Magic World 7E: Anyone, anyone? Bueller?...

[GothmogIV]

Any general thoughts on updating MU to the 7e rules? 

[rsanford]

I am just speaking for myself but I think Magic World's rules, for what it's trying to accomplish are already superior to 7E CoC. I wouldn't do a thing.

 

[SDLeary]

8 hours ago, GothmogIV said:

Any general thoughts on updating MU to the 7e rules? 

Depends on what your after I suppose. MagicWorld (and Stormbringer 5e) will do Swords and Sandals much better, and probably have a lower PC death rate. Cthulhu, because its not really tailored as a combat game, will more than likely impact PCs in those not-MGF ways; though I will admit that a 'bout of madness at an inopportune time could result in some hilarity.

Now, if you play using the Pulp rules, then you might be on to something.

On a personal note though, I'd swap the location on the sheet for rolled and high characteristic values... just helps me understand better the scale, as the crazy high numbers for beasties and mythos creatures just throws me way way off.

SDLeary

Edited January 27, 2021 by SDLeary

[Videopete]

To be fair Magic World would be getting a second edition, and would be an evolution of its current rules set, or what came from Elric!

[Videopete]

I can definitely see chases being added, and maybe the wounds ala can't die until you take a major wound.

[SDLeary]

1 hour ago, Videopete said:

I can definitely see chases being added, and maybe the wounds ala can't die until you take a major wound.

Chases could be good, yes... and would fit right in with the Ship rules. 

As for the second, Magic World is kind of already there...

Quote

p.57:

An Adventurer may take several minor wounds on the same day and the hit point cost may be equal to a major wound. A roll of POW x4 or less prevents the unconsciousness that accompanies a major wound. Do not roll on the Major Wound Table.

When a character has taken enough minor wounds to only have 2 Hit Points left he falls unconscious. After an hour, the character may attempt a CONx5 roll. Success results in the character rising from unconsciousness. Failure indicates the character remains unconscious for another hour; repeat the CONx5 roll every hour until the character regains consciousness.

Each minor wound is a separate wound.

So it doesn't rise to the level of a Major Wound, even if the cumulative damage takes you over the threshold. The last blow could always take you to 0 or lower though, or if your unconscious your opponent could always put you out of their misery.

I could also see letting people who get nickeled and dimes this way not die after 0, but go into a deeply unconscious (or into a coma?), which requires medical attention for a number of days equal to the number of points you are below 0 before you become conscious and can start healing naturally.

As for the wound penalties, I would be a bit harsher. After the MW threshold was cumulatively reached, I would require the consciousness roll and wound also reduces MOV by one, and skills by 5%. Each subsequent hit would require a consciousness roll one multiple less, and a further penalty to move and skills.

SDLeary

Edited January 27, 2021 by SDLeary

[Nick J.]

MW isn't held back by its mechanics, it was held back by its lackluster presentation and the scant product line support that followed it. 

Bringing the rules inline with CoC 7 wouldn't be a selling point for me.

[Videopete]

Remember that in MW int and pow are not capped at 21, and the spell brazier of power can be cast multiple times to stack allowing the casting of massive magic.

[Videopete]

Honestly Rather than doing a massive rewrite of the rules, a refinement might be needed for awkward wording.  And maybe a reworking of Champion of Light. As the current version is meh.  

To correct me if I am wrong but the difference between  say what a Law Champion does and what a normal conquer does, is a conquer takes land that already exist. But a Light Champion wrestles a new part of the world into being. The ruins they discover are merely rememnants of a cycle that happend prior to the current incarnation of the world.  This builds on the fact that Light creates.

And divorcing Light and Shadow from concepts of good and evil.

[GothmogIV]

I find the 7e rules to be very well-thought out and workable. I've been using a sort of bastardization of Cthulhu: Dark Ages and the 7e CoC core rule book to make sword and shield combat doable in a Dreamlands setting. I do love me some Magic World, though! 

 

[RogerDee]

Are not a lot of Magic World type stuff covered in the recent Runequest releases?

That is essentially a magic world esque environment; or use Mythras, which also has Pulp and Paragon rules.

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by RogerDee

[GothmogIV]

Runequest is a labyrinth into which I dare not enter. 

[soltakss]

1 hour ago, GothmogIV said:

Runequest is a labyrinth into which I dare not enter. 

Come on in, you'll like it, there's lots of new stuff, it's just like Call of Cthulhu or Magic World, look into my eyes ...

[RogerDee]

3 hours ago, GothmogIV said:

Runequest is a labyrinth into which I dare not enter. 

Forget the lore, it just has the rules needed to play a Magic World type of game. Or just go Mythras core and Mythras Companion and go from there. You could even make your own world up.

[Chaot]

On 1/29/2021 at 5:46 AM, RogerDee said:

or use Mythras

I'm allergic to hit locations and while combat styles are a step in the right direction I'm not a huge fan of their implementation.

[soltakss]

7 minutes ago, Chaot said:

I'm allergic to hit locations

Ah, hence your name.

I sympathise ...

[RogerDee]

43 minutes ago, Chaot said:

I'm allergic to hit locations and while combat styles are a step in the right direction I'm not a huge fan of their implementation.

Ignore hit locations which make no sense in real combat anyway.

[Nick J.]

On 2/4/2021 at 11:11 AM, RogerDee said:

Ignore hit locations which make no sense in real combat anyway.

. . . said no combatant ever.

[Lloyd Dupont]

On 2/5/2021 at 4:28 AM, Chaot said:

I'm allergic to hit locations

As many thing in BRP Combat Location are optional.

Many D100 fantasy game and players love them.. but in fantasy game with a good armor, location really increase durability, since the overall HP (sum of all location HP) is much higher than just (SIZ+CON)/2. As long as you don't get major or serious wound in one strike it's a big boost. Meanwhile you can also one shot minion with a good headshot.

However it become really painful quickly when everybody got powerful weapon, like in a scifi setting or with magic weapon galore. Because here location HP means everyone (including PC) is down is one hit. almost every single time.

So really, there is a place for location HP and another place for general HP. It's up to you, the GM, to make a judgement call as to what will provide best player experience!

Edited February 9, 2021 by Lloyd Dupont

[DreadDomain]

On 1/27/2021 at 3:44 AM, GothmogIV said:

Any general thoughts on updating MU to the 7e rules? 

Where do you feel 7e would improve MW?

• Characteristics on %?
• Pushing?
• Advantage/Disadvantage dice?
• Hard and extreme difficulties?
• Opposed rolls with difficulty based on opponent skills (and no resistance table)?
• Combat based on fighting, fighting maneuver, dodging and fighting back
• other?

Instead of updating MW, would playing with the Cthulhu Dark Ages mods sufficient?

Personally, I think Magic World is a set of rules that does what it is set to do but I am curious to know what you believe 7e would bring to the table?

[Simlasa]

I'm NOT a fan of the changes CoC 7e brought... in tone or mechanics. If I were to borrow anything from other BRP-related games it would be some of the magic options from Mythras/Legend, like Blood Magic.

[Zenith Comics Presents...]

  

On 1/26/2021 at 12:44 PM, GothmogIV said:

Any general thoughts on updating MU to the 7e rules? 

I'll be the sore thumb on this one but this is where I am heading the more I dive into both. I LOVE Magic World, but there are aspects of CoC7e I really like as well. That said in the end my BRP game will look a lot more Frankensteined than calling it MW or 7e or Pendragon, etc...

I am at the BRP buffet right now, picking what I like.

Also I JUST ordered my copy of Advanced Sorcery today 🙂

Watching this thread with great interest.

12 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

Where do you feel 7e would improve MW?

• Characteristics on %?
• Pushing?
• Advantage/Disadvantage dice?
• Hard and extreme difficulties?
• Opposed rolls with difficulty based on opponent skills (and no resistance table)?
• Combat based on fighting, fighting maneuver, dodging and fighting back
• other?

Instead of updating MW, would playing with the Cthulhu Dark Ages mods sufficient?

Personally, I think Magic World is a set of rules that does what it is set to do but I am curious to know what you believe 7e would bring to the table?

This is interesting, I have CoC Dark Ages as well, but I like a LOT of what MW brings as well, including the Demon/Elemental summoning/binding rules 😉

Naturally YMMV, as in all things.

BE HEROIC!

Edited February 10, 2021 by Andrew Collas Presents...

[Chaot]

On 2/9/2021 at 6:58 PM, Lloyd Dupont said:

Many D100 fantasy game and players love them.. but in fantasy game with a good armor, location really increase durability, since the overall HP (sum of all location HP) is much higher than just (SIZ+CON)/2. As long as you don't get major or serious wound in one strike it's a big boost. Meanwhile you can also one shot minion with a good headshot.

Elric!/Magic World characters are VERY durable as written without hit locations. Hit locations, action points, combat special effects, it all leaves me a bit cold. Why would I jump over to Mythras when I could use a system I like? I'm not saying that other people shouldn't enjoy it, just that I would rather start with a base that I feel is solid and add little bits from other systems as needed. It's really kind of sad because it's been a long time since I've looked forward to a BRP book coming out.

There's only one situation that I've been tempted by hit locations. I've contemplated using them in a Dark Sun game, where the emphasis is survival and the PCs are scrapping for any advantage they can get. Having to piece meal armor might be fun. Even then I think I would just settle for a partial armor rule.

[Lloyd Dupont]

Mmmm... I totally missed the Mythras angle! 😮
Obviously my answer had nothing to do with your concerns...
Let me stress though, that location HP are nothing specific to Mythras hence it was easy to get confused!

Personally I wouldn't advise to use Mythras so.. here you go! 😛
Although.. Ideally I would advise to have a look at all D100 systems to get many rule tweak ideas.. (I am fond of tweaking!)

So you are asking my why you should use Mythras, even though I wouldn't hey?
Mmmm.. let me think... I got some ideas (but they got absolutely nothing to with location HP...)
Here we go:

- it's publishers have done good work to publish numerous good quality supplements (including some free goody like the free firearms one), and they keep on going, with Lyonesse, just recently
- It got 5 distinctly flavored magic system. And some more in supplements, I quite liked the free and hidden, for copyright reason, Star War one
- the innovative combat system. i.e. the combat effect

Also, to give some more credits to Mythras, even though I ultimately rejected it, in my homebrew D100 games I apply the following rule change, due to a Mythras influence:
- I use only simple and critical success rolls (which is skill% dropping the unit, i.e. kind of 1/10th of the skill), i.e. got rid of special
- I use XP (1 xp = 1 increase roll, but 0% if you fail the roll , unlike Mythras that give 1%)
- I don't use combat effect but .. I give each weapon a few more options on crit that the 1 critical effect that you can chose in BRP, i.e. it's a hybrid between BRP and it's hard coded single effect (bleed, crush, etc..) and Mythras and its 20 possible choice

And finally why did I rejected Mythras?
- the painful unproductive discussion on how to tweak Sorcery (sorcery was not I wanted it to be, I also got it wrong and that was the end of Mythras forum users argument and willingness to discuss), while BRP the Magic power is more to my liking (elemental Magic still not to my liking, but got some ideas! 😛)
- turns out that our group prefers simpler combat system, like BRP, particularly variable number of action per round per character was not a win for our group.
- after seeing how simple is character creation is with Magic World,.. character creation in Mythras seems just too old fashion...

Edited February 11, 2021 by Lloyd Dupont

[Chaot]

11 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

Mmmm... I totally missed the Mythras angle! 😮
Obviously my answer had nothing to do with your concerns...
Let me stress though, that location HP are nothing specific to Mythras hence it was easy to get confused!

Personally I wouldn't advise to use Mythras so.. here you go! 😛
Although.. Ideally I would advise to have a look at all D100 systems to get many rule tweak ideas.. (I am fond of tweaking!)

Wait, is this post directed at me? I was specifically talking Mythras because RogerDee was talking Mythras.

Doesn't matter the system, RQ2, RQ3, Elfquest, the BGB (which I'm listed as a play tester), Mythras, whatever. I've never liked Hit Locations. As I said, it may be an allergy.