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No sailor profession ?


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This kind of surprised me, we have a Ship handling skill - which implies ships to handle.....which rather implies sailors to sail said ships. The opening has occurred, there's islands and coastlines galore.

But no sailor profession......

We do have cults for Dormal and maybe Diros coming up in the Gods of Glorantha supplement but that sounds as though it might be eye wateringly expensive at least in print format. So maybe we might get that profession there.

But it does seem like a strange omission.

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54 minutes ago, Agentorange said:

This kind of surprised me, we have a Ship handling skill - which implies ships to handle.....which rather implies sailors to sail said ships. The opening has occurred, there's islands and coastlines galore.

But no sailor profession......

We do have cults for Dormal and maybe Diros coming up in the Gods of Glorantha supplement but that sounds as though it might be eye wateringly expensive at least in print format. So maybe we might get that profession there.

But it does seem like a strange omission.

You have to consider the 6 Homelands from the core book - all largely focused on inland, not seafaring.  Esrolia is the only exception, but even there the background events concentrate on the landward-facing actions, so no particular need to include Sailor there in an already full book.

As attention turns towards the Holy Country, I'd expect to see more seafaring-related events included for character background as well as a Sailor occupation.

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So, modify Fisher. It's not that big a deal.

They couldn't put every single possible Bronze Age occupation in the book. You'll notice there aren't any 'Oracles', for example. You just either make one up [and the skills if necessary] or modify an occupation to suit your needs.

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56 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

You have to consider the 6 Homelands from the core book - all largely focused on inland, not seafaring.  Esrolia is the only exception, but even there the background events concentrate on the landward-facing actions, so no particular need to include Sailor there in an already full book.

As attention turns towards the Holy Country, I'd expect to see more seafaring-related events included for character background as well as a Sailor occupation.

yeah, you're probably right. the focus is on inland stuff at the moment as you say as other supplements come out we'll probably see expanded background professions including sailor. As Svensson says  I can always make one up.

Mind you that means I'd have to write up new skills like: Navigation, Do Pirate Accent....

Which would mean I'd have to do a Pirate profession, and sea monsters.

before you know it I'll have written an entire book.......😄😆

Edited by Agentorange
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Yes, the ways have apparently been Opened... But as I recall getting "dinged" when I made some comments, somewhere, it may not be widely known and many ship masters are still relying upon Dormal cultists for safe passage whether needed or not.

After all, if you are in charge of a merchanter, would you /really/ risk passage without Dormal's rites just because the Boat Planet seems to have returned?

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2 hours ago, Agentorange said:

Mind you that means I'd have to write up new skills like: Navigation, Do Pirate Accent....

You forgot Speak to Parrots...

(Navigation can likely be covered by Celestial Lore.  Sea Lore likely encompasses knowledge of the many currents and the weather patterns.)

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6 hours ago, svensson said:

So, modify Fisher. It's not that big a deal.

They couldn't put every single possible Bronze Age occupation in the book. You'll notice there aren't any 'Oracles', for example. You just either make one up [and the skills if necessary] or modify an occupation to suit your needs.

You're right they couldn't put every Bronze age occupation in the book. it just seemed odd there there was a Ship handling Skill , which after all is directly related to sailing and no corresponding profession as it were.

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4 hours ago, jajagappa said:

You forgot Speak to Parrots...

(Navigation can likely be covered by Celestial Lore.  Sea Lore likely encompasses knowledge of the many currents and the weather patterns.)

At present there's no Sea Lore either....

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I am not sure that there should be a sailor profession because... there are so many different specialities than any "One generic" profession will provide more disagreement than agreement so from my perspective, if I want :

 

a fisher or sailor in a little ship ? use fisher

a whale fisher ? use hunter, replace hide by boat, track by swim

a sailor in a bigger ship: fisher, replace river lore by sea lore (or local sea lore)

a ugly pirate ? use bandit (replace animal / plant by sea / celestial lore; survival by swim; track by survival - yeah once alone in an island you need survival 10%, not 30%)

a romantic pirate or sea army ? use warrior cavalry (heavy or light), replace ride by boat

a navigator / second ? use scribe, replace bureaucracy by celestial lore, read/write own language by craft [map] or something like that, library use by boat

a captain of a big ship ? use merchant, replace ride by boat and manage household by orate (I would advice to get manage household as personal skill however)

you may disagree with some points of course, but in all cases, it is not possible (my opinion) to create one and only one profession to cover all activities. And at the end of the days they are the same activities on land and on sea, just you need to swim and a boat when on land you need to walk and a mount.

 

 

3 hours ago, Agentorange said:

At present there's no Sea Lore either....

p 178: "Several common Lores are listed below. Others may be created with the gamemaster’s approval"

use it, or consider it as an home land lore (mirror sea lore, etc..) the difference with river is river is part of a homeland, when a sea is a region by itself

 

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My guess.... based on a sailor of the southern coast of Genertela.

Sailor Profession
Sailors are found in the sea ports of the coast, and in the ports of the larger inland lakes such as Lake Felster in Ralios. They live by working aboard ship, either warships or merchant vessels, sailing between the greater and lesser ports of the southern coast.
Homelands: many sailors have wandered from inland, but their most common homelands are Esrolia, Rightarm Islands, Heortland, Maniria, Seshnela, and Teshnos. Sailors from further away may be encountered, especially at Nochet, Karse, Handra, and Noloswal.
Occupation Skills: Craft (Boat) or Shiphandling +15%, Craft Wood +10%, Cult Lore +15%, Devise +5%, Meditate +5%, Open Seas +10%, Sea Lore +10%, Speak (Boatspeech) +5%, Swim +10%, and Worship +20%.
Standard of Living: Poor
Base Income: 60L
Cults: Dormal, Diros.
Favored Passions: Loyalty (ship)
Ransom: 200L
Equipment: Cultural weapons, tools, 30m rope, 60L in goods. A rower will have their leather or sheepskin cushion.

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2 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

My guess.... based on a sailor of the southern coast of Genertela.

...
Occupation Skills: Craft (Boat) or Shiphandling +15%, Craft Wood +10%, Cult Lore +15%, Devise +5%, Meditate +5%, Open Seas +10%, Sea Lore +10%, Speak (Boatspeech) +5%, Swim +10%, and Worship +20%.

Occupations should have one or more primary skills in bold-italic that is used to determine income, and it's nearly always a +30% skill (the only exception being Priest). Pirates of the East Isles gives Shiphandling +30%.

Edited by PhilHibbs
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2 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Occupations should have one or more primary skills in bold-italic that is used to determine income, and it's nearly always a +30% skill (the only exception being Priest). Pirates of the East Isles gives Shiphandling +30%.

I've just been and ordered POTEI from drivethru...given the discussion here it seemed rude not to. And it looks good as well. 👍

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17 hours ago, Agentorange said:

At present there's no Sea Lore either....

As it says in the Core book: "There are many kinds of Lore, each being a specialized body of Knowledge. Each Lore skill must be learned separately and allows the adventurer to remember pertinent facts within its purview. Use a given Lore skill to analyze or identify clues, make logical suppositions, and to recall information about the specialty. Many Lores require further specialization, which must be learned separately. Homeland Lore, for example, must be learned separately for each region of Glorantha, such as Sartar, Esrolia, Prax, the Lunar Heartlands, etc. Adventurers that gain similar lore about different regions or species will have to separate their lore into specialties, keeping track of their percentile chance for each. Several common Lores are listed below. Others may be created with the gamemaster’s approval."

And proceeds to note River Lore: "This Lore skill represents knowledge of river ecology. It combines knowledge of geology, physical effects, animals, and plants, and gives information not only about the normal attributes of the river, but also concerning the effects on the ecology from outside changes. It works equally well with rivers in any land."

It is not a difficult stretch to add Sea Lore. 

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6 hours ago, jajagappa said:

It is not a difficult stretch to add Sea Lore. 

Indeed, I suspect we'll see something official at some point. Glorantha is chock full of island chains and groups, long stretches of coastline, navigable rivers and so on. plenty of room for interesting supplements.

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21 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

I am not sure that there should be a sailor profession because... there are so many different specialities than any "One generic" profession will provide more disagreement than agreement so from my perspective, if I want :

 

a fisher or sailor in a little ship ? use fisher

a whale fisher ? use hunter, replace hide by boat, track by swim

a sailor in a bigger ship: fisher, replace river lore by sea lore (or local sea lore)

a ugly pirate ? use bandit (replace animal / plant by sea / celestial lore; survival by swim; track by survival - yeah once alone in an island you need survival 10%, not 30%)

a romantic pirate or sea army ? use warrior cavalry (heavy or light), replace ride by boat

a navigator / second ? use scribe, replace bureaucracy by celestial lore, read/write own language by craft [map] or something like that, library use by boat

a captain of a big ship ? use merchant, replace ride by boat and manage household by orate (I would advice to get manage household as personal skill however)

you may disagree with some points of course, but in all cases, it is not possible (my opinion) to create one and only one profession to cover all activities. And at the end of the days they are the same activities on land and on sea, just you need to swim and a boat when on land you need to walk and a mount.

 

 

p 178: "Several common Lores are listed below. Others may be created with the gamemaster’s approval"

use it, or consider it as an home land lore (mirror sea lore, etc..) the difference with river is river is part of a homeland, when a sea is a region by itself

 

True-ish.

I think, more to the point, the GM needs to be somewhat flexible when it comes to occupations (and, sometimes, homeland) skills, so that they can be moved around a bit.

One other obvious thing I'd be flexible on is the Hyaloring Triarty in Sartar - they ride (and raise) horses much more than other Sartarites, so should they be stuck at the 5% that the rest are at? (probably not as high as Praxians and Grazelanders - but certainly more than the rest of their Orlanthi bretheren).

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9 hours ago, jajagappa said:

It is not a difficult stretch to add Sea Lore. 

At a guess:

Sea Lore (00)
This Lore skill represents knowledge of the waters, its moods and some understanding of its inhabitants and ecology, including animals and plants. It also permits the adventurer making a successful roll to understand the signs apparent in the sea and sky, to judge the conditions of the currents, waves, tides, and to a lesser degree the weather as it pertains to sailing. It works equally well in any sea or ocean.
 

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Lore proliferation (or indeed skill proliferation) should be avoided unless you are a GM who enjoys character impotence or you allow some cross-skill starting bonus or situative bonus. 20% bonus from a successful augment don't really give you any feeling of competence if your skill lingers in the teens.

Navigation as a knowledge skill with a check box might be the better solution.

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Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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Oh for Magasta's and Dormal's freaking scaly sakes, people....

Make. One. Up.

You need make up three skills:

- Navigation = How to get from point A to point B using the tools of your culture at sea

- Sea Lore = Tides, currents, obstacles to navigation [reefs, Sargassos, etc.], and folklore of the sea

- Shiphandling = the actual physical work necessary to sail a ship

You'll need knowledge of Celestial Lore as well. Knowledge of Craft [Wood], Climbing, and Swimming are a bonus.

There. I just did 85% of the job.

Pick two cultural weapons [one melee, one missile]. Pick one cult [PROTIP: it's Dormal] and skills therefore [see above]. Make up the Open Seas Sorcery spell.

There. I just did the rest of it.

It took me 10 minutes, including editing.

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I can’t help thinking that if the core rulebook gave you a Sailor profession, the next “strange omission” you’d highlight would be that there aren’t any ship rules, or naval combat rules, or sea monsters / mermen in the Bestiary, or a wide range of Sea cults… and so it goes.

(Unless you want to play a sailor who sticks to dry land, of course. Let us know)

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2 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

I can’t help thinking that if the core rulebook gave you a Sailor profession, the next “strange omission” you’d highlight would be that there aren’t any ship rules, or naval combat rules, or sea monsters / mermen in the Bestiary, or a wide range of Sea cults… and so it goes.

(Unless you want to play a sailor who sticks to dry land, of course. Let us know)

THANK YOU.

And it isn't as if The Sea [islands, currents, tides, reefs, mythology, cults, folklore, ship rules, ship combat rules, cultural rules regarding which culture knows what about The Sea] isn't another whole freaking book all by itself. Or anything.

Really, everyone, can we all stop picking apart what isn't in the Core Rulebook? There is just ONE thing I'd like to be different in the Core Rulebook. I wish all the maps were more legible. That's it.

Edited by svensson
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