Sigh...

[soltakss]

16 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Hey, it doesn't have to be RQ3 if it's a Campaign Pack. The RQ2 boxed sets were superior to the RQ3 ones. But it the whole campaign setting plus multiple adventures and plot threads that I want-not one offs. 

You could use an RQG supplement quite easily with other versions of RQ.

Edited June 13, 2018 by soltakss

[Atgxtg]

28 minutes ago, soltakss said:

You could use an RQG supplement quite easily with other versions of RQ.

If I had any RQG supplements. But I'm hoping that we will get good ol' RQ stle campaign packs and not just separate, unrelated adventures.

[Beornvig]

23 hours ago, g33k said:

Honestly, I seldom run pre-published content.  Most of my games -- in any system -- are my own plotlines & NPCs.

I actually plan to depart from that habit & run quite a bit of the old stuff, as my current group has minimal experience of Glorantha.  I'll start with Apple Lane Date Palm Oasis where they impress the Duke's Man who hires them down to Ronegarth and thence into Borderlands campaign, and we''ll see if Pavis / Big Rubble goes next, or something else...

But frankly, if I had a bunch of Gloranthan grognards I wouldn't hesitate to create new material for them to adventure with.

 

I haven't run any pre-written content in years, and it's killing me.  And Balazar has become the place I love to hate.  It is not at all easy to develop adventure content there that doesn't set off some kind of powder keg in the region and mess up all the original source material, and in fact, that's exactly what ended up happening.  That weaselly Lunar in Elkoi with the silent picture villain mustache got shot in the face with a pistol by a quick-trigger-finger Mostali PC and that was it for most of my Elkoi source material.

23 hours ago, simonh said:

Having talked to Jeff at Eternalcon, Chaosium are very much aware of this and it’s a top priority for the team. However I think a supplement for RQ2 with extra stats for passions would sell a tiny fraction of the copies a supplement for an already published, best seller on Drivethru could command. It might be the best order for some of us, but it would be a commercial fumble - hit self in wallet for Chaosium.

The upcoming GM guide should have a ton of playable material to run and several other major projects were teased in the seminars, so I’m hopefull that the situation by the end of the year, or at least this time next year should look a lot different.

Well that's good, and maybe it would sell a fraction, but I'm concerned they will lose steam for any numbers of reasons, and those adventure packs will not be forthcoming.  It's an entirely separate need.

18 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Hey, it doesn't have to be RQ3 if it's a Campaign Pack. The RQ2 boxed sets were superior to the RQ3 ones. But it the whole campaign setting plus multiple adventures and plot threads that I want-not one offs. 

Amen.  They have set a standard for themselves with those RQ2 packs , especially Borderlands, which I find to be a perfect balance of background and adventures.  I'm not asking for another Pavis.  But a campaign arc I can build off that can be logically set in a popular area.  We're probably due for a good old fashioned Sartar one, and that would fit in with the "starting over" aspect of the new rules.  I can squeeze dozens of new/tertiary adventures out of one of those.  

Edited June 13, 2018 by Beornvig

[Madrona]

On 6/12/2018 at 12:51 PM, Beornvig said:

May I add a new grouping?  I'd like to complain about the fact that we're on the, what, seventh version of the rules, and yet I still don't see any relief for us GM's when it comes to new adventure content.  Not sourcebook content, but adventures we can use/adapt to our campaigns.

Honestly, lack of adventures has been kind of a problem. But it doesn't bother me. I tend to just mill through piles of random adventures, freebie adventures, or othersuch things, and then adapt them to whatever I'm playing. I've run CoC adventures so butchered to be unrecognizable for Dark Heresy. (Hey, a giant rusted metal insect like walking machine with a megacity on it is identical to a sleepy new England town if you squint long enough)
I even ran the absurd 3rd edition D&D 'pizza golem' miniadventure as part of that. The players were none the wiser.

Pick thematics out of something, and understand the systems well enough, adapt and adjust and reinterpret, and Hiro Protagonist and his Katana are just as viable Glorantha content as Sartar, Kingdom of Heroes.

You got great set pieces. It focuses on the Spirit World, a floating city of oceanic nomads in interconnected rafts, an ancient and mysterious tower. Chaos-Speech, Malian diseases combined with Lunar illumination, you got hideous rat-monsters as minions, even a Dwarven superweapon named Reason.

[styopa]

6 hours ago, Madrona said:

I even ran the absurd 3rd edition D&D 'pizza golem' miniadventure as part of that. The players were none the wiser.

Absurd it was, but it was the time my wife and daughters played with my sons and I, and they STILL remember it fondly as a wonderful time, even if the girls moved on to other things in their lives and (apparently) my wife hung up her gaming spurs some years ago.

We play this game with anthropomorphic DUCKS; I don't believe a magical pizza golem is outside any sort of Gloranthan norm, whatever that may be.

[Mugen]

On 6/12/2018 at 1:03 AM, styopa said:

Tier 2: issues with mechanics - less productively useful for Chaosium, but useful for other players to see alternatives to the mechanics presented.  The Runequest community, like most street orphans (and for kind of the same reasons over decades), has grown to be astonishingly flexible, resourceful, and creative...(...)

3) tier 3 is just bitching, complaining that the rules didn't include x idea, or y approach.  (...)

It's sometimes difficulty to differentiate tier 2 and tier 3. For instance, when I complain about RQG sorcery using mechanisms from RQ3, one can understand I'm complaining RQG is not based on Mythras' sorcery. Yet,  from my point of view, I'm complaining all of the various systems that have been done since 1984 (Sandy Petersen's, OpenQuest, RQ IV:AiG, Myhtras) and proposed interesting alternatives to the original rule, were not taken into account.

[Steve]

On 6/12/2018 at 8:51 PM, Beornvig said:

May I add a new grouping?  I'd like to complain about the fact that we're on the, what, seventh version of the rules, and yet I still don't see any relief for us GM's when it comes to new adventure content.  Not sourcebook content, but adventures we can use/adapt to our campaigns.  

 

They're coming. The GM's screen pack that's coming soon will have three adventures in it. There's also a scenarios book coming. And then later a Dragon pass campaign book. Plus I'm sure there's more coming. Chaosium have talked about the fact that the lack of playable content was a big downfall of RQ3 (until the Ken Rolston-led revival packs), and they're aiming to not make the same mistake with RQG.

See :

 

[Jeff]

3 minutes ago, Steve said:

 

They're coming. The GM's screen pack that's coming soon will have three adventures in it. There's also a scenarios book coming. And then later a Dragon pass campaign book. Plus I'm sure there's more coming. Chaosium have talked about the fact that the lack of playable content was a big downfall of RQ3 (until the Ken Rolston-led revival packs), and they're aiming to not make the same mistake with RQG.

See :

 

One thing I find perplexing is the impatience some people have displayed. We made the decision to pre-release the PDF of the core rules rather than wait until we could pre-release all three core books at the same time because we knew people wanted the core rules ASAP. I think the overwhelming majority of people are happy with that decision, but for those who want to complain about it - would you have preferred we waited?

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, Mugen said:

It's sometimes difficulty to differentiate tier 2 and tier 3. For instance, when I complain about RQG sorcery using mechanisms from RQ3, one can understand I'm complaining RQG is not based on Mythras' sorcery. Yet,  from my point of view, I'm complaining all of the various systems that have been done since 1984 (Sandy Petersen's, OpenQuest, RQ IV:AiG, Myhtras) and proposed interesting alternatives to the original rule, were not taken into account.

Interesting alternatives? Yes. Better at reflecting Gloranthan sorcery? Not really.

I will let this new system of sorcery override the 1994 playtest rules version, which were playable and less non-Gloranthan than RQ3.

If you want to see how non-Gloranthan the RQ3 sorcery rules were, look at Arlaten in Strangers in Prax. The author had to wind through so many hoops and bends to portray something approaching a Rokari wizard that you got dizzy just by reading the stats.

Availability of MP does remain a problem to power sorcery, and I wonder whether something like the Chain of Veneration may be used for communities supporting their wizard, or whether we may see something like crystals left in a magical lensing device for reloading from ambient magic, mechanical contraptions like the Zistorite prayer mills, or similar stuff for sorcerers with less community behind them, or whether we go back to the spirit zoo RQ3 sorcerers would entertain just to leach off MP. Farming, long before this became a term in computer games...

But back to the amount of griping. Been there, done that, been ignored, to some extent in non-public exchanges, with previous Glorantha publications, sometimes even before they got published (i.e. in a phase when such changes still could have been made). And that after tossing out significant amounts of background info I had put together for a campaign of mine, in order to be a somewhat neutral judge of canon and "consensus Glorantha".

In the mid-nineties, there were a lot of rules change proposals about for RQ, ardently discussed on the mailing lists and at the conventions which were instrumental in creating the "old guard" of RuneQuest and Glorantha fandom (along with the magazines). For some reason the convention efforts have ebbed down outside of central Europe, with Chimeriades, Continuum and the German conventions being the only places catering specifically to the tribe. ((Not that I complain - much of the good stuff happens in affordable distances for me.) Through these events, there is a lot less anonymity between a good portion of the people active here. I'm not familiar with GenCon, but I doubt that it is as hospitable to build personal relationships as the dedicated conventions with their opportunities to retreat over a beer or five and just talk.

I think that quite a bit of the more negative griping comes from not seeing the faces of the people. It's a bit like illumination - you can still rest in the secure knowledge that your own house rule beats any official rule, but it lets you see the merit of other people's experience a little better, and to be able to judge their pronouncements from what you know about them from face-to-face contact.

 

2 minutes ago, Jeff said:

One thing I find perplexing is the impatience some people have displayed. We made the decision to pre-release the PDF of the core rules rather than wait until we could pre-release all three core books at the same time because we knew people wanted the core rules ASAP. I think the overwhelming majority of people are happy with that decision, but for those who want to complain about it - would you have preferred we waited?

 

 

 

[metcalph]

1 hour ago, Mugen said:

 Yet,  from my point of view, I'm complaining all of the various systems that have been done since 1984 (Sandy Petersen's, OpenQuest, RQ IV:AiG, Myhtras) and proposed interesting alternatives to the original rule, were not taken into account.

My personal suspicion (and it is only that) is that some of what was in Sandy's sorcery rules will form the basis of the hero rules in the Game Master Book.  

[PhilHibbs]

39 minutes ago, metcalph said:

My personal suspicion (and it is only that) is that some of what was in Sandy's sorcery rules will form the basis of the hero rules in the Game Master Book.  

I don't see how Sandy's sorcery could be integrated in RQ:G. Or do you mean the Saints rules? I haven't read them for a long time, I guess it could be made to work.

Edited June 15, 2018 by PhilHibbs

[soltakss]

10 hours ago, Jeff said:

One thing I find perplexing is the impatience some people have displayed. We made the decision to pre-release the PDF of the core rules rather than wait until we could pre-release all three core books at the same time because we knew people wanted the core rules ASAP. I think the overwhelming majority of people are happy with that decision, but for those who want to complain about it - would you have preferred we waited?

We'd have preferred everything NOW!

If you had waited, people would have complained that you had things ready but held back on the release. They would also have complained that you released three fairly expensive supplements (I know, you would argue they are reasonably priced in comparison) together, so having a wallet/card shock.

If you release piecemeal, people ask "Where are the monsters? Where are the cults? Where are the Sceanrios? Where are the rules about HeroQuesting?"

Basically, you cannot win, whatever strategy you choose.

So, choose whatever strategy you want and people will complain and still buy the books.

Edited June 15, 2018 by soltakss

[Atgxtg]

11 hours ago, Steve said:

 

They're coming. The GM's screen pack that's coming soon will have three adventures in it. There's also a scenarios book coming. And then later a Dragon pass campaign book. Plus I'm sure there's more coming. Chaosium have talked about the fact that the lack of playable content was a big downfall of RQ3 (until the Ken Rolston-led revival packs), and they're aiming to not make the same mistake with RQG.

Thank Arachne Solara. That is exactly the mistake that I'm afraid of. By the time RQ3  playable Glorantha content reach something close to RQ2 levels, RQ3 was gone from the shelves. And that was the only way to get stuff back then. I was shocked when someone showed my Sun Country a few years later. 

Edited June 15, 2018 by Atgxtg

[Atgxtg]

10 hours ago, Jeff said:

One thing I find perplexing is the impatience some people have displayed. We made the decision to pre-release the PDF of the core rules rather than wait until we could pre-release all three core books at the same time because we knew people wanted the core rules ASAP. I think the overwhelming majority of people are happy with that decision, but for those who want to complain about it - would you have preferred we waited?

Okay, since you brought it up.

I for one, would have preferred to have all the combat rules in one book, as opposed to having to sift through multiple books to find something. especially during play. 

Edited June 15, 2018 by Atgxtg

[trystero]

13 hours ago, Jeff said:

One thing I find perplexing is the impatience some people have displayed. We made the decision to pre-release the PDF of the core rules rather than wait until we could pre-release all three core books at the same time because we knew people wanted the core rules ASAP. I think the overwhelming majority of people are happy with that decision, but for those who want to complain about it - would you have preferred we waited?

Some of us have been waiting about 25 years for a new edition of RQ that re-incorporated Glorantha. Of course we're impatient. 🙂

I'm glad that you put the PDF out now, myself, and am happy—well, let me revise that to willing—to wait for the later books without griping. I hope that comes across correctly as more eagerness than impatience: for all the nits I've picked, and for all the little RQ3isms that I miss, I'm excited about the new game and I (and my players) want to wade into it.

I do wish we'd gotten a bit more lead time for the tribal-edit phase between PDF release and print-edition deadline, because it's RuneQuest and I want it to be perfect, damnit. (But on the other hand, additional errata corrections will give me a great excuse to pick up a later-printing hardcover after I get the first-printing one.)

[Y Mab Darogan]

14 hours ago, Jeff said:

One thing I find perplexing is the impatience some people have displayed. We made the decision to pre-release the PDF of the core rules rather than wait until we could pre-release all three core books at the same time because we knew people wanted the core rules ASAP. I think the overwhelming majority of people are happy with that decision, but for those who want to complain about it - would you have preferred we waited?

Gamers are big kids regardless of actual age, and trying to please all of them all of the time is a road to madness.

If I was you I’d take the moaning as a good thing, at least they’re eager for more 🤘