Babeestor Gor and Elves

[claycle]

While boning up for today's game, I came across this interesting namedrop in the RQG Bestiary on Elves:

Quote

Worship of Aldrya is near-universal among dryads and green, brown, and yellow elves. Heterodoxy and apostasy are nearly unknown, though friendly deities such as Yelmalio, Babeester Gor, and Flamal are welcomed in secondary cultural roles. 

Yelmalio and Flamal I knew, but Babeestor Gor? I missed this connection.

Could someone explain and/or simply cite a few of sources I could follow up myself that explain the relationship?

Thanks!

[David Scott]

They are sisters, look at the Earth Genealogy in the Glorantha Source book.

From the forthcoming Gods of Glorantha:

Quote

 

ELVES AND BABEESTER GOR

Babeester Gor is the primary war deity for the Aldryami outside of High King Elf. She is particularly popular with rootless elves. Despite being sister goddesses, Aldrya and Babeester Gor are not associated cults and are always worshiped separately. Some humans believe this is because Babeester Gor is so closely identified with the very weapon that cut down Flamal in the Gods War. Although the cults are not associated, Babeester Gor protects and defends Aldrya like she would any other Earth deity.

 

 

[Sir_Godspeed]

She is the Earth Avenger, so that makes sense. 

Though this summons images of crazy, blood-drenched Aldryami berserkers*, which is both terrifying and awesome.

(*I know that it's Uroxi who are called berserkers in Glorantha, but I find Gorite rage hard to describe in other words.)

[Leingod]

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

She is the Earth Avenger, so that makes sense. 

Though this summons images of crazy, blood-drenched Aldryami berserkers*, which is both terrifying and awesome.

(*I know that it's Uroxi who are called berserkers in Glorantha, but I find Gorite rage hard to describe in other words.)

I dip into Mass Effect, where the krogan have a berserk state that's called "blood rage." Seems fitting as a term given they drink "blood beer" and there's a lot more blood imagery in general that Uroxi don't have.

[Runeblogger]

During the Mongoose era of RQ, Shannon Applecline published a book about the Aldryami "Elfs - A Guide to the Aldryami" that includes a big pantheon of gods and an interesting elven philosophy of balance between Life and Death. I think in that book, Babeester Gor is called Bengara, and she is considered the Death that is necessary to preserve Life.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Runeblogger

[Lordabdul]

On 6/13/2020 at 8:43 AM, Sir_Godspeed said:

Though this summons images of crazy, blood-drenched Aldryami berserkers*, which is both terrifying and awesome.

(*I know that it's Uroxi who are called berserkers in Glorantha, but I find Gorite rage hard to describe in other words.)

Storm Bull: "berserkers". Maran Gor: "rumblers". Babeester Gor: "shredders"

[Leingod]

10 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

Maran Gor: "rumblers"

No, they're called "quakers."

(Actually, does anyone but me crack a smile every time the "Shaker Temple" is brought up because it calls to mind the obscure Christian sect called the Shakers, a.k.a. the "Shaking Quakers"? I feel like it has to have been an intentional joke on someone's part)

Edited July 10, 2020 by Leingod

[Lordabdul]

6 minutes ago, Leingod said:

the obscure Christian sect called the Shakers

The Shakers actually broke off from the prior Quakers group... that's why I'd rather call the Maran Gorites "rumblers"    (plus, it gives them a "wrestling / lucha libre" vibe! Imagine playing with a fancy mask!)

Edited July 10, 2020 by lordabdul

[Ali the Helering]

The Shakers danced in gender-separate squares, which seems highly appropriate for the Dark Earth. 

[Leingod]

19 minutes ago, Ali the Helering said:

The Shakers danced in gender-separate squares, which seems highly appropriate for the Dark Earth. 

They were (are, technically, as there's 3 Shakers left as of the last time I checked) also celibate, which doesn't quite match Maran Gor's situation, but the general idea that you don't marry or have kids fits well enough, as does the setup of communal orders surrounded by non-communal sympathizers track reasonably well with the situation of the Tarsh Exiles.

[Ian Absentia]

On 6/13/2020 at 8:27 AM, David Scott said:

From the forthcoming Gods of Glorantha:

Babeester Gor is the primary war deity for the Aldryami outside of High King Elf. She is particularly popular with rootless elves.

This probably belongs in the Your Dumbest Theory thread, but I rather like taking a page from The Elder Scrolls (itself derived in no small part from RuneQuest and Glorantha).  In those games, the Wood Elves are strictly carnivorous in order to cause no harm to plant life.  Translated to Glorantha, the rootless elves are no longer sustained directly from the Earth, and instead become part of the Earth's digestive process by, er, "mulching" the meat-beings they kill.  Babeester Gor is a marvelous means toward that end.

!i!

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Ian Absentia said:

Translated to Glorantha, the rootless elves are no longer sustained directly from the Earth, and instead become part of the Earth's digestive process by, er, "mulching" the meat-beings they kill.  Babeester Gor is a marvelous means toward that end.

I'm sure this exists in Onlaks.  (Whereas in Maslo, the situation was all ritualized by Elam-ate so that humans were not actually eaten.)

[John Biles]

4 hours ago, Leingod said:

No, they're called "quakers."

(Actually, does anyone but me crack a smile every time the "Shaker Temple" is brought up because it calls to mind the obscure Christian sect called the Shakers, a.k.a. the "Shaking Quakers"? I feel like it has to have been an intentional joke on someone's part)

The Shakers invented the clothespin, the modern broom, and a style of furniture called Shaker furniture.

Sadly, they are nigh-extinct now.

[EricW]

Do Elves have a trickster problem? Mythologically trickster hangs around Barbeester Gor like a bad smell, so it’s difficult to imagine Barbeester Gor elves without Tricksters to keep them company.

[Sir_Godspeed]

1 hour ago, EricW said:

Do Elves have a trickster problem? Mythologically trickster hangs around Barbeester Gor like a bad smell, so it’s difficult to imagine Barbeester Gor elves without Tricksters to keep them company.

Ah, yes. Squirrel. 

Friend of the forest... of sorts. 



(Purely making up stuff here... a vegetative representation of the Trickster might be something like a creeping vine which is parasitic to trees - or even something fungal, even if Dark Elves themselves aren't particularly trickstery.)

[David Scott]

1 hour ago, EricW said:

Do Elves have a trickster problem? Mythologically trickster hangs around Barbeester Gor like a bad smell, so it’s difficult to imagine Barbeester Gor elves without Tricksters to keep them company.

The only references to BG and Eurmal are that he was BG's first lover (she had many others), encouraging her intoxicated slaughter and changing blood to beer. Eurmal isn't an associated cult either. What's your reasoning for having trickers keeping elf BGs company?

[EricW]

2 hours ago, David Scott said:

The only references to BG and Eurmal are that he was BG's first lover (she had many others), encouraging her intoxicated slaughter and changing blood to beer. Eurmal isn't an associated cult either. What's your reasoning for having trickers keeping elf BGs company?

Trickster is a versatile god, if there is a pretty angry young axe maiden, somewhere nearby is a trickster with a flagon of intoxicating whatever aldryami drink!

[MJ Sadique]

23 hours ago, EricW said:

Do Elves have a trickster problem ?

Stone Mostali, remembering about losing some Jolanti, will state that Elves ARE the trickster problem ! Most Mostali will state that the very nature of Elves are to trick you but to me it's just that aldryami are cunning foes. From what I remember, the most of tricky aldryami are the harmless pixies. The only problem if you kill them is  that you are making Shanasse very Sad, Aldrya becoming very Angry and Babeester GOR going very Bloody ! (Some will state that it's trickster fault not their because trickster are seen everywhere people refuse to accept their own fault).

First, We should not forget that an Eurmali trickster is usefull to stop Babeester GOR like Chalana Arroy can stop Storm Bull's berserkers but It's a role linked to the Orlanthi mythology.

Second, Aldrya(mi) need Babeester Gor to fill a blank : Giving a role to the Aldryami that cannot stay in the forest, for the one who were (re-)born with an insatiable range and hate. So Aldrya(mi) may not need an eurmali to stop BG's berserkers. We don't have much Lore about Aldryami but in their own mythe if Babeester Gor only stop when the dawn occur maybe they only need Voria (incarnating dawn) or Aldrya (Incarating mother earth reborn) to stop her.

23 hours ago, David Scott said:

The only references to BG and Eurmal are that he was BG's first lover (she had many others), encouraging her intoxicated slaughter and changing blood to beer.

Maybe Shanasse or the High King Elf can fill the role of the pacifying lover like Eurmal, if another god has done the same they don't need to do it like/as Eurmal.

[Sir_Godspeed]

40 minutes ago, MJ Sadique said:

Stone Mostali, remembering about losing some Jolanti, will state that Elves ARE the trickster problem !

Ah, yes, when Mostali and Aldryami were competing in who had the best secrets, the Aldryami won because they didn't reveal them. Clever folk.

[scott-martin]

3 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Ah, yes, when Mostali and Aldryami were competing in who had the best secrets, the Aldryami won because they didn't reveal them. Clever folk.

Every forest secret worth knowing either remains unrevealed or is now the common property of every peasant shoveling dirt. On the whole a marginal win so far.

The dwarves screwed up by trying to keep everything and so spawned whole nations full of motivated snoops. And someone down there always wants to brag so the snoops keep coming.

In terms of tricksters, this is probably a role for aldryami who understand fire, "the rose that takes." As noted above, runners and pixies handle most of the day-to-day shenanigans / shanannigans so the forests can echo with laughter. Does anybody, ah, remember laughter? Some are susceptible to a kind of fermentation that converts the sugars into alcohol . . . growth bubbles over when the fire within gets too hot. Trickster understands that process and can share with a few friendly cults.

Only YOU can prevent forest fires.

 

[jajagappa]

22 minutes ago, scott-martin said:

In terms of tricksters, this is probably a role for aldryami who understand fire, "the rose that takes."

The Firebringer is clearly a feared and hated Trickster.  Perhaps he comes with a Lightning strike at an old oak.  Perhaps in the midst of a drought and the heat of Yelm to send tendrils of flame out amidst the dry pine needles.  He releases Oakfed, the Burner.  

And yet, wise Gardeners know that some seeds only sprout once the fire has passed.  Or that the fire will clear away the clinging underbrush or the heavy vines that seek to smother the trees (the result of uncontrolled, untended growth).  Or that the fire will purge the forest of tree eating insects and trollkin.  Maybe the wisest Gardeners keep a Firebringer at hand - closely bound to oaths to only release their fire when instructed...?