PC Possessed - What Are His Options?

[Ryan Kent]

A PC assistant shaman rolled a 00 during spirit combat and "surrendered" to the attacking spirit.  He is now a victim of open possession by a ghost of a scorpion man.  It may be a while before the party can even attempt to locate him in a snow storm.  Does he have any options on his own?  He has the rune spell Discorporation from Waha.  This is normally requires a one hour ritual to cast.  Not sure having the group try and find him and then tie him up and then try and locate a shaman is MGF.

[dumuzid]

an assistant shaman is in a bit of a pickle, not going to lie.  You might give them the chance to try Spirit Dance to use the displacement of the possessing spirit's presence to help them discorporate despite lacking the spiritual refinement to manage it without a rune magic ritual otherwise.

 

e: realistically though, the conventional answer is to subdue the possessed individual and get them to an exorcist, as you say.

Edited December 2, 2021 by dumuzid

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, Ryan Kent said:

A PC assistant shaman rolled a 00 during spirit combat and "surrendered" to the attacking spirit.  He is now a victim of open possession by a ghost of a scorpion man.  It may be a while before the party can even attempt to locate him in a snow storm.  Does he have any options on his own?  He has the rune spell Discorporation from Waha.  This is normally requires a one hour ritual to cast.  Not sure having the group try and find him and then tie him up and then try and locate a shaman is MGF.

I had a similar situation in one of my games not too long ago where the asst shaman got possessed by a Thanatari Mad Head ghost.  The PC's had to tie him up and carry him along.  They had to find ways to give him sustenance (luckily encountered a dwarf who was restocking a remote supply depot and got some useful cans of semi-liquid "food"), but also find someone who could exorcise the ghost.  In this case, they ended up in Tink where Forang Farosh, the EWF survivor, was able to invoke an exorcism. 

The problem with a Discorporation, if you were to allow it, is that it will take the asst shaman's spirit altogether out of the body and leave the ghost in sole possession. Effectively, the asst shaman has now traded places with the ghost.  And since the body is still "living", albeit with a different soul, the displaced asst shaman is probably in a race against Time to avoid traveling the Path of Silence to the Underworld.  The shaman's spirit would have to use Spirit Travel to try to find companions, or navigate the Spirit World for aid, etc.  I'd allow it though in the spirit of MGF.

An alternate is to keep the asst shaman's spirit trapped in the body with the ghost dominantly possessing it.  The body might now be driven into action by the ghost, perhaps even seeking out and attacking the companions.  Or it might lapse into some catatonic state.  An option in this case is to have the asst shaman enter into a dream state.  It's effectively some part of the Spirit World, too.  I might randomly roll a Rune to determine where in the Spirit/Dream World they are.  What they may have to do is effectively quest through the Dream World to find the dreams of their companions, or find some spiritual tool, and lead them back/return to the dreaming shaman's possessed body. 

[Akhôrahil]

Tie him up and carry him to his teacher to sort this out (or some other shaman). Not a lot of other options.

This was super close twice in one fight in my campaign (with Wild Hunt ghosts), but in both cases averted with 1-2 MP left.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Akhôrahil

[French Desperate WindChild]

death is always an option 😛

from my perspective the player cannot do a lot of things if the character is possessed and alone

but I see two open doors that a GM could propose :

1) resistance (never try but it may be interesting, don't know) : the soul try to regain her body. No spell, nothing else than its own will of surviving

I would propose that every hour (or day, or 6 hours, or.. if you are a nice GM, you let 2-3 rolls before other pcs are able to do something) the pc roll her best passion score against the pow of the spirit. If succeed, the soul is able to "emerge" and you can play a new spirit combat.

then the ouput:

• if the spirit combat is a pc victory, the pc is no more possessed
• if the spirit combat is a failure, the pc is still possessed, and the passion is reduced by 10. see you next hour / day / xxx
• if the passion roll is a failure, the passion is reduced by 20. see you next hour / day / xxx
• if there is no more passion (aka no passion > 49.999) game over

the point here is to consider that when there is nothing to do normaly, only passion can give you enough energy to fight again. But if your passion betrays you, that means the passion is not so strong than you believe and the possession transform deeply the character, even after being "freed".

 

2) luck

the easiest way for sure.

no other pc is able to save the poor one ? not an issue a group of adventurers (with a shaman or a priest, how lucky you are !) meet the pc, detect there is a possession (shaman can detect it very easily) and save the character. maybe after a fight and some wounds, but that's good for the soul anyway.

Who are these adventurers is another story. they can be friendly, or just interest by a ransom, or maybe a soul for a soul, I save you from the hell, your soul is mine, I will sacrifice you to my gods in x days (enough time for the others to come and save the pc)

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by French Desperate WindChild

[Squaredeal Sten]

20 hours ago, Ryan Kent said:

...  Not sure having the group try and find him and then tie him up and then try and locate a shaman is MGF.

Well it may not be MGF for that particular player, but for the rest of the party it may be a great exciting quest.  For the player this may be an important episode of character development: Ideally he or she would be a little less cocky next time around.  Perhaps a return to the master shaman for some training after the exorcism?

If you want to speed things up a little the possessing scorpion man ghost may come and find THEM.  Note that it may be a little disoriented in the new body, perhaps will try to sting with its non existent tail.  It ought not to have the PC's skills -  and you can define what the scorpion ghost's skills were. 

And the episode will underline the high-stakes nature of spirit combat for future adventures.

 

 

[Ryan Kent]

19 hours ago, jajagappa said:

I had a similar situation in one of my games not too long ago where the asst shaman got possessed by a Thanatari Mad Head ghost.  The PC's had to tie him up and carry him along.  They had to find ways to give him sustenance (luckily encountered a dwarf who was restocking a remote supply depot and got some useful cans of semi-liquid "food"), but also find someone who could exorcise the ghost.  In this case, they ended up in Tink where Forang Farosh, the EWF survivor, was able to invoke an exorcism. 

The problem with a Discorporation, if you were to allow it, is that it will take the asst shaman's spirit altogether out of the body and leave the ghost in sole possession. Effectively, the asst shaman has now traded places with the ghost.  And since the body is still "living", albeit with a different soul, the displaced asst shaman is probably in a race against Time to avoid traveling the Path of Silence to the Underworld.  The shaman's spirit would have to use Spirit Travel to try to find companions, or navigate the Spirit World for aid, etc.  I'd allow it though in the spirit of MGF.

An alternate is to keep the asst shaman's spirit trapped in the body with the ghost dominantly possessing it.  The body might now be driven into action by the ghost, perhaps even seeking out and attacking the companions.  Or it might lapse into some catatonic state.  An option in this case is to have the asst shaman enter into a dream state.  It's effectively some part of the Spirit World, too.  I might randomly roll a Rune to determine where in the Spirit/Dream World they are.  What they may have to do is effectively quest through the Dream World to find the dreams of their companions, or find some spiritual tool, and lead them back/return to the dreaming shaman's possessed body. 

If he was somehow able to cast Discorporate (maybe with a Special success on the required meditate roll to account for being stuck in a corner of the possessed body), wouldn't he be able to immediately enter into spirit combat to regain possession of his body?

I suppose an attempt at Divine Intervention is always an option.

Perhaps the best is to see if he is okay with being a passive observer of the game for a while or maybe play a new PC until the whole mess gets sorted out.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

2 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

Well it may not be MGF for that particular player, but for the rest of the party it may be a great exciting quest.  For the player this may be an important episode of character development

Slightly different situation, but my Yanafal Lunar PC was "lost on the Spirit Plane" after an unfortunate encounter with a tough spirit.  The other PCs quested to find her, and, being a Lunar Quest, they went by the Sea of Chaos.  One particularly Chaos-tolerant PC said "let's see if we can summon Fiona from there".  The GM asked me, privately, if I was o.k. with that, and I said, well, she's not around to object, and yes, it's (barely) o.k. with me.  So my PC came out, Illuminated, and very conflicted, as she was formerly quite skeptical about the Lunar use of Chaos.

An unforgettable, super dramatic episode of character development. 

[HreshtIronBorne]

We had spmething sorta similar where my Humakti PC got hit with a Soul Waste Curse from a certain shaman/priest of Thed. After rolling what my GM assured was a nearly mathematically impossible series of rolls and having his soul completely dissolved away the other PCs had to HeroQuest to get him back. They eventually recovered him from the Void after an epic journey across the HeroPlane. He returned deeply conflicted and illuminated after his recontruction and had his soul bound into a suit or Iron Armor and was everafter Hresht the Iron-man. 

[Shiningbrow]

RQ has always had character death as a very real possibility, and this is a very good example of the dangers inherent in the world...

So, what would a scorpionman ghost actually try to do? Suicide the body? Do something incredibly reckless (effectively suiciding)? Obviously something very Chaotic...  probably violent.

Don't hold back. The above-mentioned (by other posters) learning experiences aren't actually for the characters, but the *Players*, so they'll carry over in their next incarnations.

[jajagappa]

15 hours ago, Ryan Kent said:

If he was somehow able to cast Discorporate (maybe with a Special success on the required meditate roll to account for being stuck in a corner of the possessed body), wouldn't he be able to immediately enter into spirit combat to regain possession of his body?

I suppose an attempt at Divine Intervention is always an option.

Perhaps the best is to see if he is okay with being a passive observer of the game for a while or maybe play a new PC until the whole mess gets sorted out.

If he can succeed in Discorporating, there are three options:

1) attempt to regain his body through Spirit Combat - however, the fact that he lost in Spirit Combat means his MP's were at 0, and he may not have recovered most/all when attempting to Discorporate;

2) put spirit near his body, but low in MP's - allow spirit to go seek help from either his companions (do they "kill" the body to rid it of the ghost? bind his spirit into a crystal to "save" it? something else?), or from some other nearby spirit, e.g. a dryad, a night hag, etc. (bargain for help in return for some favor); or

3) the Discorporation doesn't put him near his body.  One option here would be to have a successful Spirit Travel roll to reach and contact his shaman to come and rescue him.  Another is that he is in the Spirit Home of some entity - Grandmother Spider, or some important spirit of his shamanic tradition - and must bargain for aid.  The spirit helps him return to his body, and drives out the ghost, but now there is a task they are oathbound to undertake (or perhaps have also had to take on some taboo).

[Ali the Helering]

Put him on a leash and use him for comic &/or disastrously inappropriate effect.  😁

[French Desperate WindChild]

9 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

So, what would a scorpionman ghost actually try to do? Suicide the body? Do something incredibly reckless (effectively suiciding)? Obviously something very Chaotic...  probably violent.

Easy : find a nest, be eaten by the queen, regain a scorpionman body

 

just a question of time

[Ryan Kent]

10 hours ago, jajagappa said:

If he can succeed in Discorporating, there are three options:

1) attempt to regain his body through Spirit Combat - however, the fact that he lost in Spirit Combat means his MP's were at 0, and he may not have recovered most/all when attempting to Discorporate;

2) put spirit near his body, but low in MP's - allow spirit to go seek help from either his companions (do they "kill" the body to rid it of the ghost? bind his spirit into a crystal to "save" it? something else?), or from some other nearby spirit, e.g. a dryad, a night hag, etc. (bargain for help in return for some favor); or

3) the Discorporation doesn't put him near his body.  One option here would be to have a successful Spirit Travel roll to reach and contact his shaman to come and rescue him.  Another is that he is in the Spirit Home of some entity - Grandmother Spider, or some important spirit of his shamanic tradition - and must bargain for aid.  The spirit helps him return to his body, and drives out the ghost, but now there is a task they are oathbound to undertake (or perhaps have also had to take on some taboo).

The funny thing here is that the assistant shaman had about 17 MP remaining when he rolled 00 on the spirit combat roll and then rolled 00 on the spirit combat fumble table thereby surrendering to the much weaker scorpion man spirit even though he had tons of MP left.  so if he is able to get back into spirit combat with the 7 POW scorpion man spirit possessing his body it will be anti-climactic.  Maybe gives up all his MP as part of the surrender?

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Ryan Kent said:

so if he is able to get back into spirit combat with the 7 POW scorpion man spirit possessing his body it will be anti-climactic.  Maybe gives up all his MP as part of the surrender?

By surrendering, he clearly let the scorpionman spirit into his body.  Now, here's another possible option.  Have a look at p.370 of the core rules regarding Dominant and Covert possession.  Instead of having the spirit dominantly possess the body like a ghost, make it a type of Covert possession.  Both are present and both striving for control of the body.  When the PC fails certain roles (maybe when he fails his Primary Rune or succumbs to a Fear roll or fumbles some type of skill roll), the scorpionman takes over.  This could manifest in a few different ways, but one option would be like some of the Bagog rune spells - his arms could transform into pincers, or he sprouts extra scorpion legs down his body.  Or at that point, the scorpionman randomly attacks the closest person at that point.  Or some combination.  And each time it happens, there might be an accumulating chance (+1% each time) that the scorpionman wins out or that the PC gains a Chaos Taint (or perhaps gains the Chaos Taint just by being possessed).

Taking this approach would allow you to keep the PC active, but worried about what might manifest, and perhaps desirous of finding a shaman to exorcise the spirit before something worse happens.

[dumuzid]

double-fumbling to this piddly scorpionman spirit and getting it cohabiting with their soul should definitely result in a few pips of Chaos rune

[Akhôrahil]

29 minutes ago, dumuzid said:

double-fumbling to this piddly scorpionman spirit and getting it cohabiting with their soul should definitely result in a few pips of Chaos rune

Although perhaps only until it gets expelled? Could still be seriously bad news when the Storm Bulls show up.

[dumuzid]

19 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Although perhaps only until it gets expelled? Could still be seriously bad news when the Storm Bulls show up.

Depends on the nature of the expulsion.  If they go with @jajagappa's very compelling idea about making it a covert possession, there's a potential here for the assistant shaman to consume or metabolize the parasitic graft of the scorpionman spirit, and gain some of its Chaos power in the process.  This may even be the spirit that becomes the assistant shaman's fetch during the shaman trials

 

e: conversely, depending on the assistant's spirit and cult affiliations this struggle may be a process of purification that cleanses the scorpionman spirit of its taint

Edited December 5, 2021 by dumuzid

[Shiningbrow]

56 minutes ago, dumuzid said:

double-fumbling to this piddly scorpionman spirit and getting it cohabiting with their soul should definitely result in a few pips of Chaos rune

Seems rather obvious to me that there were no "fumbles" involved... They clearly decided to go the quick power route by becoming Chaotic...

 

 

😁😁😁

[Shiningbrow]

9 minutes ago, dumuzid said:

This may even be the spirit that becomes the assistant shaman's fetch during the shaman trials

This sounds like earlier versions of RQ. Current version has the Fetch being the other part of yourself, not a separate spirit.

[Alex]

2 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

This sounds like earlier versions of RQ. Current version has the Fetch being the other part of yourself, not a separate spirit.

Either side of the game-mechanical details and surrounding flavour text, I've generally assumed that different cultures and traditions may see this differently.  And the more "mystical" viewpoint might be along the lines of "... and aren't those really the same thing, anyway?  *sagenod*"

Bit of an eyeopener to learn that it's a chaos-arachnid, but live and learn!

3 hours ago, dumuzid said:

double-fumbling to this piddly scorpionman spirit and getting it cohabiting with their soul should definitely result in a few pips of Chaos rune

Kinda seems a bit rough that you might get tainted with Chaos entirely from bad rolls.  I know Greg seemed to go back-and-forth on whether Permanent Taint and Inevitable Soul Destruction(TM) was something that only happened due to wilful consorting with chaos, or was more in the Stuff Happens realm, but just from a fumble-table result seems especially unsatisfying.

5 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Instead of having the spirit dominantly possess the body like a ghost, make it a type of Covert possession.  Both are present and both striving for control of the body.

Incomplete dominant possession!  To mix the genetic and spiritualist metaphors.  Kinda cool idea.  Could be the sort of thing a player could have a certain horrific fun with, channeling their Dr Strangelove/All of Me/Venom scenery-chewing chops.

On 12/3/2021 at 9:37 PM, Rodney Dangerduck said:

So my PC came out, Illuminated, and very conflicted, as she was formerly quite skeptical about the Lunar use of Chaos.

I'm reminded of an Alastair Reynolds line about a character who was highly skeptical about the capabilities of a certain type of AI...  but nuanced their views when they ended up as exactly that sort of AI...

[Darius West]

On 12/3/2021 at 9:30 AM, Ryan Kent said:

Not sure having the group try and find him and then tie him up and then try and locate a shaman is MGF.

If you don't want the players to have to do this, why not give them the option of having the morokanth bounty hunter  Bor-bor the Fat show ups and promise to take care of it for them for half of the Assistant Shaman's usual ransom (125L), and is willing to start for a down-payment of 25L ?  They succeed and come back a few days later saying they have the Assistant shaman, and want the rest of their pay or they will sell the Assistant shaman into slavery to make up the difference, even offering to top up the other characters if they get over 100L in the deal, because they are honest business-morokanths.

[Baron Wulfraed]

11 hours ago, Darius West said:

because they are honest business-morokanths.

Why am I seeing later revision Ferengi all of a sudden? 🤯

[Ryan Kent]

The group tracked him down and captured him and kept him tied up in Apple Lane while they went to Hillhaven and found a shaman to exorcise him.  After they captured him we did the trip to Hillhaven and negotiations with the shaman in storytelling mode.  I wanted them to learn what to do when you have troubles with possession and where to find shamans/kolating, but keep the game from being boring for the player whose PC was possessed.