What would Mostalis trade for ?

[Erol of Backford]

They are Godlearner constructs or from that time. Maybe dwarves also have stuffed animals and wear them as clothing?

   

On 4/23/2023 at 2:15 AM, Darius West said:

You raise an interesting point about what Mostali wear Erol.  I imagine their ordinary clothes might be a bit like this...

I am still laughing at this Mr. West.

 

[EricW]

On 4/23/2023 at 8:15 AM, Darius West said:

You raise an interesting point about what Mostali wear Erol.  I imagine their ordinary clothes might be a bit like this...

While Mostali lingerie might be a bit more like...

I wonder which trickster convinced them they were a tailor?

[svensson]

On 4/21/2023 at 9:28 AM, Zit said:

I'm wondering what would a trade with Mostali look like. In Griffin Mountain, they trade bronze weapon against food, but what else could be exchanged with them ?

Replying to the OP

Cloth, Rope, Animal Products [glues, hair, feathers, leather, etc.], Plant Products [fibers, wicks, herbs, etc.], Gems [not every gemstone is everywhere, after all], Sorcerous Grimoires, Sorcery Matrices, Alchemical Ingredients...

Yes, it's true that many of the resources can be substituted with metalwork [chain for rope, etc.]. But Mostali of the Openhandist Heresy are comparatively few in number. Trade makes up for resources they don't have and prevents them having to maintain too many members of any given caste just to make disposable items.

[Joerg]

On 4/21/2023 at 6:28 PM, Zit said:

I'm wondering what would a trade with Mostali look like. In Griffin Mountain, they trade bronze weapon against food, but what else could be exchanged with them ?

I suppose that Mostali might fairly often trade some of their lesser artifacts or metals for trouble to their foes, accepting in trade whatever is offered in addition to some request that harms aldryami and/or trolls..

[Erol of Backford]

Some sort of real-world god-learner project going on... and someone has one in their yard. I am sure dwarves would kill and steal for this iron jolanti which they would claim was made by them. Yes they would also say that their paten was infringed upon when this copper fabric smoking jacket was shown on the runway so they'd kill or steal that as well.

  

[EricW]

On 4/26/2023 at 2:34 AM, Erol of Backford said:

Some sort of real-world god-learner project going on... and someone has one in their yard. I am sure dwarves would kill and steal for this iron jolanti which they would claim was made by them. Yes they would also say that their paten was infringed upon when this copper fabric smoking jacket was shown on the runway so they'd kill or steal that as well.

  

Clanking City Mechamagic will be the go in our world, as soon as ChatGPT finishes designing it. Obviously the cheap version you'll have to wait for the Google video advertisement to finish playing before you can use your mechanically augmented strength to punch someone out in a bar fight. 

[DrGoth]

On 4/26/2023 at 2:34 AM, Erol of Backford said:

Some sort of real-world god-learner project going on... and someone has one in their yard. I am sure dwarves would kill and steal for this iron jolanti which they would claim was made by them. Yes they would also say that their paten was infringed upon when this copper fabric smoking jacket was shown on the runway so they'd kill or steal that as well.

  

Or send a gremlin

[Erol of Backford]

14 hours ago, EricW said:

your mechanically augmented strength to punch someone out in a bar fight

Too funny, buddha palm!

[Erol of Backford]

Just thinking, would Dwarves grow mushrooms or would they trade for them with the elves and trollkin at the Munchrooms?

Also made me wonder why dwarves were not also an option for assistance in that scenario as if dwarves say, love pickled mushrooms and their supply was being threatened by some trolls, well then...

[jajagappa]

15 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

would Dwarves grow mushrooms or would they trade for them with the elves and trollkin at the Munchrooms?

Growth!!!! Blasphemy! Send in the Gobblers to devour this monstrous, abhorrent aberration!

No, they would not grow them. Mushrooms are the domain of the black elves - well detailed now in the JC supplement The Voralans

Dwarfs are the children of Maker, elves of Grower - the hostility does not end. 

That is not to say the dwarfs might not send out "harvesters" to collect every instance that had infiltrated a given cavern or the like, and then distill and reduce the collected trash into something they can subsequently can for "real" food. But never, ever "grown". 😉 

[davecake]

On 4/22/2023 at 7:25 PM, Erol of Backford said:

Since we are so programed to think of dwarves as real world Irish or Scottish it might be more interesting to have then more exotic, like Mongolian, etc. at least for me... maybe Polynesian?

Mostali are Mostali in culture culture, which is weird and not very human at all. But those Gold Mostali assigned to deal with outsiders such as humans (and other races seldom meet any others) do adopt some customs, including speech and clothing, that mimic local cultures. Of course, this is just done as a superficial utilitarian thing to make their work easier - in reality they are Mostali to the core. This may cross over to some extent to any Mostali expected to deal with non-Mostali at all - eg Iron Mostali might make armor styles superficially similar to local human heavy infantry, as this is believed to be more intimidating and clearly indicate their threatening nature, and might learn some phrases that they believe to be useful such as intimidating battle cries and demands to surrender, often rote learned from (maybe centuries out of date) observation of local human armies. So Mostali encountered in the East Isles might seem Polynesian, in Teshnos Mongolian, elsewhere Irish or Scottish, or like dwarves from Viking stories (with the understanding that accents and turns of phrase are just metaphorical attempts to convey Gloranthan equivalents). The dwarves of Jords Eye that trade with the King of Imther will wear court dress from the time when the trade agreement was made. 

Of course, heretic Mostali can depart from this, with many castes possibly interacting with humans enough to imitate them among other castes (and without the orthodox Gold caste training/obsession with preserving Mostali cultural purity), and apostate dwarves, like the followers of Flintnail, having, by definition, already failed at maintaining pure Mostali culture.
The dwarves of Paris actually have begun to adopt many aspects of the local human culture - though in many cases by that they mean the Paris cults cultural practices that are, themselves, centuries outdated relics of the practices of the EWF. Think of Freemasonic rituals, with lots of symbolic robes and weirdness that is no longer understood, at least for formal occasions. But also having learned to use appropriate local materials as needed (eg Fintnail dwarves will make many working garments and light armor out of Praxian herd beast leather, while Orthodox Mostali would not).
And similarly for other dwarves that depart from the orthodox Mostali way - even when they really do adopt some human practices, it’s still often centuries out of date, they worked out what it should be once, and often pay little attention from then on unless there is a very good reason to change. 
 

On 4/23/2023 at 12:15 AM, Erol of Backford said:

Do dwarves do drag?

Unintentionally, frequently, as they barely understand the human concept of gender, and actually try to blank from their mind any real understanding of its sexual basis. 
Mostali lingerie would be hilarious - they would be trying to imitate what they think human lingerie is, and is for, as most Mostali fear and loathe and deny the very concept of sex and sexual attraction, including sexual dimorphism (they claim not to even notice it). Think bearded male Gold dwarves wearing lingerie to private one on one meetings, as this is observed human behaviour. And ignoring any sexual implications - until they absolutely cannot, at which point they react as if suffering Call of Cthulhu style SAN loss, such as catatonia

IMO the process of becoming a Diamond Dwarf is a magical process of trying to magically become a substitute True Mostali, at least in body. True Mostali have inorganic, made not born, bodies - though their bodies are also from the time before such inorganic material was made dead with the Death of Stone (metals are essentially sub-types of stone), so their bodies are not dead and inert, but can change their bodies freely into useful forms such as tools. Diamond Dwarves, though very deeply secret and sacred magical processes, transform to transform themselves into a limited copy of a True Mostali. They do change in other ways, such as losing the ability to ability to sexually reproduce, which in any case disgusts them deeply, and having no need to eat (but acquiring energy in other ways as needed). And a True Mostali is similar physically to a Diamond Dwarf, though also of Demi-godlike magical nature, such they are capable of performing magic that took Diamond Dwarves centuries to learn to perform flawlessly. 

(This not a surgical change! That’s a perversion from those vile God Learner weirdos! It’s a magical/alchemical change of their whole being! It involves many alchemical stages of purification, and other alchemical transformations, that require flawless performance of many complex and dangerous rituals. Solve et Coagula!)

On 4/22/2023 at 10:20 PM, soltakss said:

Clay Mostali (Dwarves) are definitely organic, being made with a healthy dollop of the Man Rune.

Only the True Mostali are inorganic.

[davecake]

Remember Mostali manufacturing and production of things isn’t like mundane purely physical manufacturing, or like science s we understand it, it is very magical, and particularly alchemical. They want things that are rich sources of some particular set of Runic and alchemical properties, or raw ingredients to create it. Particular relics of magical creatures, or things associated with a rune strongly. And remember that Mostali have made all sorts of adaptions over the centuries, learning new alchemy (black powder, antidotes to poisons, and also poisons, new servant races, magical potions ), alliances with others ( that are highly ritualized usually, and often require special objects as part of that ritual). They want alchemical ingredients like particular poisons, body parts of magical things, objects they believe they need for various ritual purposes, such as to demonstrate their power over particular subject peoples, or conquered spirits (or imagined power, maybe centuries out of date), weird things required for some necessary World Machine repair (such controlling a powerful unruly spirit, such as of some magical disaster, or restoring such a spirit to health if it is believed to be broken or injured), or to make some tool necessary for World Machine repair (a net for catching Passion Spirits, for example). Because damage to the world machine is not necessarily Mostali in origin, what is required to fix it may not be either - maybe they need some moon rock, or Tanian water ash, or similar exotic material. Or fragments of dead gods. 
Stories of dwarves creations in Norse mythology are good inspiration -  the magical chain that bound Ferris wolf, for example, was made by dwarves, and made from mountain roots, the beards of women, the sound of cats’ paws, the breath of fishes, birds’ saliva, and the sinews of bears. 

[Ali the Helering]

On 4/22/2023 at 12:25 PM, Erol of Backford said:

Since we are so programed to think of dwarves as real world Irish or Scottish

Personally I have always gone with the Borg.

[Darius West]

Just now, Ali the Helering said:

Personally I have always gone with the Borg.

I have always assumed Mostali were really Flat Effect deadpan, technical, numerical, monotone.   

[Darius West]

As to what Mostali will trade.  I think Mostali WILL trade for human food.  They will then take that lovely produce and grind it into a nutritious gray paste, then inject it in calorie measured doses into cans.  It tastes something like vomit, because they add "digestive accelerators" and  preservatives to it.  Humans CAN eat it, they just don't want to.

I think Mostali will trade for livestock and beasts of burden.  For all their technical achievements, I don't see many trains, so all those animals will be needed for carrying things around.

Mostali will happily trade for scrap metal, provided the price is right i.e. lower than their own finished goods.

Mostali will trade for timber, even if they don't need it due to their hatred for all things Aldryami.

Mostali will trade for trollish weapons and armour, in order to coax humans to kill trolls.

Mostali will trade for regulation sized barrels, sacks, crates and other storage containers, depending on quality.

Mostali don't make much rope.  It's not that they can't, they just don't.  They need it and will trade for it.  Similarly Mostali don't make much fabric and will trade for that too.

Mostali like to trade for alcohol.  They refine, concentrate and remove the alcohol for alchemical purposes, and drink the remaining juice.

Mostali don't have great carpenters, and so offering to create furniture for them is a good bet, provided they are clear about their specifications in human terms.

[Ali the Helering]

19 minutes ago, Darius West said:

I have always assumed Mostali were really Flat Effect deadpan, technical, numerical, monotone.   

Characterisation is futile

[Ynneadwraith]

Yeah my take on Mostali is that the things they want are primarily components they need to fix the world machine. I'm thinking a cross between the Collectors from Mass Effect (creepy stuff like '2 dozen sets of identical twins...nevermind what for'), the dwarves of norse mythology (breath of fishes, roots of mountains etc.), and a little bit fae (just your name please sir).

Also agreed that they'd likely just take what they need, but I expect there would be a lot of things that they can't get themselves so would need to stoop to this 'trade' muck. Also like the idea that the mostali mainly trade when they want to give you something. Flips the assumption of trade on its head, and offers good narrative uses for mostali giving 'gifts' that benefit them but not you Trojan Horse style.

[David Scott]

On 4/22/2023 at 12:25 PM, Erol of Backford said:

Since we are so programed to think of dwarves as real world Irish or Scottish

Wut!

Here's the Mostali team from my 1652 ST Copper Caves adventure (click to enlarge):

 

[jajagappa]

Some items that the dwarfs in my campaign have wanted in trade:

• clay/dirt/sand - always of specific coloration (and never predictable which one they want)
• Feathers! - for transmuting into some Sky-related item
• Firewine? Or Mead! - Bottles of liquid light
• Stardust or Moondust - gathered from the edge of the glowline 
• Snake skins! - shed remains of dead earth
• Nail trimmings, crescent shaped! - touches of the Moon
• Human hair or a myriad collection of teeth - remnants of Grandfather Mortal
• Ink? - bottles of liquid darkness, prepared from tree galls?
• Unusual white wool - spun clouds (i.e. air)
• Human shadows - yes, they will literally cut off/detach your shadow from you

The dwarfs always describe such by Runic element and effect/use, never by an ordinary human word. They often have to consult huge translation dictionaries (often on copper plates) to state what they want.

[Ynneadwraith]

57 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

The dwarfs always describe such by Runic element and effect/use, never by an ordinary human word. They often have to consult huge translation dictionaries (often on copper plates) to state what they want.

Now that I love!

Mostali: Bring me moon crescents.

Human: ...huh?

Mostali: Moon crescents. Digital shields. Ten of them, departed from the whole periodically. Or twenty, I suppose, if you can reach them from your height. You rarely need them once departed. The trade is beneficial for us both.

Human: ...that's made it worse not better...

Mostali: This is the translated version. It is comprehensive. You should comprehend.

Edited January 10 by Ynneadwraith

[jajagappa]

23 minutes ago, Ynneadwraith said:

Mostali: Bring me moon crescents.

Human: ...huh?

Mostali: Moon crescents. Digital shields. Ten of them, departed from the whole periodically. Or twenty, I suppose, if you can reach them from your height. You rarely need them once departed. The trade is beneficial for us both.

Human: ...that's made it worse not better...

Mostali: This is the translated version. It is comprehensive. You should comprehend.

Exactly! 🙂 

In my game, one of the merchant characters decided the dwarfs wanted the hooves of cattle or horses and went dashing off to the butcher's quarter to procure those for trade. The dwarfs determined the delivery as acceptable/meeting the prescribed criteria.

[Erol of Backford]

23 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Dwarfs are the children of Maker, elves of Grower - the hostility does not end. 

They seem to get along well enough in Pavis, wait wasn't Pavis like half elven and his BFF was/is a dwarf?

[Erol of Backford]

16 hours ago, davecake said:

Mostali lingerie would be hilarious

 keep going back to this somehow. LOL

[Erol of Backford]

16 hours ago, davecake said:

True Mostali have inorganic, made not born, bodies - though their bodies are also from the time before such inorganic material was made dead with the Death of Stone (metals are essentially sub-types of stone), so their bodies are not dead and inert, but can change their bodies freely into useful forms such as tools.

Sound somehow like a book my daughter read a several years ago... dwarves seem to make golems in a way. 

[Erol of Backford]

15 hours ago, davecake said:

the sound of cats’ paws

or the shadow of the wind...