'Real Life' Table/House Rules

[SevenSistersOfVinga]

2 hours ago, Eff said:

The Passion rules had to be largely junked after my player and I agreed that they made very little ontological sense as a conscious invocation. They also wanted to know why Rune values going above 80% meant regular episodes of mind control, so that's also still in negotiation. 

And here I was thinking that I have to limit skills if they are not tied to a passion. How do you have Olympic level skill if you don't care. How do you maintain/obtain the magic of the gods if your spend your time gambling what you stole from a grave. 

 

I'm not saying that I will ask for it but I would love to see a correlation between passion/obsession and those skills/traits that were obtained pushing the boundaries of human behavior. Is like "yes, I have a masters degree but like ... whatever I never cared about the topic"

[Shiningbrow]

13 hours ago, SevenSistersOfVinga said:

"yes, I have a masters degree but like ... whatever I never cared about the topic"

Ummm - that would be me 🤪 2 master's degrees, in fact... nad I didn't really care too much about either.

(I did them to improve job opportunities - and the second mostly because I could get credits from the first - and it sounds good on my CV).

[Shiningbrow]

On 3/24/2022 at 12:59 AM, svensson said:

Do you guys have real-world experiences you bring to your tables? I'm curious to see what you do and what you think of all this.

You stink!

Badly!!

And you're covered in mud and filth and other crap...

(granted, that's pretty much the same in most small villages, but if you want to go into more civilised places, you'd better clean up! And, you've probably only got 1 set of clothes while you're out adventuring...).

[svensson]

4 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

You stink!

Badly!!

And you're covered in mud and filth and other crap...

(granted, that's pretty much the same in most small villages, but if you want to go into more civilised places, you'd better clean up! And, you've probably only got 1 set of clothes while you're out adventuring...).

Ab-frikkin'-so-lutely. If you have to go see the Clan Ring... BATHE FIRST!

Edited March 25, 2022 by svensson

[svensson]

17 hours ago, SevenSistersOfVinga said:

And here I was thinking that I have to limit skills if they are not tied to a passion. How do you have Olympic level skill if you don't care. How do you maintain/obtain the magic of the gods if your spend your time gambling what you stole from a grave. 

 

I'm not saying that I will ask for it but I would love to see a correlation between passion/obsession and those skills/traits that were obtained pushing the boundaries of human behavior. Is like "yes, I have a masters degree but like ... whatever I never cared about the topic"

@Eff started a whole topic on this stuff, 3S. It's in this same 'RuneQuest' sub-forum.

[Jim Rickel]

I go by the Charlie Brown rule for playing.  Don't talk about Politics, Religion, or the Great Pumpkin during games at my house.  In game version of these are fine.  I also don't like people taking off their shoes in my house, but I am sort of a weirdo.

[soltakss]

On 3/24/2022 at 2:05 PM, Kloster said:

Napoleon's army was the first one since centuries to move more than 5 km per day just because of this.

I love the story that baguettes are the size they are because a soldier in Napoleon's army could store one in each of thigh pockets in their trousers, so carrying a day's rations.

 

[Akhôrahil]

On 3/24/2022 at 3:05 PM, Kloster said:

Yes. Especially for a large group of people (an army). Napoleon's army was the first one since centuries to move more than 5 km per day just because of this.

Particularly impressive as I hear they marched on their stomachs, which seems a difficult way to go about it.

[Oldskolgmr]

23 hours ago, Kloster said:

In fact, it was quite high. Louis XIV's armies were moving around 4km per day on the average during campaigns (according to Vauban), including all those activities. Napoleon's armies were around 10 km per day on the average, and this was a all time high since the end of the roman empire (whose average was, iirc, around 30 km per day). That does not mean an army can not move faster, but that means that to go faster, you need to bring everything with you, and you need extra people just to take care for the extra work, or you need roman 20 years veterans that do everything themselves. I frankly have no idea of how fast macedonian or mycenian armies were moving strategically.

I am a complete historical novice. I am very curious if others (or Kloster) could provide more information on why the Romans were able to move so far? I see the implication that there was no supply chain, and I would appreciate more information. (And perhaps some sources for more reading).

Thank you.

[svensson]

3 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Particularly impressive as I hear they marched on their stomachs, which seems a difficult way to go about it.

Beats the heck outta getting shot in the head!

[Photo of Pvt. Jacob Miller, Co. K 9th Indiana Vol. Inf'y - - yes, he took a .58 cal. Minie ball to the forehead AND LIVED]

[Bill the barbarian]

9 minutes ago, svensson said:

[Photo of Pvt. Jacob Miller, Co. K 9th Indiana Vol. Inf'y - - yes, he took a .58 cal. Minie ball to the forehead AND LIVED]

proof that you don’t need a hole in your head to live in Indiana, but...
Thankyekindky,I’llseemyselfout.

[svensson]

16 hours ago, Badder said:

I am a complete historical novice. I am very curious if others (or Kloster) could provide more information on why the Romans were able to move so far? I see the implication that there was no supply chain, and I would appreciate more information. (And perhaps some sources for more reading).

Thank you.

OK, first things first...

You have to divide the 'Roman Legions' into three general groups, a] the old Republican Manipular Legions, b] the Late Republic /Early Imperial Marian Cohortal Legions, and c] the late Roman 'Debased' Legions. There are finer gradiations of this, but these are the broad general strokes.

The Manipular Legions were Roman citizens who owned enough property to outfit themselves. They were good solid armies, but were based on the freehold farmer serving in short campaigns between planting and harvest. This broke down as the Republic staggered towards empire one province at a time. The troops were required to stay overseas for longer and longer periods, and eventually a class of professional soldier arose who could barely afford his own gear but was so skilled at fighting that various tax schemes were created to keep him on the rolls. These armies were good fighters, but because they drew a minimal salary in addition to plunder, discipline could be a problem. They had better march discipline than any other army they faced, but lousy by any reasonable professional standard. Each soldier often brought his own slave to do camp chores, for example, and that doubled a legion's food and water requirements with no fighting benefit whatsoever.

The Marian Legion was the first professional, fully paid army in history. By 'fully paid', I mean that their equipment was paid for by the State, their pay was in cash money not tax remittances, as was their food, clothing, and other support. By this time in Roman history [roughly 100 BC], the free Roman farmer was largely a thing of the past. Nobles were buying up farms to build great estates worked by slaves, often forcibly turning out the farmers that held the land with spurious writs of defaulting on taxes. Furthermore, several poor commanders had utterly denuded Italy of manpower just as the German invasions arose. Gaius Marius, seven times Consul of Rome, forced a measure through the Senate allowing the lowest levels of the Roman Citizens to be mobilized for 25 year enlistments in the Legions. These men were wholly professionals and could be placed under military discipline that a Republican legionnaire would have rebelled against.

When the Marian Legions were not on active campaign, they were used as another pair of hands to do public works for the State. Much of those public works was to build paved roads. Between the discipline imposed on these men and the roads they built, they could cover distances previously unheard of. 15 miles /30 km a day was not unheard of including building their overnight fortifications at the end of that march.

The Debased Legions were often draftees from nobles' estates [including men who sought to avoid service by cutting off a thumb!], foreign mercenaries, and other odds-and-sods. They had the traditions of the legions, but by this time [say, after 300 AD or so] Roman society was so corrupt and debased that the former societal virtues that created the legion tradition were long gone.

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by svensson

[svensson]

7 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

proof that you don’t need a hole in your head to live in Indiana, but...
Thankyekindky,I’llseemyselfout.

I'd still take it over Illinois, but... lol!

[svensson]

12 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Ummm - that would be me 🤪 2 master's degrees, in fact... nad I didn't really care too much about either.

(I did them to improve job opportunities - and the second mostly because I could get credits from the first - and it sounds good on my CV).

Hey, the school motto for every university's History Department is 'You want fries with that?'

And 'Howling In The Wilderness' is song of our people....

[Shiningbrow]

4 hours ago, svensson said:

Hey, the school motto for every university's History Department is 'You want fries with that?'

And 'Howling In The Wilderness' is song of our people....

My B.A. is in Philosophy... double major...

[Richard S.]

8 hours ago, Badder said:

I am a complete historical novice. I am very curious if others (or Kloster) could provide more information on why the Romans were able to move so far? I see the implication that there was no supply chain, and I would appreciate more information. (And perhaps some sources for more reading).

Thank you.

I believe the romans did have a fairly good supply chain at some point, which was another thing that gave them an advantage over some of their neighbors alongside the aforementioned roads.

[Kloster]

13 hours ago, svensson said:

building their overnight fortifications at the end of that march.

And for that, they were carrying everything needed to build the camp, including tents, altars and the (wooden) walls.

13 hours ago, svensson said:

The Marian Legion was the first professional, fully paid army in history. By 'fully paid', I mean that their equipment was paid for by the State, their pay was in cash money not tax remittances, as was their food, clothing, and other support. By this time in Roman history [roughly 100 BC], the free Roman farmer was largely a thing of the past. Nobles were buying up farms to build great estates worked by slaves, often forcibly turning out the farmers that held the land with spurious writs of defaulting on taxes. Furthermore, several poor commanders had utterly denuded Italy of manpower just as the German invasions arose. Gaius Marius, seven times Consul of Rome, forced a measure through the Senate allowing the lowest levels of the Roman Citizens to be mobilized for 25 year enlistments in the Legions. These men were wholly professionals and could be placed under military discipline that a Republican legionnaire would have rebelled against.

Yes, the 30 km are for the (Marian) late republic/early empire legions: highly trained, well payed professionals, with good roads, fine tune logistics.

[Kloster]

18 hours ago, soltakss said:

I love the story that baguettes are the size they are because a soldier in Napoleon's army could store one in each of thigh pockets in their trousers, so carrying a day's rations.

 

I've never heard this story before you told it (it does not mean it is false), but I very much like the idea.

[Oldskolgmr]

On 3/25/2022 at 3:58 PM, svensson said:

Beats the heck outta getting shot in the head!

[Photo of Pvt. Jacob Miller, Co. K 9th Indiana Vol. Inf'y - - yes, he took a .58 cal. Minie ball to the forehead AND LIVED]

Also note, an early Strongman (breaking chains, biting coins in half, bending nails, etc.) Joe Greenstein (a.k.a. 'The Mighty Atom') lived through being shot in the head. 

Joe Greenstein - Wikipedia

From Wikipedia: In 1914, The Houston Daily Post reported that a friend of Greenstein accidentally shot him in the middle of the forehead. The report states the bullet did not enter his skull, and "flattened out against his forehead".^[2] This experience sparked Greenstein's interest in the mental powers associated with strength, and he gradually developed an array of strongman feats.^[3]

Edited March 27, 2022 by Badder

[Oldskolgmr]

Thank you ssvenson, Richard S. and Kloster for the information. 

[svensson]

21 hours ago, Badder said:

Also note, an early Strongman (breaking chains, biting coins in half, bending nails, etc.) Joe Greenstein (a.k.a. 'The Mighty Atom') lived through being shot in the head. 

From Wikipedia: In 1914, The Houston Daily Post reported that a friend of Greenstein accidentally shot him in the middle of the forehead. The report states the bullet did not enter his skull, and "flattened out against his forehead".^[2] This experience sparked Greenstein's interest in the mental powers associated with strength, and he gradually developed an array of strongman feats.^[3]

And then there is story of Phineas Gage, railroad foreman. He took an iron tamping rod to skull [entering between his jaw and cheek and exiting through the top of the skull. AND LIVED.

wiki-link below.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage

Edited March 27, 2022 by svensson

[Shiningbrow]

4 hours ago, svensson said:

And then there is story of Phineas Gage, railroad foreman. He took an iron tamping rod to skull [entering between his jaw and cheek and exiting through the top of the skull. AND LIVED.

wiki-link below.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage

Was that from a dwarf weapon ?

[Darius West]

Wet rules...

If you get wet, double the weight of all your cloth items, like your bedroll, backpack and clothes until you are dry again.  Being wet adds 1SR to your attacks as you are slowed down and uncomfortable.  Wet light sources can't be lit.

Encumbrance...

You need pack animals.  They can carry half their weight, and 55% for mules.

Caves...

They are wet, dark, cramped, and muddy. 

Wet: as above. 

Dark obviously bring a light source and don't get it wet.

Cramped:  Use the "Black Broo of Dyskund" spelunking rules for having to use crawl spaces, by forcing the players to fail a SIZ (the bigger you are, the harder it is) roll against a particular SIZ of crawl space. 

Chicanes in tunnels will make long weapons hard, if not impossible, to transport.  I let players make a weapon skill roll, with a penalty for the turn. 

Crit: Transport the weapon without issue due to a clever angle. Can get it out again too. Spec:  Weapon negotiates the turn undamaged. Returning may not be so easy. Ordinary Success:  Weapon gets scraped for 1hp.  Fail within penalty margin:  Weapon gets scraped for 1d4hp.  Fail:  You don't even want to TRY negotiating your weapon thru that.  Fumble:  You try to negotiate the tunnel with your weapon, and now it is irrevocably stuck.  You will have to break it to remove it.

Muddy:  Add +5% to Fumble Chance.  Maneuvering in combat requires Dex x5 to avoid slipping over and falling prone.  If mud is deep, it may require a Str x3 roll to make ordinary progress, otherwise 50%-75% speed penalty. 

 

[Squaredeal Sten]

8 hours ago, Darius West said:

Wet rules...

......

Muddy:  Add +5% to Fumble Chance.  Maneuvering in combat requires Dex x5 to avoid slipping over and falling prone.  If mud is deep, it may require a Str x3 roll to make ordinary progress, otherwise 50%-75% speed penalty. 

 

I like that last one. IMHO a little too complex, I'm gong to use it as

Muddy:  Add +5% to Fumble Chance.  Maneuvering in combat requires Dex x5 to avoid slipping over and falling prone.  Flat 50% speed penalty if mud is deep.

[Joerg]

TL:DR - experiences with overland hikes with equipment, bad footing, bad lighting.

During my solitary work stay in Northern Norway three decades ago, I used a sun-lit weekend night to experiment going on a camping trip in open terrain, packing all the useless stuff my characters carry around, including a heavier hatchet, a nylon tent, cooking gear, etc., and for maximum bulk and encumbrance my sports bow and a quiver of arrows, and set off without much other preparation.

The terrain was fairly rough, with bedrock covered by about 5 to 10 inch of spongy vegetation and soil, and following a water course did not mean that I had a level path, at least if I stayed out of the water. Also, beware of areas with bedrock going deeper down and the spongy layer getting quite mighty...

A modern trekking backpack and activated archery equipment don't go well together... Hiking with the bow at the ready also made the risk of damaging the gear when traversing slippery rock or other hindrances that can make you lose your balance more threatening economically.

Checking aerial photographs of the region, I managed to walk about 6 km away from the road as the bird flies (almost over to the next fjord, except that the valley way running mostly parallel to it) and return to my car in a matter of 12 hours, some sleep in the tent and a field-cooked soup included. On the ground, I would say that each single trip felt like 10-15 km, not counting a few minor detours for interesting vistas.

While the absolute height was less than 300 m, I had started from slightly above sea level and had to cross a few lesser ridges left at the bottom of the glacial carves, including two cases where I had to progress on all four, especially for the aforementioned vistas (without most of the baggage, but still bringing bow and arrows, and the hatchet, for the rpg experience).

As soon as I sat down in the car, my entire body began to ache badly, and I barely made it the few km home.

I have been doing hardly encumbered midsummer midnight dusk walks (which can still be fairly light here at 55° latitude) on farming ways and hiking treks to the next lake and back with 10-15 km and hardly any such consequences, both before and after that Norwegian experience. Without any artificial light, visibility was about the same as a full moon night over snow outside of tree cover, but under the much lusher tree cover (compared to the arctic savannah) it was already very hard to follow the narrow trample path alongside a waterway which I knew well from daytime walks. I would rule Yelmalio's Catseye to be of little use under those conditions.

For comparison, night walks north of the arctic circle in the deep of winter were fairly easy on the eye when there was snow cover, even with only less than half a  moon in the sky. Turns out our planet's rotational axis is more or less perpendicular to the plane formed by our moon's rotation around our common point of equilibrium, so that it appeared to rise and sink more or less the same amount regardles of the shenanigans of the sun. Walking to and from work in a rainy November was another of those total darkness experiences except for some widely spaced artifical lights after the sun failed to rise above the horizon - probably the darkest time of my life so far.

Little of that applies to Glorantha, where the sun follows a tropical path more or less directly overhead, and never anywhere near the southern horizon. With Lightfore, there is a constant light source about a quarter of our full moon's output in the sky, which doesn't help a bit in seriously cloudy nights but is nice to have in clear nights. Dawn and Dusk are red glows caused by the jumpers, and there is the northern jumper Kalikos spreading some lesser cold light around midnight. Then there is the geostationary red orb which passes off a varying amount of glow, not really useful for visual perception. Experiencing stuff in the real world doesn't mean that it is applicable in this specific setting.

Using a waxed garden torch to explore the underground ruins of a WW2 flak post (no longer extant) gave me another appreciation for how distracting a flickering source of light can be, especially if it remains at less than arms length from you while you try to keep your footing on rubble.

Moving directly against a rising or setting sun is a joy I get to experience twice thanks to Daylight Saving Time, and that is another serious impairment to visual intake of information of your surroundings, but I find that closing my eyes most of the time while relying on the relative positions of songbirds allows me to stay on path pretty well for abot 20 meters until I reluctantly open an eye to scan for new obstacles. Away from the main traffic noise, it is possible to hear even an electric car coming and bypassing you.

 

Talking about spelunking or dungeoneering - natural caves don't usually come with level grounds unless full of sediment. The caves I have vsited were inside chalky karst or gypsum keuper, and other than man-made enty tunnels into the keuper cave, The artificial caves with a flat bottom you could dance a waltz on exist only in low budget SF and fantasy TV shows like the original Star Trek, and remained in use in Next Generation. Probably mostly for the benefit of the film crew off-screen.

Man-made tunnels tend to have smoother bottoms, at least if the rocks they were carved out allow such smoothing, or otherwise fine rubble makes up a bottom layer. Larger rubble makes progress about as unsteady and painful as across the see-weed overgrown big pebbles that make up half of the Baltic Sea and Förde coast, one of the joys of eroding glacial deposits with rounded stones between a quarter and twice the size of a human skull. Try moving quickly across that, or similar rubble remaining from a hang-slide leading up a cliff.