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I know I've come up with some whoppers over the years but tonight I can no longer shake the suspicion that the whole Third Age cult around "heroes" is actually rooted in a faulty transmission of the archaic "horal" ethos. 

What convictions do YOU have that you recognize are ridiculous but love them anyway?

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I am confident that Argrath is just a trickster way in over his head.

Wow, this has been my favourite thread here at BRP Central for a long, long time - and I feel like by reading it I've added a significant percentage on to my chance of Illumination next Sacred Time.

@Jeff posted this in the RuneQuest FB group: to which Matthew Cole commented as follows:  

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Malkion (the creator supra-deity) and Glorantha (the cosmos personified) are somehow the same/analogues.

It doesn't really fit any known evidence, but the way they're presented in the myths just kinda slots together in my mind.

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53 minutes ago, scott-martin said:

What convictions do YOU have that you recognize are ridiculous but love them anyway?

I am confident that Argrath is just a trickster way in over his head.

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I maintain my argument from my own thread several months ago that Argan Argar is the product of a discrete liaison between Yelm and Xentha, and that his ultimate confrontation with Lodril was a 'Sword in the Stone' moment when he proved his right to kingship to his uncle.

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Eurmal survived Moonfall, and is the only god who can grant magic in the time of Harshax. He let go of his strand of the net, and the gods still holding the net got trapped and eaten by Wakboth. But the god of mobility, disorder and illusion has been escaping the clutches of the devil and people throwing nets at him since before time. He's still out there somewhere.

Edited by EricW
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The Lhankor Mhy cult with its beard obligation is the rebel cult for the poor suppressed males inside the feminist dictatorship of the Grandmothers in Esrolia. A collection of gynophobes able to force female members to hide their sex behind artificial beards and shapeless clothing. (That was before the Minoan dresses became standard for the Esrolians.)

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Argath vs Nysalor is a battle where neither of them is Gbaji, rather, he used Argath's obsessive mania and Nysalor's utter lack of caring about his worshippers to pit them against each other to lay waste to Glorantha.  This was a battlle where the only way Gbaji doesn't win is if they stop fighting.

The same applies to the EWF vs the God-Learners and Argath vs. the Red Goddess.  None of them were Gbaji, but by ensuring that mortals lay waste to Genertla, they facilitate  the eventual victory of Chaos.

Also, illumination, while not inherently evil, is probably going to cause you to become a raving lunatic unless it's extremely strictly controlled through monastic discipline.

Any illuminate who doesn't retreat from the world will eventually cook up some insane scheme which will make them either a threat or a menace.

3 hours ago, dumuzid said:

I maintain my argument from my own thread several months ago that Argan Argar is the product of a discrete liaison between Yelm and Xentha, and that his ultimate confrontation with Lodril was a 'Sword in the Stone' moment when he proved his right to kingship to his uncle.

In my heretical Glorantha, Yelm married one goddess from each element in order to balance his rule.  Unfortunately, he lacked an understanding of women and alienated all of them except Dendara.  

These are all from the Solar perspective in my take on Glorantha:

  • Argan Argar, Son of Yelm and Xentha, God of Twilight and Civilized Trolls, (Darkness, Communications, Motion), was the result of the brief, disastrous marriage between his parents. She was too dark and he was too bright and they both injured each other. But their child could function in both their worlds. Argan led his mother's armies dutifully for revenge on Yelm, but on first seeing his father, realized his error and talked his mother into accepting the hand of peace offered by Yelm. He it was who wrote the peace treaty. And he it is who greets his father on his return from the Underworld and his departure to it, greeting also his mother when she rises from slumber at dusk and returns to bed at dawn. Any who would deal peacefully with Trolls initiate into his cult. Trolls who wish to be civilized do so as well. He is married to Ernalda's sister Esrola, but unlike Ernalda the whore, she is faithful and decent and hard-working like Yelm's wife, Dendara.
  • Dendara the Weaver, the Faithful Wife (Water, Harmony, Plant), was Yelm's choice of a wife from the Water Tribe. He originally married one woman from each tribe, during his first life, in order to bring harmony at the court. He would spend a season with each wife and during that season, the sky would take on her color. But all his wives betrayed him but Dendara, who stood by his side to the end, then remained faithful even after his death. Thus it is that he trusts her and is now married to only her. Likewise, all men must take only one woman as their wife. Dendara's greatest deed was that she inspired Yelm to create humanity with the aid of the Celestial Court, that they might sing the praises of the gods. Dendara is kind to all with only one exception: Ernalda the Bad Wife. While the other wives also betrayed Yelm, only she incited her lover to murder him unjustly. No one may initiate in Dendara's worship who has the Mastery or Earth rune, and only women may initiate to her.
  • Esrola the Bounteous, (Fertility, Motion, Earth), is the elder sister of Ernalda but the younger sister of Maran Gor; when her mother Asriela retired as Queen of the Earth Tribe, she gave her power over fertility and the bounty of the Earth to Esrola. Esrola has a bright sense of humor and while she tends to be mellow and friendly, is as smart as her sister, but faithful and true, unlike the evil whore Ernalda. In Peloria, she is seen as the wife of Argan Argar.
  • Ernalda the Gold-Digging Traitor (Earth, Fertility, Disorder), was the youngest daughter of the Earth goddess Asrelia; she married Yelm as a sign of his rule over the Element of Earth. Unfortunately, she was a lying, thieving, conniving traitor who used her charms to entice the Rebel God Orlanth to murder the Emperor, who refused to hand over his authority to him. She remains theoretically married to Orlanth but is well known to sleep around with any god who catches her eye. Any woman who hopes to exploit a man's wealth, then throw him away prays to Ernalda for help, along with those planning to betray a trust or commit treason. While her husband repented and took up his rightful place in subordination to Yelm, she remains coldly defiant and manipulative, the very eidoleon of a wicked, uncontrolled woman. In the end, one can only pity poor Orlanth for being married to this woman.
  • Xentha, Goddess of the Night Sky and Trolls (Darkness, Disorder, Truth), was Yelm's wife from the Darkness Tribe, but everything went horribly wrong because Yelm's glorious light burned her when she got close to him. He was unwilling to relent and so she fled his palace and declared herself not married. Then she went to the Underworld and bred an army of trolls for revenge. She also gave birth to her son by Yelm, Argan Argar; he would lead her armies on the surface, for he could stand the light due to his mixed parentage! When Yelm died, her forces began to conquer everything and the Great Darkness came. But when Yelm returned, he had learned to temper justice with mercy; instead of destroying her as was his right, he convinced her to marry his brother Dayzatar, whose light did not burn so brightly. Having seen the havoc her children caused, she repented and her eyes were opened to the Truth, enabling her to bear the light. She married Dayzatar and now lives happily with him. Yet her nature could not fully change and the darkness of night brings out disorder in all. But she says it merely reveals the truth. For she says, "Character is what you do in the dark."
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  • Nysalor is Yelm
  • Gbaji is not Nysalor, he is his worries and doubts personified. Arkat helped Nysalor overcome his doubts after which Nysalor ascended as the next driving force behind Yelm
  • Yelm = Arraz is just thougthless autistic orb that needs a pilot. This explains why there were so many suns, they were his "driver". Murharzam was one of these drivers, thats why the sun died after he was killed. The current driver is Nysalor. It also explains relationship of Arraz as the servant of the gods.
  • Tolat is the real red moon.
  • Orlanth is Vingkot.
  • Vadrus was Umaths Babeester Gor, a spirit of revange that came out of his corpse.  After he killed the sun, he ceased to exist as his job was complete. The only winner of the gods war.
  • Antigods are kaiju (Godzilla and other stuff for these uninitiated.) Crimson Bat is Antigod.
  • There is a secret son of Lhankor Mhy there somewhere. We know that he laid with the lady of knowledge at least 1 time, on loon island, and possibly another time in underworld. We know that his quest for knowledge wasnt fruitless, because he is know it all god after all. Probably a secre Orlanthi god of Sorcerery. If there is a child from the LBQ, then it probably is a deity of Mysticism as it wouldnt be born before compromise, so is neverborn  and that already has a ton of mystical connotations.
  • Mahome is the most competent deity in the entire pantheon. Just think about it, she made a random orphan into a god of hunting, in a place where nothing grows and before hunting existed, with just three meals. Having only berries and carrion avaiable.
  • When father Yelm hates mother Kygor Litor very much he pierces her womb with his fiery spear and impregnates her with a race of mutated troll goblins. Trollkin get Yelm as ancestral cult.
Edited by Borygon
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47 minutes ago, Borygon said:
  • Nysalor is Yelm
  • Gbaji is not Nysalor, he is his worries and doubts personified. Arkat helped Nysalor overcome his doubts after which Nysalor ascended as the next driving force behind Yelm
  • Yelm = Arraz is just thougthless autistic orb that needs a pilot. This explains why there were so many suns, they were his "driver". Murharzam was one of these drivers, thats why the sun died after he was killed. The current driver is Nysalor. It also explains relationship of Arraz as the servant of the gods.

I'm now imagining Yelm as being like John Malkovich in the movie Being John Malkovich.

 

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Durulz-ducks in central Genertela are actually unrelated to keets. They're a draconic race, descended from dragonewts -- like magisaurs -- hence them being found in Dragon Pass.

Their teeth are the most obvious indicator of this, but also their own mythology: "They claim to have once been the rulers of the world until their own sins and errors forced them into subservience to lesser races (elves, trolls, etc.) and, later, to humans." A remnant of their former draconic nature, and the all important sins of draconic resurrection that give rise to magisaurs and dinosaurs.

Also IMG the "villanovan" style crest that some Orlanthi wear (E5 in Armies and Enemies of Dragon Pass) are popular with them, and this is because it originated within the EWF, in imitation of the crests of dragonewt scouts.

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The Gold Wheel Dancers were the female expressions of Sun, Fire, and the associated runes - feminine Yelm for example. They were ruthlessly suppressed in the first age, and even the myths (such as: "Orlanth proposes to [female] Yelm") were crushed.

The whole of Gloranthan history is Orlanth preventing anyone from doing to him what he did to Yelm before history began.

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- The Red Emperor gave birth to Yara Aranis, Hon-Eel, and Jar-Eel in a literal sense. 

- At least one prominent figure in the Hero Wars is really three durulz in a big coat. 

- The lesson the Loskalmi should be taking from the Kingdom of War is "It's not always about you."

- There are "metals" for each important Rune, besides the elemental ones, law-adamant, stasis-stone, and death-iron. Only Mostali know about them, and only Mostali would care. 

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My interpretation of Glorantha is that it’s all a simulation possibly run by dragons (or beings so advanced -like computer programmers- that the little progs in the machine can only understand them as dragons) and the Godlearner secret is that it’s all a game and they learned the code behind the Matrix.

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The Invisible God and the Cosmic Dragon are the same being, and the caste system of Malkionism reflects the life stages of the Dragonewts.

Both the IG and CD created the world through devolution and distinct actions, and in the process incorporated themselves into the world. Both of them are beings far beyond the understanding of mortals, nearly impossible to reach and incomprehensible to all but the most dedicated followers. Both of them endorse a form of magic which relies on the power of the user and doesn't require the intervention of supernatural beings. Both of their followers believe that they are greater than the material world and will eventually leave it to join with their creator in blissful unity. Finally, both of their religions are disturbing and often incomprehensible to outsiders.
 
Crested/Scouts = Dronar/Farmers. Both are the lowest rank in the social ladder, subject to the whims of their betters and providing for the community.
Beaked/Warriors = Horali/Soldiers. Both serve as the elite protectors of their community, and both are easy to fall out of their path via interaction with others.
Tailed/Priest = Talar/Ruler. Both serve as the speakers and public leaders for their communities, engaging with outsiders and indulging their desires, yet entrenched enough in their religion that they do not easily fall. Some may think that Priests should be the equivalent of Wizards, but if you compare the social roles of the two it doesn't add up.
Winged/Ruler = Zzaburi/Wizard. Both are the true rulers of their communities, though they prefer to act through others rather than directly, both are masters of their respective magics and are in charge of spiritual health, and both seclude themselves from the world in favor of spiritual pursuits.
 
There's a lot of holes in this theory, and I don't even fully believe it, but it is interesting that there are so many similarities in the first place.
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10 minutes ago, pachristian said:

Also:

Genertela is actually post-holocaust North America. All that business about it being a flat world is just "we present it this way in publications because that's what your characters believe". 

I tried to make the sky mechanics work for a planet, but even if you place Magasta's pool on the North or South Pole and have the sun as a satellite of the planet on a polar orbit (and the other planets, too), you sttill have some problems. You need to throw all of that over board.

Restructuring the North American tectonics to get rid of the Rockies and to create the Rockwoods would be more than just a cataclysm, and with that much going on I see no reason to keep roughly the same shape of dry area in that case.

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19 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Restructuring the North American tectonics to get rid of the Rockies and to create the Rockwoods would be more than just a cataclysm, and with that much going on I see no reason to keep roughly the same shape of dry area in that case.

"Your Dumbest Theory"

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8 hours ago, Brootse said:

Yelmalio = Elmal = Eurmal

No, it's Orlanth who's the real Trickster (and the Imtherians can prove it!).  Not sure how dumb that is, but certainly one of my favorite theories.

Along that same line, the real (and original) leader of the Lightbringer's quest is Lightfore.  Every day he undertakes the quest, every night he tells the story.

The original RQ map of the world is the correct one - there really is land and mountains beyond Kahar's Sea of Fog and the Mountains of the Sky rise up in the Far North beyond Valind's Waste.

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From the Guide; " Arkat Returns Five times! The ways of Heroquesting are abruptly opened, and it isn’t what everyone expected. One is a troll, one is a Chaos monster, and no one is quite sure which incarnation the other three are." One the remaining three Arkats is a Duck, which certainly no one expected. However, no one believes him. "But honest and truly, I am Arkat!" He attempts to prove that he is Arkat to anyone he meets by imitating some past feat of the ancient hero. These always spectacularly backfire. One day, an attempt will backfire so badly that it will end the Third Age, thus proving his point.


 

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