Lodril in Sartar?

[Gallowglass]

I'm about to start playing a Lodrili PC in an upcoming game. He's from Caladraland, but the game will take place in Sartar, at least initially. I've been meaning to ask about Lodril (Veskarthen's) cult presence in Sartar. I vaguely remember Jeff posting something about Lodril having a few worshipers in Sartar, and maybe a shrine or temple in Boldhome. I also know that Quivin mountain is a son of Lodril (and maybe an inactive volcano?). Anything else important I'm missing? 

[Erol of Backford]

There would be some sort of shrine at the Sun Dome. Obviously there a temple in Notchet but its a ways off. In the Backford Aeolian Campaign there was a good amount of Lodri discussion as well but more focused on the Print, a bit south. There was also mention of Agmori pilgrims traveling through to Vent from Prax which I thought was interesting.

 

"Every Volcano is a Holy Place to Lodril and would have a Temple of some sort. Similarly, Caladra & Aurelian would have temples at most Volcanoes.

Beneath the Shadow Plateau is another Holy Place for the Lodril Cult, and the Trolls would have a Temple to Lodril the Servant, or Lodril in Chains, but it probably isn't a Great Temple.

The Footprint is another Holy Place to Lodril, being where the Sky Spear thrust itself into Krarsht. I doubt if there is a Temple there, though."

Are there any active volcanoes in Sartar?

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, Gallowglass said:

I also know that Quivin mountain is a son of Lodril (and maybe an inactive volcano?). Anything else important I'm missing? 

That's the main piece.  Otherwise, Lodril can be seen as a Husband-Protector of Ernalda (so you might have a shrine to him in the Earth temple), but his children, particularly Mahome and Gustbran, are the fire deities found in Sartar.

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Are there any active volcanoes in Sartar?

No, you need to go to Caladraland for active volcanoes.

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

There would be some sort of shrine at the Sun Dome.

Not necessarily.  Lodril was Yelm's wayward brother, but not important for the Sun Dome.  As with Sartar, Mahome and Gustbran would have more importance for the hearth fire and the forge fire.

 

[Joerg]

20 hours ago, jajagappa said:

23 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

There would be some sort of shrine at the Sun Dome.

Not necessarily.  Lodril was Yelm's wayward brother, but not important for the Sun Dome.  As with Sartar, Mahome and Gustbran would have more importance for the hearth fire and the forge fire.

There is still the possibility for Lodril as a plow god, at least amongst those Pelorian "immigrants" working the slave manors or building the Enstalos tribe. But that aspect is well covered by Lodril as husband-protector or father of Ernalda (or both) and might be at home in the Ernalda temples and shrines.

[AlHazred]

I believe Lodril in Sartar/Heortland is basically Gustbran, culticly speaking. Vestkarthen is the "unworshipped" entity, Gustbran is the "worshipped" entity.

[Erol of Backford]

6 hours ago, AlHazred said:

I believe Lodril in Sartar/Heortland is basically Gustbran

Would this be similar to Yelmalio/Elmal depending on location or do we consider the low fires totally sperate from Lodril always?

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

do we consider the low fires totally sperate from Lodril always?

Where Lodril temples exist, the Lowfires would be depicted within those.  But in places where Lodril is not represented, expect shrines to Gustbran particularly (your local redsmiths) as being the primary Fire cult (Mahome generally subsumed within the Earth temples in context with hearth and home).

[Jeff]

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

Where Lodril temples exist, the Lowfires would be depicted within those.  But in places where Lodril is not represented, expect shrines to Gustbran particularly (your local redsmiths) as being the primary Fire cult (Mahome generally subsumed within the Earth temples in context with hearth and home).

Or Oakfed. His cult might be small, but he is often the most powerful Fire spirit around.

[Nick Brooke]

On 10/10/2022 at 7:55 PM, jajagappa said:

Lodril was Yelm's wayward brother, but not important for the Sun Dome.  As with Sartar, Mahome and Gustbran would have more importance for the hearth fire and the forge fire.

I concur. In my Glorantha, the Sun Domers would tell stories about that lazy peasant Uncle Lodril, who is always led astray by his base appetites and screws things up; they don't worship him, though, because he's a lazy peasant who always screws things up. (Like our no-good neighbours, but very unlike us)

Similarly, they tell stories about that aloof ascetic priestly mystical Uncle Dayzatar, who is too far unworldly for his own good; they don't worship him, though, because he's an aloof ascetic type, far too unworldly for his own good. (Like those irritating civilian Light Priests and Acolytes at the Temple, but very unlike us)

I won't tell you the sort of stories they tell about Father Yelm, because Old Man Goldbreath wouldn't approve. Let's just say he's a stuck-up noble, pumped up with ancestral birthrights, who doesn't appreciate what it's like to be a soldier in the ranks. (I'm talking about Old Man Goldbreath here, of course. Praise Yelm!)

[AlHazred]

16 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Would this be similar to Yelmalio/Elmal depending on location or do we consider the low fires totally sperate from Lodril always?

In my mind, it's not a question of if we consider them totally separate, it's how the cultists in-universe think. And I could see schismatics emphasizing different aspects depending on what the political climate is of the area they are in. In Sartar, I think a priest pushing Gustbran worship will have fewer doctrinal issues than one pushing Lodril, or some Vestkarthen thing -- the only Vestkarthen story most Sartarites will have heard is one where he's a jerk Uncle to Orlanth.

Gustbran in my games is popular with the occasional foreign trader or non-enemy visitor -- followers of Mahome or Oakfed can worship at his shrines (quietly, and without making a spectacle), as can Lodril followers from further North.

[Jeff]

7 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

I concur. In my Glorantha, the Sun Domers would tell stories about that lazy peasant Uncle Lodril, who is always led astray by his base appetites and screws things up; they don't worship him, though, because he's a lazy peasant who always screws things up. (Like our no-good neighbours, but very unlike us)

Similarly, they tell stories about that aloof ascetic priestly mystical Uncle Dayzatar, who is too far unworldly for his own good; they don't worship him, though, because he's an aloof ascetic type, far too unworldly for his own good. (Like those irritating civilian Light Priests and Acolytes at the Temple, but very unlike us)

I won't tell you the sort of stories they tell about Father Yelm, because Old Man Goldbreath wouldn't approve. Let's just say he's a stuck-up noble, pumped up with ancestral birthrights, who doesn't appreciate what it's like to be a soldier in the ranks. (I'm talking about Old Man Goldbreath here, of course. Praise Yelm!)

Old Uncle Lodril is the lazy, destructive father of those useful Low Fires - Mahome the Hearth Fire, Gustbran the Work Fire, and Oakfed the Sacred Fire. Thank Yelmalio that they are nothing like their father!

I think everyone knows Lodril stories, even if he gets no cult in Dragon Pass (except where there are volcanoes perhaps). Lodril is deeply involved in the myths of Asrelia, a comic rival of Orlanth (who gets depicted as a fat red-faced drunken fool whose phallus drags on the ground), and is the father of Ernalda and Maran Gor.

[Jose]

2 hours ago, Jeff said:

Old Uncle Lodril is the lazy, destructive father of those useful Low Fires - Mahome the Hearth Fire, Gustbran the Work Fire, and Oakfed the Sacred Fire. Thank Yelmalio that they are nothing like their father!

I think everyone knows Lodril stories, even if he gets no cult in Dragon Pass (except where there are volcanoes perhaps). Lodril is deeply involved in the myths of Asrelia, a comic rival of Orlanth (who gets depicted as a fat red-faced drunken fool whose phallus drags on the ground), and is the father of Ernalda and Maran Gor.

So, that is how Maran got her disorderly nature... Nice! 

[Sir_Godspeed]

3 hours ago, Jeff said:

is the father of Ernalda

Somehow I never picked up that this is his role in the Orlanthi pantheon, I've always seen her as sorta sprung out of Asrelia through parthenogenesis or something, but then maybe the Earth temples just like to downplay that aspect in art since it's usually not hugely relevant to them?

(I guess it mirrors the Entekosiad, come to think of it, which I realize is probably a distant concern, lol).

[Erol of Backford]

44 minutes ago, Jose said:

So, that is how Maran got her disorderly nature... Nice! 

Dirtbag good for nothing uncle, wait no, that's the sister? Like father like son daughter? I suppose there is some resemblance? Lodri doesn't look that bad actually to me?

 

[Eff]

58 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Somehow I never picked up that this is his role in the Orlanthi pantheon, I've always seen her as sorta sprung out of Asrelia through parthenogenesis or something, but then maybe the Earth temples just like to downplay that aspect in art since it's usually not hugely relevant to them?

(I guess it mirrors the Entekosiad, come to think of it, which I realize is probably a distant concern, lol).

Reproduction through non-heterosexual means? In Glorantha???

[Gallowglass]

4 hours ago, Jeff said:

a fat red-faced drunken fool whose phallus drags on the ground

That’s fairly close to my character concept, although he only claims it’s that big.

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Lodri doesn't look that bad actually to me?

Well, keep in mind that what he holds in his hands is a polite representation of the real object... 😉 

[Erol of Backford]

14 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

the real object

A 2 handed mace? I thought he liked spears?

[Jose]

5 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

A 2 handed mace? I thought he liked spears?

What do you think is Tada's Cudgel? 😬

[Richard S.]

5 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

A 2 handed mace? I thought he liked spears?

It is a spear, the head's just supposed to be Lodril's old volcano rune I think. Or well, something resembling it.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Richard S.

[Joerg]

Isn't what Lodril is holding the Dara Happan wet farmer mattock?

[mfbrandi]

2 hours ago, Joerg said:

Isn't what Lodril is holding the Dara Happan wet farmer mattock?

I had certainly assumed it was some kind of agricultural implement, but if this is a god whose erect penis drags along the ground, I anticipate images of Lodril with his phallus replaced by/depicted as a plough — or is even that too much to hope for?

Are there many Gloranthan cults who are actively against reproduction (of people)? Those who conceive the growing of cereals in other than animal terms?

[Gallowglass]

2 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

Are there many Gloranthan cults who are actively against reproduction (of people)?

I think the Mostali would prefer that people are just made by hand, like a really nice vase.

[svensson]

I really don't see Lodril being worshiped in Sartar at all.

My reasons are this:

- Sartar is an Orlanthi culture.

- Orlanth does an excellent job of embodying the spirit of the Orlanthi male imperative no matter their social class, carl, crafter, thane, chief, or king.

- Eurmal more than adequately represents the rebellious aspect for those Orlanthi inclined to it.

- Orlanthi have access to Fire magics through Elmal and the individual Lowfire subcults. It's not as good as the access granted to Fire/Sky Yelmite cults, but so what? Yelmites don't have access to much Air/Storm magic either. It evens out.

All that being said, I just don't see the need for Lodril in regions where there is a strong Orlanthi presence. All his aspects are completely covered in Orlanthi/Hendriking/Sartarite culture. What's more, I see Lodril as a culturally Dara Happan and Esrolian god, as foreign to Hendriking/Sartarite ways as a Praxian or Carmanian. Lastly, even the Lunar Occupation probably didn't spread Lodril very much. The VAST majority of Lunars in Sartar were adherents to the Red Goddess and her pantheon, of which Lodril isn't a member.

If you desperately want to run a Lodril in Sartar, then run a Pelorian peasant who deserted his regiment after the Lunars conscripted him. He'd be in the same social position as Vostor, but with a vastly inferior magical/spiritual position because he'll have much less access to his primary cult. In fact, a Waha worshiper would be in a better position, as the center of Waha worship is MUCH closer than any Village Priest or even a shrine of Lodril.

Edited October 16, 2022 by svensson

[mfbrandi]

1 hour ago, Gallowglass said:

made by hand, like a really nice vase

Or made by machine … like a perfect vase.