The Praxian Tradition

[David Scott]

Here's a new version. I mistakenly published a screenshot not an exported jpeg. I've also added a notes section.

[David Scott]

On 9/15/2019 at 12:46 AM, Qizilbashwoman said:

I'm very interested in the Oasis Peoples.

In what way?

[David Scott]

On 9/15/2019 at 4:45 AM, davecake said:

Helpwoman, which I don’t know much about

Helpwoman is Earth Witch, Helpwoman in this context is a Spirit society.

On 9/15/2019 at 4:53 AM, davecake said:

I’m a little surprised the Twin Stars are in the ‘has shamans’ category

Likewise the Twin Stars in this context is the spirit society not the spirit cult.

When the Lunars arrived in 1608, they brought with them sable riders from the Hungry Plateau who were a lost phratry of the sable tribe. They had a lunarised version of native spirit society that had shamans called the Twin Stars. The native version was called the Hidden Ancestor with no shamans. Contact between the two societies led to the shaman path being discovered/adopted by the native society, but not the lunarisation (so no lunar spirits, just the same local moon spirits). This led to the Hidden

When the lunar rule collapsed in Prax, the two conservative Sable phratries and to a lesser extent the neutral one led the genocidal attack on the two pro-lunar ones. Both phratries no longer exist as a result. Those who refused to give up their lunar ways were slain, those who did really had to prove themselves or die. The uninitiated and children were adopted into the other phratries. 

By 1627 the Twin Stars is now the name of the Hidden Ancestor as the ancestor isn't hidden and the shaman of the society now call the spirits the Twin Stars. The Seven Mothers wasn't completely eliminated either and still has a presence in all the tribes as the Moon Rune is just as common is Prax as it's always been. The Seven Mothers is part of the Twin Stars society in the sable tribe, it also has shamans. In the other tribes it's not as clear as this and the Seven Mothers is independent although many members worship the Twin Stars too.

[Qizilbashwoman]

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

In what way?

• there's so little detail on them, but they stick out like a sore thumb
• they live as agriculturalists
• they respect Eiritha, of course, and Waha, but they aren't Praxians; I want to know who they actively worship. presumably a lot of spirits

I don't know, they just... spark my interest!

[davecake]

 @David Scott Could you tell us a little more about the Many Friends? I asrnsume these are well known Spirit cults joined together into broader societies - but which ones. The Burners presumably Oakfed, for example, but what else? 

I also think it is interesting that the Lunars are linked to the all male Sunset society - I would have thought they'd be the least likely of the Praxian spirit societies to link to the Lunars. 

 

[davecake]

And thank you much for the info on the Sables and the Twin Stars. 

So it all goes back to Jannisors defeat, when the Twin Stars revealed themselves to the Hungry Plateau Sables. Cool. 

Edited September 16, 2019 by davecake

[David Scott]

40 minutes ago, davecake said:

 @David Scott Could you tell us a little more about the Many Friends? I asrnsume these are well known Spirit cults joined together into broader societies - but which ones. The Burners presumably Oakfed, for example, but what else?

It's straight from Nomad Gods with a few slight changes and additions from TOTRM 14,15 & 16.

The Burners - Spirits of Fire (RQG - The Lowfires but no Gustbran), headed by Oakfed.

The Sky Gazers - the rest of the Spirits of Fire, headed by Pole Star.

The Thirstless - Spirits of Water, headed by Zola Fel plus all of the Oases spirits.

The Shadow People - Spirits of Darkness, headed by Dark Eater (does include Mallia only when needed to be propitiated).

The Twin Stars - Themselves plus other Moon spirits (moonbroth, Redwood, Silver Deer).

The spirits of Air are part of Orlanth.

The Spirits of Earth are part of the Paps.

For those of you without Nomad Gods: https://www.chaosium.com/nomad-gods-rule-booklet-pdf/

Quote

I also think it is interesting that the Lunars are linked to the all male Sunset society - I would have thought they'd be the least likely of the Praxian spirit societies to link to the Lunars. 

Jakaleel (Moon, Darkness, and Death):

Quote

Her cult explores the diverse horrors and solaces contained in the secrets of Darkness in its many forms,

Sunset Society (Darkness):

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This spirit society practices the forbidden magic of the night. They accept only men, and those touched by nightmares and forbidden desires will be eventually drawn to their concealed meetings. Praxian mothers scare children with stories of their evil worship and foul sacrifices, but their wisdom comes from other, more potent, sources.

What self-respecting Jakaleel shaman wouldn't want to control this spirit cult... Who ever "they" are only accept men and shaman gender is often a fluid thing.

Edited September 16, 2019 by David Scott

[David Scott]

1 hour ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

• there's so little detail on them, but they stick out like a sore thumb
• they live as agriculturalists
• they respect Eiritha, of course, and Waha, but they aren't Praxians; I want to know who they actively worship. presumably a lot of spirits

I don't know, they just... spark my interest!

 

There is a clan at most established oases in Prax and the Wastes, not Biggle Stone, Daka’s Creek & Pairing Stone and Horngate has 2 clans, the Paps 3 and Feverlast 2, see the Guide for specifics.There's 80 or so transient oases in the Wastes (Last 3D6 seasons), each with about 100 people (about 4 families), 19.4k in total in 1627. Contrary to popular belief, the fertility of Prax is badly damaged, not destroyed (or nothing would grow), the Oasis People represent what's left of Ernalda's power in the region. At the Dawn there were very few of them huddled round the occasional oasis (maybe a few families and yes some were Tada's people), but the source of most of their population over the centuries has been escaped slaves from various sources including neighbouring lands and Praxians themselves and other lost people. 

Quote

Farmer (Oasis Folk only)

Oasis People practice horticulture (no ploughing), raising small crops of grains, roots, fruit trees and bushes as well as small animals.

Standard of Living: Poor.

Cults: Ernalda, Oasis spirit cults, 48 Old ones spirit cult, Three Bean Circus, Daka Fal, Ronance.

[Qizilbashwoman]

27 minutes ago, David Scott said:

There is a clan at most established oases in Prax and the Wastes, not Biggle Stone, Daka’s Creek & Pairing Stone and Horngate has 2 clans, the Paps 3 and Feverlast 2, see the Guide for specifics.There's 80 or so transient oases in the Wastes (Last 3D6 seasons), each with about 100 people (about 4 families), 19.4k in total in 1627. Contrary to popular belief, the fertility of Prax is badly damaged, not destroyed (or nothing would grow), the Oasis People represent what's left of Ernalda's power in the region. At the Dawn there were very few of them huddled round the occasional oasis (maybe a few families and yes some were Tada's people), but the source of most of their population over the centuries has been escaped slaves from various sources including neighbouring lands and Praxians themselves and other lost people. 

thanks! I'm also reading Nomad Gods now, which has details on things I didn't know about before (3-Bean, Ronance, etc.). I'd be interested in a campaign that worked on strengthening the Oases... think reforestation efforts + spirits.

[soltakss]

3 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

• there's so little detail on them, but they stick out like a sore thumb
• they live as agriculturalists
• they respect Eiritha, of course, and Waha, but they aren't Praxians; I want to know who they actively worship. presumably a lot of spirits

My take on the Oasis Folk is a little different to David's.

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

There is a clan at most established oases in Prax and the Wastes, not Biggle Stone, Daka’s Creek & Pairing Stone and Horngate has 2 clans, the Paps 3 and Feverlast 2, see the Guide for specifics.There's 80 or so transient oases in the Wastes (Last 3D6 seasons), each with about 100 people (about 4 families), 19.4k in total in 1627. Contrary to popular belief, the fertility of Prax is badly damaged, not destroyed (or nothing would grow), the Oasis People represent what's left of Ernalda's power in the region. At the Dawn there were very few of them huddled round the occasional oasis (maybe a few families and yes some were Tada's people), but the source of most of their population over the centuries has been escaped slaves from various sources including neighbouring lands and Praxians themselves and other lost people. 

For me, the oasis folk are the shattered remnants of Tada's People,  the original Earth Folk of Genert's Garden. They follow Genert's Ways, but Genert was destroyed in the Gods War, so their traditions are shattered and weak. I have them as having some Ernalda worship, but only as just another Earth Spirit. For me, they follow the Genert Path rather than the Ernalda Path.

As they were shattered, their beliefs and powers were shattered. This means that each oasis has its own powers, spirit cults and traditions. Each Oasis provides its people with enough to eat and drink and enough for nomads to take. This makes them look lazy, as they don't really do any farming, or if they do it is extra to what they need. if they stay true to their traditions, they will be protected and fed by their Oasis. If they do not, their Oasis will abandon them and they will become the slaves of Nomads or will be lost. Oasis Folk almost never travel, as they have all they need at their Oasis. They are seldom taken as slaves, as they are seen as lazy and are not much use outside their own Oasis.

If one of the Oasis Folk gets to visit another Oasis, they will find that the other Oasis has slightly different ways of doing what they do. The myths will be slightly different, some myths are shared, some are not known at the other Oasis and the other oasis has some myths which their own Oasis does not. The names of the Spirits contacted at each Oasis might be different, but they are essentially the same beings. A well-travelled Oasis Person who visits many oases will come to know that each Oasis knows a fraction of a whole and there is more to find out. 

When Tada was put to sleep, like Bagpuss his people went to sleep. that is why the Oasis Folk seem lazy, as they are half asleep. The people of Prax and Pavis are affected by a sleeping disease that makes them lethargic and can put them in a coma. The oasis folk are not affected by this. If someone tries to cure the Oasis Folk of their Sleeping Disease, it instead wakes them up form their slumber. No longer lazy and lethargic, no longer fogged and slow of mind, they are now active and bright and can begin to learn the secrets of the Oases.

That is my take on them, anyway.

Edited September 16, 2019 by soltakss

[Akhôrahil]

I believe the Chaos Society Pavis books connect the Oasis Peoples to the Green Age project of Pavis (both the founder and his successors). This makes for a potentially pretty potent mythical stratum.

[FlamingCatOfDeath]

On 3/3/2018 at 2:36 AM, David Scott said:

I'm using the figures from my Praxian cults spreadsheet. When I started working on Prax I needed to know the cults and spirit societies that made up their culture. Appendix C was very incomplete but was an excellent starting point. There are a couple of other assumptions you need to be aware of as well. Firstly when working with population numbers we assume that 50% are children, 25% are Men and 25% are women (unless like the Newtlings they are all one gender). So just using that on the 10K PJ, we get 2500 men and using the 6% number from CoP we get 150. I also needed to work out how individuals chose their cults, so for HQG I worked out the "Rune spread" for each tribe. This is the percentage of individuals with a particular dominant rune. We already know some of the dominants so this filled in the missing parts. An individual is likely to choose a cult with their dominant rune in it. Here's the High Llamas, Bison and Pol-Joni for comparison (all %):

Element Rune Spread
	High Llama		Bison		Pol Joni
The Empty	1		1		50
	M	F	M	F	M	F
Storm	10	2	94	2	75	5
Earth	2	10	2	94	5	75
Fire	1	1	1	1	5	5
Darkness	1	1	1	1	5	5
Water	85	85	1	1	5	5
Moon	1	1	1	1	5	5
check row %	100	100	100	100	100	100

 

 

What water cults do the the high lama have to go along with their affinity? Do they not have any and mostly go for condition rune cults instead?

[David Scott]

There's no overt water cults, except Zola Fel. As usual most are members of Waha & Eirtha. Some will be members of water orientated spirit cults: Dew Maid, Frog Woman, Lucky Star, Oases spirits (like Moonbroth), River Horse, and Zola Fel.

 

[Qizilbashwoman]

6 hours ago, David Scott said:

River Horse

ironically [emphasis mine]

[David Scott]

20 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

ironically [emphasis mine]

This is where Greek myth in Glorantha fails a bit. It should be something like serpent rider.

[g33k]

20 hours ago, David Scott said:

This is where Greek myth in Glorantha fails a bit. It should be something like serpent rider.

 

More seriously:  IMG, "water horse" is hippopotomus, not the mythical hippocampus.
And in all honesty, I think there's room for both "Water Horse" and "River Serpent" spirits!

 

[g33k]

9 hours ago, David Scott said:

There's no overt water cults, except Zola Fel...
... Oases spirits (like Moonbroth) ...

Aren't Oasis Spirits dual-rune, "Water + <X>"?

Generally  +  because that duality is the core of an oasis, but Moonbroth  +  

Some of the Hidden Greens might be  +   or   +  because of their "temporary reality" or "Otherworld" nature...
 

[David Scott]

11 hours ago, g33k said:

Aren't Oasis Spirits dual-rune, "Water + <X>"?

Generally  +  because that duality is the core of an oasis, but Moonbroth  + 

For QuestWorlds, I keep them simple - water is enough. They don't provide plant magic, that's for Ernalda. For RQG, spirit cults rarely have more than one rune (defined by their rune magic if they have any). Dew could be appropriate or unique spirit magic like Clean Water (variable), 1L per point.

11 hours ago, g33k said:

Some of the Hidden Greens might be  +   or   +  because of their "temporary reality" or "Otherworld" nature...

Hidden Greens are effectively spirit land that becomes corporate (Genius Loci). In QuestWorlds I have them with the Magic Rune. In RQG, I'd build them using RQB page 171 and give them the Solid Form spirit power (I use a SIZ of 1D4x10 square kilometres - 40 is one AAA hex). Spirit and Earth. They have their own spirit ecology, so If they have an oasis, that would have its own spirit. Magic-wise they can have rune magic, but I would suggest Earth based.

[David Scott]

12 hours ago, g33k said:

More seriously:  IMG, "water horse" is hippopotomus, not the mythical hippocampus.
And in all honesty, I think there's room for both "Water Horse" and "River Serpent" spirits!

I'm only going by the Nomad Gods counter:  and the RBM illo on page 75. But as usual your game can use what it wants.

[metcalph]

15 hours ago, David Scott said:

This is where Greek myth in Glorantha fails a bit. It should be something like serpent rider.

Given that the Waters are kinda hostile to Waha & Co., I doubt they feel the need to downplay River Horse's equine appearance.  

[Erol of Backford]

On 3/3/2017 at 5:59 AM, David Scott said:

Seolinthur's headless "remains" lie in the Krjalki Bog. They are a series of heavily polluted channels that are referred to as Seolinthur's Grave by members of the Thirstless spirit society. Seolinthur himself likely became gorp and other chaos that lives there. Nothing remains of him other than the "grave".

  

 

 

 

Where are these maps from Mr. Scott? I assume the dark brown the Krjalki Bog, they other map clip is of Praxian water? 

I am looking at a long term campaign goal after the PC's become River Voices, of course, where they would investigate how to find and or restore the head of Seolinthur. They encounter shaman's of the Thirstless Spirits and the Cleansed One and then quest to change Seolinthur back from her (?) chaotic transmutations which in turn could assist with bringing her back to life/partial life followed by even Genert (still looking at about 30 pages of entries on that and Soltakss' ideas posted before.

Regarding Genert, one of the parts that never broke away was Prax. It had better cohesion as it had the Great temple that is Eiritha, but it also had Zola Fel Zola Fel actively prevented Prax from breaking up he was at the edge of the void. 

I love the idea that if somehow through heroic means Seolinthur could be cleansed (do tricksters come and eat the bog?) and the head found and reunited, then similar to the Zola Fel then another portion of Genert could be brought back.

I am still working on how the Copper Sands would play in this or even the Eternal Battle? Who knows, the Plateau of Statues might have the head of Seolinthur on it?

Any suggestions are appreciated.

 

[David Scott]

17 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Where are these maps from Mr. Scott?

They are a single illustrator file with dozens of layers, based on Greg's original maps that I made for some HeroQuest materials I was working on.

17 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

I assume the dark brown the Krjalki Bog

Yes, the dark green are the Palace grasslands (good grazing), light green Toothstone Grass (1 in 2 years grazing), grey-green 1 in 4 years grazing. Brown is poor or no grazing.

17 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

they other map clip is of Praxian water?

It part of the catchments area map: https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/4141-prax-and-the-thousand-questions-about-the-place/page/13/#comment-85599

 

 

 

[Erol of Backford]

On 2/12/2023 at 12:47 PM, Erol of Backford said:

I am still working on how the Copper Sands would play in this or even the Eternal Battle? Who knows, the Plateau of Statues might have the head of Seolinthur on it?

Anyone have thoughts on how to find the head of Seolinthur, if nothing else via Hero Questing?

[Joerg]

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Anyone have thoughts on how to find the head of Seolinthur, if nothing else via Hero Questing?

Ask the River Horse? Since it can jump from oasis to oasis, it might be able to use a dead river's headwater, too. But you would have to protect your ride against whatever you jump into (which might be gorp).

[David Scott]

5 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Anyone have thoughts on how to find the head of Seolinthur, if nothing else via Hero Questing?

The "missing" head is effectively the fertility of the Erno Arkozal Grasslands (the yellow centre) which has the best grazing in the Wastes, the same as Sacred Ground in Prax. The Erno Arkozal Grasslands were the site of Genert's Throne. Seolinthur's Fall smashed the throne (a cool looking rock outcrop) with his head. It would of been the same as the other Palace grassland, were it not for this.