting for you.

So perhaps Zzabur and the Mostali have it right, after all: after death — true death — one just won’t get any work done, and there are still things to do.

True and final death comes for everyone, eventually — “mortals” and “gods” alike — and if some people cling a little too hard to life after having peeked over into the void, we should have some compassion for them. They know that they will have to go sometime and that their lifestyle means that they may not go easily.

When is the optimal time to be touched by Rashoran?

[soltakss]

11 hours ago, davecake said:

In a thread about Flintnail and Pavis:

On 12/5/2022 at 12:43 PM, mfbrandi said:

Yes, and basically, the dwarfs are the Brithini:

What stunted their growth? Too much smoking or self abuse?

[mfbrandi]

15 minutes ago, soltakss said:

What stunted their growth? Too much smoking or self abuse?

If you want to know why the dwarfs are shorter than the Brithini, then malnutrition:

10 hours ago, radmonger said:

Perhaps more useful is the terminology used by the Mostali:

• working: functions according to its nature without requiring energy inputs
• malfunctioning: requires regular energy inputs from an external source

The more you eat, the more you say “look at me — I am malfunctioning.”

The Brithini are much bigger, but still small:

Quote

Westerners tend to be smaller and slighter than Orlanthi or Hsunchen. Those directly descended from the ancient Brithini average around 5 feet tall — GtG, p. 48

Why in-world? I have no idea. Going meta: they are physically stunted to reflect their supposed psychological/spiritual stuntedness — how absolutely charming. (Next thing we’ll have beastmen who rub shit in their hair and indulge in “unnatural” sexual practices to indicate the depths of their depravity — oh, wait …)

(Why does the setting have dwarves and Brithini? I have a paranoid “theory”, but I don’t want rocks thrown at me, so I am keeping it to myself.)

[SDLeary]

8 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

(Why does the setting have dwarves and Brithini? I have a Paranoia “theory”, but I don’t want rocks thrown at me, so I am keeping it to myself.)

Fixed that for you...

Brithini are the Managers, and dwarves are the workers!

SDLeary

[John Biles]

10 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

(Why does the setting have dwarves and Brithini? I have a paranoid “theory”, but I don’t want rocks thrown at me, so I am keeping it to myself.)

Mostali live to fix the World Machine and the Brrithini live in order to live more.

 

[radmonger]

Enhance SIZ is just one of the many ritual sorcery spells cast in preparation for each Brithini birth.

And Zzabur is something very similar to a silver True Mostali;  older than most gods, and, in HIs opinion, considerably smarter. But still bound to serve them.  Think Jeeves to Bertie Wooster (i.e. Malkion). Except Bertie goes on to die pointlessly in the War, and everyone thinks he's a hero.

Like other True Mostali, he stopped serving the gods once they broke the world. But he is not going to cooperate with the other servitors to restore it. Instead, he strives to makes plans that are robust to everyone else being selfish idiots.

He is particularly proud of the way he got land dwellers to contribute a tithe towards the restoration of the oceans. If for some reason he considered you a peer he would tell you a hilarious story about it. The expression on the sailor's faces when they were eaten by monsters, and how exactly he arranged for that mural to be on the floor of a warehouse...

 

[Joerg]

14 hours ago, soltakss said:

What stunted their growth? Too much smoking or self abuse?

Ancestral tapping? Note that Zzaburi are supposed to be tall (if somewhat skeletous).

The culprits may have been Vadeli, who ruled most of the Malkioni world after the Double Belligerent Assault.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Joerg

[Eff]

19 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

(Why does the setting have dwarves and Brithini? I have a paranoid “theory”, but I don’t want rocks thrown at me, so I am keeping it to myself.)

Let's go metatextual for a moment. These two groups represent different things. The original Brithini are part of the Arkat-Hrestol stories, and there they serve related functions- Arkat's spiritual journey begins with his departure from the Brithini, and Hrestol speaks against the Brithini and offers a mystical understanding of their religion. The Brithini, who believe in eternal life if you remain obedient to a set of rigid laws and never step outside them or inquire beyond them, are a fantasy representation of American mainline Protestant Christianity in the 20th century, exaggerated to the point where they don't really believe in God. Arkat's journey is thus from spiritually dead Christianity to mystical and spiritual Christianity to paganism, but he finds enlightenment and peace when he integrates all of them together. 

(Pause for a moment and note that Greg Stafford called himself an Arkati and also had a personal journey from what I am told was a fairly repressed upbringing to a wild, earthy pagan life.) 

Mostali, to contrast, are simply a representation of mechanization and the act of making and manufacturing, with, like their counterpart elves and trolls, strong potential to run amok. Because of these metaphors, the Brithini and other Malkioni have a difficult relationship with the dwarves, one which goes back and forth, because of the neopagan perspective that Christianity robs the world of spiritual life and renders it dead matter, but also the recognition that Christianity, too, is suspicious of mechanization and the mechanical world. 

Oh, right, this is the dumb theory thread. So here's my dumb theory: Brithini temples to the Invisible God are made very simply, with barely any internal decoration, with sides made of clapboarded wood, covered with a simple coat of whitewash and little else. There are potlucks twice per season. 

Edited February 16, 2023 by Eff

[Qizilbashwoman]

9 minutes ago, Eff said:

There are potlucks twice per season. 

all the potlucks serve are bizarre ritual meals such as "funeral potatoes" (for Brits: this unholy Midwestern creation of potato chunks mixed with Cream of Something Unhealthy soup and topped with sour cream and corn flakes is associated with the Mormons)

[Eff]

6 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

all the potlucks serve are bizarre ritual meals such as "funeral potatoes" (for Brits: this unholy Midwestern creation of potato chunks mixed with Cream of Something Unhealthy soup and topped with sour cream and corn flakes is associated with the Mormons)

Brithini never eat green beans outside of a casserole covered with breaded and fried bits of onion. 

[Ali the Helering]

2 hours ago, Eff said:

Brithini never eat green beans outside of a casserole covered with breaded and fried bits of onion. 

This strikes me as ridiculously luxurious.  Beans?  Onion???

[mfbrandi]

Not so much a dumb theory as a dumb question. Given:

Quote

[T]he illuminated one will know as truth that Chaos is, in itself, neither evil nor inimical … It makes the person of Law free from automatic fear of Chaos and the obsession to destroy it. Likewise, it frees creatures of Chaos from their twisted convictions and offers them the chance to rid themselves of the hate which rules their lives.

Illumination will give the realization, but it is not necessary that an individual change his life if he has other, stronger beliefs which intervene. — CoT, p. 86

How does one motivate anti-Chaos fanaticism in an illuminate? Rummage in your bag of possible stronger beliefs.

    Chaos is neither evil nor inimical but I will root it out and destroy it because …

Answers on a post card, please. 25 words or fewer. If your answer is chosen, you win a holiday to sunny Dorastor — spending money included, but travel insurance is extra. The judges’ decision is final.

Edited February 17, 2023 by mfbrandi
whitespace

[John Biles]

1 hour ago, mfbrandi said:

Not so much a dumb theory as a dumb question. Given:

How does one motivate anti-Chaos fanaticism in an illuminate? Rummage in your bag of possible stronger beliefs.

    Chaos is neither evil nor inimical but I will root it out and destroy it because …

Answers on a post card, please. 25 words or fewer. If your answer is chosen, you win a holiday to sunny Dorastor — spending money included, but travel insurance is extra. The judges’ decision is final.

I can rob Chaos and it won't be a crime.

[Joerg]

´The difference between Brithini and Mostali is that Brithini claim to be natural descendants (Srvuali) of the Man Rune, whereas Mostali were Made Creatures created (if not even constructed) by Mostal the Maker.

The Brithini are one of the splinter groups of the original people of Danmalastan, the backwater exiles mostly of the Enrovalini but buffered with refugees from the Tadeniti and Kadeniti and possibly some Kachasti. The subsequent purges of "dissdents" from Brithos might have been ethnic cleansing banishing this refugee population.

The Mostali remained mostly on the Spike and/or in Mt. Thakarn (Magnetic Mountain), with only some lesser work forces spread around the rest of the surface world. The Somelz reconstruction (centered on Slon) may have been the biggest such project,

 

 

 

[hipsterinspace]

3 hours ago, Joerg said:

The difference between Brithini and Mostali is that Brithini claim to be natural descendants (Srvuali) of the Man Rune, whereas Mostali were Made Creatures created (if not even constructed) by Mostal the Maker.

It’s still somewhat tricky, to differentiate on that basis alone. All man rune beings were also created by Mostal the Maker (also called Urtiam in Malkioni and Orlanthi sources), with the incorporation of Uleria (the Grower) in that process. Together their child was Grandfather Life who in death became Grandfather Mortal.

[Joerg]

8 minutes ago, hipsterinspace said:

It’s still somewhat tricky, to differentiate on that basis alone. All man rune beings were also created by Mostal the Maker (also called Urtiam in Malkioni and Orlanthi sources), with the incorporation of Uleria (the Grower) in that process. Together their child was Grandfather Life who in death became Grandfather Mortal.

Zzabur begs to differ, in his One World text in Revealed Mythologies. Neither the One World or the Maseren/Paseren concept were incorporated into the Monomyth, yet they remain somewhat relevant to Malkioni sorcery and use of the Abiding Book.

[PhilHibbs]

21 hours ago, Eff said:

Let's go metatextual for a moment.

Sorry. I mis-read that word. Now it's going to be a while before I'm in the right frame of mind to read the rest of your post.

[mfbrandi]

6 hours ago, Joerg said:

Mostal the Maker

Well, I would say that my dumb theory was that Mostal was not the Maker but the World Machine — and that the World Machine was not made but there from the beginning. All talk of making is unwarranted anthropomorphism. In this way of looking at things, the key Mostali concept is not the design or the blueprint but efficient causation or (differently) the world as mathematically describable. This calls the concept of repair into serious question.

I would say this was my dumb theory, but wasn’t it an RQ3 orthodoxy? (Gods as people was just a fable for the dim and the ignorant. There are no gods. There are no people. There is only the World Machine.)

[jajagappa]

4 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

Mostal was not the Maker but the World Machine — and that the World Machine was not made but there from the beginning.

It's a TikTok world and the Blind Watchmaker (Invisible God) assembled it, wound it up, and let it go!