RuneQuest 3 Heal Wound divine spell

[icebrand]

After 15+ years of GMing RQ, i still have a pretty stupid question -- Does Heal Wounds (the divine spell) add SR to cast the spell based on the MP spent? Is it instant?
 

We always used it as an instant cast (because my players complained about it not being any better than spirit healing), but it has a higher cast chance, and it can be cast as high as you want (considering you have the MP for it) and has a slightly better chance (+2) to go past your target's countermagic, so i decided it takes time.

How do you play it?

[Runeblogger]

We didn't cast this spell much, as it meant resacrificing valuable POW. However, I would add the MRs of the MP points spent in healing HP. We also played that Heal spells could go through Countermagic.

[Joerg]

The MP spent definitely add to the strike rank - just like boosting the spell (in order to bypass Countermagic) or similar extra MP expenditures do. It is still better than Heal - you can do a Heal Wound 10 to restore a leg, chest or abdomen wound from -5 to +5.

[soltakss]

We played that it took no extra SRs to cast, as it is a Divine Magic spell.

It also makes it slightly better than Heal, which does cost SRs to cast.

It is good when stacked with Cure Chaos Wound, as that will provide all MPs for the spell, so cures wounds of any size.

 

[bturner]

One of the advantages of Heal Wound was availability - it was a common divine spell and thus available to a lot of folks whose cults didn't have convenient access to the spirit magic Heal. And as Joerg points out, it's just about the most efficient way for a rank-and-file soldier to become a single-shot healing specialist out there. I don't expect to get eviscerated often, but when I do I am much happier when I know that one of every four folks in the fyrd have sacrificed for a use of Heal Wound.

[icebrand]

i think the most raw approach is that it takes time (same with axe trance and similar spells) since there isnt a single instance in the game when MP spent are instant, AFAIK.

Also, we always ignored shield / countermagic / resists when casting "buffs" and heals, but that was a rule oversight that ramps the power of shield (it was by far the most widely prayed for spell in the campaign). Shield already gives 4 spirit points per divine point (as opposed to pretty much every other spell that gives 2) and that is balanced by having to spend more time powering beneficial spells to go through it.

[SDLeary]

8 hours ago, icebrand said:

After 15+ years of GMing RQ, i still have a pretty stupid question -- Does Heal Wounds (the divine spell) add SR to cast the spell based on the MP spent? Is it instant?
 

We always used it as an instant cast (because my players complained about it not being any better than spirit healing), but it has a higher cast chance, and it can be cast as high as you want (considering you have the MP for it) and has a slightly better chance (+2) to go past your target's countermagic, so i decided it takes time.

How do you play it?

Spirit and Sorcery added 1SR for each Magic Point. Divine Magic was cast on DEX SR, no add points for MP expenditure. 

SDLeary

[RosenMcStern]

The rules mention explicitly heal wound among the few exceptions to the instacast of divine magic, so it does take dex+MP sr to cast. Having lost an elf magic bow to a fumble because my vronkali failed to roll pow x5 to cast his heal 2 before the living weapon died on sr 10, I can assure you that no matter how many points of heal you know, you better have also heal wound.

[SDLeary]

5 hours ago, RosenMcStern said:

The rules mention explicitly heal wound among the few exceptions to the instacast of divine magic, so it does take dex+MP sr to cast. Having lost an elf magic bow to a fumble because my vronkali failed to roll pow x5 to cast his heal 2 before the living weapon died on sr 10, I can assure you that no matter how many points of heal you know, you better have also heal wound.

I'm not seeing this in the rules or errata (RQ3 Soft). It does state that MP are used to convert to HP, but not that this causes the Heal Wound spell to take any longer to cast. There is a part in the section on Boosting Spells on p.113 that states additional points to boost a spell would cause an increase in rank, but based on how the spell description is written, I would not consider the points sacrificed for HP to be boosting the spell. 

SDLeary

[RosenMcStern]

It is on page 49 in the Deluxe (softcover) edition, in the rules for SE during a melee round. It mentions "the occasional divine spell which uses Magic Points" and then cites the spell with the old name Heal Area, but it is clear that it is not referring to boosting but to the normal effect of that specific spell. And it states that it takes one extra SR per MP spent.

There is another reference in the generic procedure for spellcasting in the "Magic" chapter. It says that Divine spells that use MP add them to the number of SR used to cast them.

The only point where it is not mentioned explicitly is the Divine Magic chapter - but since it does not contradict what is written in the Combat and Basic Magic chapter, I think that it is made explicit that any MP spent causes one SR delay.

[SDLeary]

15 hours ago, RosenMcStern said:

It is on page 49 in the Deluxe (softcover) edition, in the rules for SE during a melee round. It mentions "the occasional divine spell which uses Magic Points" and then cites the spell with the old name Heal Area, but it is clear that it is not referring to boosting but to the normal effect of that specific spell. And it states that it takes one extra SR per MP spent.

There is another reference in the generic procedure for spellcasting in the "Magic" chapter. It says that Divine spells that use MP add them to the number of SR used to cast them.

The only point where it is not mentioned explicitly is the Divine Magic chapter - but since it does not contradict what is written in the Combat and Basic Magic chapter, I think that it is made explicit that any MP spent causes one SR delay.

Huh, and there it is. And nothing to counter it in the Errata. 

It appears to me an artifact of an earlier draft, though I could be seriously wrong about that. Even in the Chaosium RQ3 playtests I don't ever remember playing it that way.

Oh well, I'd still go by whats written in the Divine Magic chapter, though you could go anyway. YRQWV!

Now in my current view of Magic, I would turn it into a Ritual that would take one round per MP, but thats for a different thread! 

SDLeary

Edited January 19, 2016 by SDLeary

[styopa]

On 1/17/2016 at 10:35 AM, soltakss said:

We played that it took no extra SRs to cast, as it is a Divine Magic spell.

It also makes it slightly better than Heal, which does cost SRs to cast.

It is good when stacked with Cure Chaos Wound, as that will provide all MPs for the spell, so cures wounds of any size.

 

Yep, this is how we ruled it: It was a Divine Magic spell, essentially, ergo 1sr.  It enables essentially a 'flash heal' but of course, costs a divine spell.

[Pentallion]

yep, divine spells go off on your Dex SR regardless of cost.  This is because you sacrifice permanent power for them and the effect is granted at the time of the sacrifice.  It's what separated Divine from battle magic and sorcery.

[dionglenproffit@gmail.com]

On ‎18‎/‎01‎/‎2016 at 4:10 AM, icebrand said:

After 15+ years of GMing RQ, i still have a pretty stupid question -- Does Heal Wounds (the divine spell) add SR to cast the spell based on the MP spent? Is it instant?
 

We always used it as an instant cast (because my players complained about it not being any better than spirit healing), but it has a higher cast chance, and it can be cast as high as you want (considering you have the MP for it) and has a slightly better chance (+2) to go past your target's countermagic, so i decided it takes time.

How do you play it?

We always played it as a 1SR divine spell that allowed you to burst heal a location. Divine Magic rules in RQ3 classifies it as instant and doesn't specify any boosting time penalty so it would be cast at the dex sr of the character. This is the reason why a divine magic healer was so badass in a campaign if they could recharge, ie sanctify and pray or attend a shrine. The divine spells were only ever needed in the instant of battle when shit goes horribly wrong where the spirit magic was the back up that meant someone had to usually spend a round o get there a second round to heal and then join the fray again in the 3rd round.

[MJ Sadique]

On 13/02/2016 at 12:19 AM, Pentallion said:

yep, divine spells go off on your Dex SR regardless of cost.  This is because you sacrifice permanent power for them and the effect is granted at the time of the sacrifice.  It's what separated Divine from battle magic and sorcery.

All wrong... In Introduction to Magic / Common Magical Procedures and Concepts / Spells you have the answer to the question. And it's not in the Divine Magic chapter so most of people forgot or miss it ! The paragraph is just before spirit magic and is resume in Spell Strike Rank Table.

RQ3 Deluxe or french Chapter "Spell Casting During Melee" states :
An adventurer casting spells during a melee round uses the standard strike rank procedure ... To determine the strike rank in which a spell takes effect add the spell cost in magic points plus the readiness of the spell caster plus the strike rank of the caster. The result is the number of strike ranks that it will take the caster to loose the spell. This is summarized on the Spell Strike Rank Table, below. Divine spells add no spell cost unless magic points are included in the casting.

To resume IN RQ3, Spell SR = DEX.MRA + MP + 3 (if surprised)

PS : This rules is the Same in Avalon Hill 1984' english edition or Oriflam French Edition (the one I use)

[styopa]

On 1/17/2016 at 10:24 AM, Joerg said:

The MP spent definitely add to the strike rank - just like boosting the spell (in order to bypass Countermagic) or similar extra MP expenditures do. It is still better than Heal - you can do a Heal Wound 10 to restore a leg, chest or abdomen wound from -5 to +5.

Funny, I'd say "just as definitely" that it takes 1sr.

We're talking about a divine spell = 1 sr.  What's used to fuel it implies nothing about changing that, whether it's MP, blood, or the souls of virgins.

Otherwise, it sucks pretty bad as a divine spell.  

[Yelm's Light]

Zombie much?

[styopa]

1 hour ago, Yelm's Light said:

Zombie much?

It's an FRPG.  Zombies are a thing.

[Joerg]

19 hours ago, styopa said:

Funny, I'd say "just as definitely" that it takes 1sr.

We're talking about a divine spell = 1 sr.  What's used to fuel it implies nothing about changing that, whether it's MP, blood, or the souls of virgins.

Otherwise, it sucks pretty bad as a divine spell.  

I still think that it is way better than lugging around a Heal 6 spirit spell which is pretty much impossible to obtain if you use the spirit summoning and spirit combat rules of RQ3. Unlimited (or limited only by the wound) conversion of magic points into hit points.

I would allow the spell to stop dying at 1 strike rank, but the healing to take effect at however many magic points poured into the spell afterwards. 

But then my RQ3 campaign game had a lousy POW gain history. That didn't detract from our gaming experience, though, it just made for a gritty game despite the presence of magic. A game of exploration rather than high magics.

If you come from a 1 point Divine Intervention spell as RQ2 had for priests, it sucks. But I never had those in my RQ experience, which is based on RQ3 and a playtest campaign in the 1990ies Adventures in Glorantha, and apart from Heal Body this was the best healing available on the market with spirit and divine magic.

Sorcerous healing (didn't have that in my long running RQ3 campaign game, which was based on/started off the RQ3 Viking box and played out in its own setting, which had about as much setting notes than boxed AH Glorantha had) or Dragonewt Pre-Healing (didn't have that, either) may change that.

I was the default GM in my two great campaign settings (one for a German game called Midgard, expanding snippets of their game world to a huge setting inheriting from various sources, and the other one RQ3 Vikings creating a world of its own, that time with "digital maps" created on an Atari ST) before I started playing on Glorantha in the mid-nineties. Both these settings allowed me to play as a player in spinoff-campaigns GMed by some of my players using that background. Most of my gaming experience as a player came from the "lets try this system for a short campaign" games in our regular rounds, or from convention gaming. At times I'm being a difficult player in those games, too, so it isn't just a "creator of the setting" effect.

[Pentallion]

On 12/27/2017 at 7:08 AM, MJ Sadique said:

All wrong... In Introduction to Magic / Common Magical Procedures and Concepts / Spells you have the answer to the question. And it's not in the Divine Magic chapter so most of people forgot or miss it ! The paragraph is just before spirit magic and is resume in Spell Strike Rank Table.

RQ3 Deluxe or french Chapter "Spell Casting During Melee" states :
An adventurer casting spells during a melee round uses the standard strike rank procedure ... To determine the strike rank in which a spell takes effect add the spell cost in magic points plus the readiness of the spell caster plus the strike rank of the caster. The result is the number of strike ranks that it will take the caster to loose the spell. This is summarized on the Spell Strike Rank Table, below. Divine spells add no spell cost unless magic points are included in the casting.

To resume IN RQ3, Spell SR = DEX.MRA + MP + 3 (if surprised)

PS : This rules is the Same in Avalon Hill 1984' english edition or Oriflam French Edition (the one I use)

Well, I stand corrected.  Let me rephrase my answer to say that it works that way in my glorantha because the RAW are lame