The God Learner Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 6 hours ago, Nick Brooke said: Just when you think the other side can’t stoop any lower with their dehumanising arguments, this nonsense pops up. “Yeah. All the kids in that school my hero shot up? They were all evil mutants, soulless abominations and devil-children.” It would seem to me this thread is headed for an imminent locking, but before then -- indeed, why did we even have the I Fought For Some Reason We Won Nothing thing anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhôrahil Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Nick Brooke said: Just when you think the other side can’t stoop any lower with their dehumanising arguments, this nonsense pops up. “Yeah. All the kids in that school my hero shot up? They were all evil mutants, soulless abominations and devil-children.” *Sure* they were... While I'm sure chaos mutation happened to a number of Lunars, should we really picture the Tripolis or Pelanda as eager tentacle-hives, rather than places viciously oppressed by their new monstrous overlords (and then killed in droves by Argrath)? I don't buy it. Edited July 28, 2020 by Akhôrahil 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Brooke Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 22 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said: While I'm sure chaos mutation happened to a number of Lunars, should we really picture the Tripolis or Pelanda as eager tentacle-hives, rather than places viciously oppressed by their new monstrous overlords (and then killed in droves by Argrath)? I don't buy it. Even Argrath's Saga presents them as innocent victims. It's only the extremist ultras that try to deny his victims' humanity, or pretend they deserved what he did to them. 4 Community Ambassador - Jonstown Compendium, Chaosium, Inc. Email: nick.brooke@chaosium.com for community content queries Jonstown Compendium ⧖ Facebook Ф Twitter † old website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davecake Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 On 7/21/2020 at 1:27 PM, Darius West said: we do have records of Arkat leaving Dorastor covered in Chaos features Do we? Source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali the Helering Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 3 hours ago, davecake said: Do we? Source? Everything to do with Dorastor after he left through to the present? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhôrahil Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Ali the Helering said: Everything to do with Dorastor after he left through to the present? Is it Arkat or Dorastor that was covered in chaos features, here? Dorastor was mostly dead ground after Arkat's curse, and I kinda doubt that Arkat himself was mutated? Or? Edited July 29, 2020 by Akhôrahil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard S. Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 42 minutes ago, Ali the Helering said: Everything to do with Dorastor after he left through to the present? I'm pretty sure it only got filled with chaos again after the god learners brought back our favorite unicorn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali the Helering Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 15 minutes ago, Richard S. said: I'm pretty sure it only got filled with chaos again after the god learners brought back our favorite unicorn Quoting the Wiki here, acknowledging it is not itself canon, "Arkat cursed it with the Curse of Cleansing into becoming a foul chaos infested hell". Away from my books at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhôrahil Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Ali the Helering said: Quoting the Wiki here, acknowledging it is not itself canon, "Arkat cursed it with the Curse of Cleansing into becoming a foul chaos infested hell". Away from my books at the moment. What happened was that it was cursed to be dead. Only much later did it become chaotically fecund. Quote His anger and hatred knew no bounds. Arkat salted the land, poisoned the waters, and then called upon the Curse of Cleansing and invoked the gods to scourge and curse the land forever. The fertile bowl of Dorastor was filled with mud and ash. (Although to be fair, he cursed Dokat with broos and stuff.) Edited July 29, 2020 by Akhôrahil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali the Helering Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 1 hour ago, Akhôrahil said: What happened was that it was cursed to be dead. Scourged, cursed, mud, ash. Good breeding ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhôrahil Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 16 minutes ago, Ali the Helering said: Scourged, cursed, mud, ash. Good breeding ground. Mmm, took well over 300 years for life to return, so perhaps not so much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 On 7/27/2020 at 4:16 PM, Darius West said: Ultimately the slaughter of Peloria is a mass Hero Quest. Orlanth killing Yelm... A lot. Also, shades of the True Golden Horde is reverse or Sheng Seleris Conquers Peloria. You could even squeeze in the First Council Liberates Peloria, at a stretch. On 7/27/2020 at 4:35 PM, Darius West said: If Argrath were only devoted to destroying the Lunar Empire he would never have taken the time to court and marry the Feathered Horse Queen. That was just a shrewd tactic in his power-play. If you look at what he does, it is designed to gain more and more power as he goes along. On 7/27/2020 at 4:40 PM, The God Learner said: On 7/27/2020 at 4:16 PM, Darius West said: But seriously, by the time the slaughtering gets going in earnest the Lunars have devolved into the monster empire, and likely Argrath is getting the blame for the "Lunar" Empire imploding. It might well be that the Lunar population then by and large had amassed chaos features and so had literally become an empire of monsters, krjalki. That is what happened to the Bright Empire. It did not generally accept alien powers until its very existence was threatened, then the people panicked and allowed Gbaji to influence them. The Lunar Empire is following a very similar path. Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 6 hours ago, davecake said: On 7/21/2020 at 6:27 AM, Darius West said: we do have records of Arkat leaving Dorastor covered in Chaos features Do we? Source? Arkat broke and smashed Dorastor. In my opinion, yes, much of Dorastor's chaotic nature is a direct result of Arkat. However, much isn't. It was the site of the Unholy Trinity being formed and the birth of Wakboth, for example, both would leave a trace. things like the Great Gorp were caused before Arkat, Hellwood's Chaotic nature was caused a long time after Arkat. Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhôrahil Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, soltakss said: Arkat broke and smashed Dorastor. In my opinion, yes, much of Dorastor's chaotic nature is a direct result of Arkat. However, much isn't. It was the site of the Unholy Trinity being formed and the birth of Wakboth, for example, both would leave a trace. things like the Great Gorp were caused before Arkat, Hellwood's Chaotic nature was caused a long time after Arkat. Basically, it was all chaos, so Arkat nuked it. Then the chaos came back, only now it was radioactive as well. Edited July 29, 2020 by Akhôrahil 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali the Helering Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 6 hours ago, Akhôrahil said: Mmm, took well over 300 years for life to return, so perhaps not so much... Observed life. What was oozing beneath the mud or travelling within the ash, leaping on the plateau or slinking within the forest..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 14 hours ago, Akhôrahil said: Basically, it was all chaos, so Arkat nuked it. Then the chaos came back, only now it was radioactive as well. I am stealing that for one of the Dorastor followups. 2 Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Godspeed Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 I really liked the idea that Arkat cursed Dorastor to contain all of the Bright Empire's Chaos, sort of like a containment zone. Hence why it doesn't spread and such. It's probably not canon, but it does kinda explain why someone so virulently anti-Chaos up and created the worst Chaos area on the continent. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joerg Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 On 7/12/2020 at 11:01 AM, David Scott said: Which makes a lot of sense as the Wolf Pirates are then the Varangian Guard with their role being to protect Argrath (the emperor). Only we mustn't say or think "Viking" any more... nowadays it is Sea Folk. Too bad that other than in the Iliad we don't know any Sea Folk leaders or their tales. Telling how it is excessive verbis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Scott Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Joerg said: Only we mustn't say or think "Viking" any more... nowadays it is Sea Folk. Too bad that other than in the Iliad we don't know any Sea Folk leaders or their tales. I said Varangian Guard not Viking, the Varangian Guard wasn't just Scandinavians, Harald also commanded Kievian Rus. They came up the rivers so I'm not sure sea folk is even the right description. ----- Search the Glorantha Resource Site: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com. Search the Glorantha mailing list archives: https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 12 hours ago, David Scott said: I said Varangian Guard not Viking, the Varangian Guard wasn't just Scandinavians, Harald also commanded Kievian Rus. They came up the rivers so I'm not sure sea folk is even the right description. Harald was of Viking descent and had relatives in Kievan Rus and in the Varangian Guard. The lands of the Danelaw, Northern/western Scotland, some parts of Ireland, Scandinavia, Normandy, Kievan Rus, all were connected by blood, culture and trade. Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joerg Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, David Scott said: I said Varangian Guard not Viking, the Varangian Guard wasn't just Scandinavians, Harald also commanded Kievian Rus. They came up the rivers so I'm not sure sea folk is even the right description. Using a different language term doesn't change the meaning, or the historical period. But then the Dark Ages are in many ways comparable to the transition from Bronze Age to Iron Age (and those transitions happened in different time frames in different regions of the Old World, never mind the Copper and Bronze Ages of the New World). Few battles without Roman Empire organization involved from that period could match the Battle of Tollense Crossing in manpower. The Varangian Guard actually had a significant component of English knights or thanes at certain times, too. To the Byzantines, they were pale, tall people from far away to the North or the North-West. But then, Crimean Goths probably would have qualified as Varangians, too. 1 hour ago, soltakss said: Harald was of Viking descent Harald was a Norwegian by birth, and a (royal) descendant of Harald Finehair. His first major battle was Olav the Holy's defeat at Stiklestad, from where he fled to his Kievian kin, and became a ship-king in exile. As such, he naturally drifted into the Varangian Guard, where he was so successful that he was eligible to take a Greek noble's daughter for his wife. 1 hour ago, soltakss said: and had relatives in Kievan Rus and in the Varangian Guard. Not that being relatives was always a good thing, especially among the descendants of Finehair. 1 hour ago, soltakss said: The lands of the Danelaw, Northern/western Scotland, some parts of Ireland, Scandinavia, Normandy, Kievan Rus, all were connected by blood, culture and trade. Add Nowgorod and the Baltic Sea Slavs in that network of shared culture, trade and blood. Mecklenburg and Sweden remained closely tied together during the Hanseatic period. Edited August 6, 2020 by Joerg 1 Telling how it is excessive verbis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Godspeed Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 I'm not sure if this is super-pertinent to the issues at hand. Suffice to say that Glorantha is being purged of certain northern and western European medieval terminology and references to focus more on ancient references. Make of that what you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said: Suffice to say that Glorantha is being purged of certain northern and western European medieval terminology and references to focus more on ancient references. Some of us have lived through several such purges and await the next purge with interest. 1 4 Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhôrahil Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 2 hours ago, soltakss said: Some of us have lived through several such purges and await the next purge with interest. First they came for Elmal, but I did nothing, because I’m not an Elmali. Then they came for Doburdun... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Godspeed Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, soltakss said: Some of us have lived through several such purges and await the next purge with interest. Yup. (Apropos of nothing, if I could do anything, I'd toss those Roman references away from Peloria, but that might just be me.) Edited August 6, 2020 by Sir_Godspeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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