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RHW

Alcoholic Beverages of Glorantha

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9 minutes ago, Jeff said:

In summer you wear very little. In winter you wrap yourself up. It is worth looking at Hittite attire for example (which was functionally similar to other Mesopotamian attires).
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And yet, it is COLD in the central Anatolian highlands. Colder than Berlin in mid-winter. . 

While I can attest to the Anatolian highlands in February being cold enough that I caught hypothermia from the falling winds blowing into the opened airplane in Antalia, that is under current climatic conditions.

For much of the bronze age, temperatures were significantly higher than today. The Unetice culture of eastern Germany probably enjoyed near mediterranean conditions, and the mediterranian proper may have been even warmer.

And before anybody starts thinking about global warming, those may have been localized phenomena, limited to Europe and the fertile crescent.

The Ötztal ice mummy is wearing the copper age equivalent of a survival suit for high mountains. Yes, those are leather pants rather than kilts, but this guy would have crossed snow fields high up in the mountains. I watched a documentary on two volunteers from the Bodensee stilthouse experimental archaeology camp crossing the alps on foot, wearing just period clothing.

Going barefoot come snow or mud was pretty common. Shoes were known, but would easily chafe, and wouldn't last long on forced marches.

As a rule, textile and leather finds are the exception in archaeology. The Ötztal ice mummy and a couple of hapless salt workers in the Hallstatt mine provided us with a good portion of known samples of textiles. Bog mummies probably accound for much of the rest, alongside with the Egyptian mummies preserved for eternity (or rather until they were ground up for producing mumia, a popular remedy and pigment). This means we have few samples of authentic clothing, and only pictorial recreations from other pictorial sources like e.g. the various attire of the sea people from the Ramses frieze commemorating his "victory". The Nordic Bronze and Iron Ages with their bog mummies offer probably a better insight than the collective finds of Mycenean gear.

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12 hours ago, Jeff said:

Remember, the Lunar Empire is NOT culturally much like the Roman Empire. It is more like an empire based on the Upper Mississippi than a Mediterranean peninsula.

While gathered at a villa, Lergius Cassius, Tatius, Paulus, Laertes Skiplilies, Icilius Overholy, some toga-wearing Imperial Senators, various vexillifers, Emperors Argentus, et al, recline on their dining couches and agree that there's no reason whatsoever to see them as Romans.

Pass the wine!

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5 hours ago, RHW said:

While gathered at a villa, Lergius Cassius, Tatius, Paulus, Laertes Skiplilies, Icilius Overholy, some toga-wearing Imperial Senators, various vexillifers, Emperors Argentus, et al, recline on their dining couches and agree that there's no reason whatsoever to see them as Romans.

 

Under breath

"Bloody romans..."

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21 hours ago, Jeff said:

And here's the difference in perspective - I see the Sartarite warriors and priests sitting around their king's central open hearth (think a megaron rather than a long house), drinking from a communal bowl of undiluted wine.

I'm not sure you've ever tasted the more basic forms of wine that mostly disappeared during the course of the 20th Century, from a combination of industrialisation, commercialism, and widespread snobbishness, but much of pre-WW1 wine was very poor quality purple stuff that stained your tongue and was more like alcoholic grape juice than anything else -- and there were also many very poor quality whites (very bitter) and rosés (el cheapo par excellence, but low alcohol % and very easy to drink) too.

Those whites you'd often dilute for the bitterness, but the rosés you wouldn't need to (though you would do so anyway in the midst of summer heat), and the very el cheapo reds/purples/blacks aren't really party drinks but something to take straight with your meal.

As for stronger & naturally higher quality wines, you really would dilute some of them -- a pure red from some of the French Hautes Côtes can be about 15%-17% alcohol content, and so many of the locals there will routinely dilute them. Never the absolute best quality ones of course though, which would be a horrendous act of vandalism.

Your understanding of wine, Jeff, might be a little bit skewed from the California origins and German residence -- as Californian wines tend to be fruitier than average, and German ones lower alcohol %. Local French, Spanish, Portuguese, and Italian wines can be very different indeed. Particularly the Italian, as there are still *many* Italian wines that are from family vineyards and so completely impossible to purchase and can only be tasted within a narrow family or sometimes broader friends and relations environment. There's similar to an extent in some Spanish wine regions, and AFAIK some Portuguese, but these things have been almost completely lost in France and Northern Europe, and have never existed in such places as California, New Zealand, Australia ...

Edited by Julian Lord

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4 hours ago, JonL said:

What did the Lunars ever do for us?

In a obsequious urban oily voice,
"Well there is the crucifix"
<a little too loudly>
"Great People the Lunars, only people who can keep order in a violent cesspool like Sartsr
Lunars, great people"

 

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4 hours ago, JonL said:

What did the Lunars ever do for us?

Gar Darkspear drunkenly shouts in New Pelorian (15% skill): “Person of Lunes, they go, the house!”

Then in perfect Sartarite: “More beer!”

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Here is an exert from a WIP of mine that includes a trip to the palace of the Demivierge of Rhigos describing some cuisine..of course these are high status dishes so not eaten everyday...

The Banquet of Roses

Braziers, casting flickering shadows that play across the walls, light the Queen’s hall. A scintillation of flickering multihued lights reflects from the gem-incrusted dishes. Hallucinogenic smoke of Cahoba and frankinsense resin drifts from crystal bowls to mingle with the rich heady scents of perfumed oil and roses. The effects are Nearly Impossible to resist, resulting in a disorientating feeling.

The banquet is a glamorous, epicurean, and hedonistic affair. Large roasts of pork, poultry, and beef; hedgehogs with garum, fried grasshoppers, and preserved dormice; grilled fishes with birds and green sauce on plates of red clay relieved by drawings in black; wheaten porridge flavored with rose water studded with green beans, and snails dressed with cumin on dishes of yellow amber; anise-sprinkled loaves; bountiful platters of salad leaves with pomegranates, figs, dates, truffles, and strange exotic fruits nestled on dripping honeycombs strewn with dried rose petals-all with bowls of garlic mayonnaise; and sweet pastries of honey, vanilla, and various nuts, fruits and spices, are piled up on the low tables. All of the food is highly spiced with jujube, bergamot, cinnamon, ginger, rose water, and lotus. Prodigious amounts of highly intoxicating spiced wine are offered in black glass goblets and kept continually filled by attentive oiled slaves. The Heroes will find it Very Hard to resist indulging in such opulence.

Exellent entertainment accompanies the banquet-musicians with a bewildering array of bronze kettles, suspended gongs, hanging cymbals, monkey-hide shake drums, and flutes. With a light clap of Queen Grathera’s hands, sensuous music commences and dancing girls perform an enticing dance with showers of rose petals, ribbons, and tiny hand cymbals [MH1] .

Edited by Martin
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sorry about the repeated posts i only posted once and  strangely it showed 3 times so sorry about that all

Edited by Martin

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For me, I like the idea that Lunars brought Gin to Sartar, as was described back in the day. 

In my Glorantha, Aldryami have a lot of alcoholic drinks made from various plants.

Fermented Sap - Birch, Maple and other trees have sap that can be tapped, using spikes driven unto the trunks and collected in flasks, the sap can be fermented into a strong and sweet drink

Berry Wines - All kinds of berries can be turned into wines that have varying strength

Cactus Drinks - The cacti of Prax can be used to make very strong drink with hallucinogenic properties

 

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7 hours ago, soltakss said:

Cactus Drinks - The cacti of Prax can be used to make very strong drink with hallucinogenic properties

I remember seeing someone present the theory that the lost White Elves were related to cacti and desert succulents. It was mostly to make the pun of "high" elves (because peyote), I think, and doesn't really fit with their mountaintop origins - but I admit I thought that associating them with "transcendental" hallucinogens was kinda clever.

Edited by Sir_Godspeed
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On 3/8/2019 at 10:50 AM, soltakss said:

Berry Wines - All kinds of berries can be turned into wines that have varying strength

Technically, these are usually Liqueurs. The distinction on whether something is a "beer" or a "wine" or a "liqueur" or a "spirit" depends mostly on technique.

Beers are brewed (which is why Japanese Saké is technically a "beer", as it's "brewed") ; wines are macerated and fermented naturally (Which is why there's Rice Wine) ; spirits are distilled ; and Liqueurs are generally speaking just plain weird.

"Barley Wine" is a straightforward misnomer.

On 3/8/2019 at 10:50 AM, soltakss said:

Cactus Drinks - The cacti of Prax can be used to make very strong drink with hallucinogenic properties

The typical one would be like a Mezcal, and unless you dare to swallow the caterpillar or etc, the hallucinogenic properties are so mild as to be negligeable.

Yes, there are traditional Mezcales with Peyotl, but that's a different matter.And anyway, I just can't see the typical Praxian Shaman allowing the sacred Spirit drinks to be misused for mere purposes of intoxicated self-gratification -- but some milder or stronger hallucinogenic drinks are likely sought for regardless by the shiftless youth of Prax and the Wastelands, and in that morally and spiritually corrupted cesspit Pavis.

 

Edited by Julian Lord
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Cocoa is a tropical tree, so I could see chocolate in Caladraland as a drink in the Mayan/Aztec style with hot peppers and honey as both a ritual and social beverage. Plus as a sauce for meats in the style of mole (excellent with man-corn!)

Caladralanders could use cocoa beans as currency a la Mesoamericans.

It could also be found in Esrolia and elsewhere as a luxury drink.

Another place cocoa might grown and be consumed would be northern Pamaltela.

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Maslo has always struck me as vaguely Mezoamerican (aside from Ignorance), and I could see cocoa being a major export from there. Possibly transplanted to Caladraland or Slontos, or even Teshnos during the Second Age.

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As long as we're talking Mesoamerica, are there any Gloranthan cultures that consume alcohol via the... umm... Mayan variation?* I bet elves do this. I mean, one opening is pretty much like another opening, when you're a plant.

Now I'm picture Humakti using this as a loophole around the "consume no alcohol" geas and I have to wash my brain.

 

 

*AKA Butt-chugging.

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While we're on the subject, balche and xtabentun seems like Caladraland drinks. From Wikipedia:

Balché is a mildly intoxicating beverage that was commonly consumed by the ancient Maya in what is now Mexico and upper Central America. Today, it is still common among the Yucatec Maya. The drink is made from the bark of a leguminous tree, Lonchocarpus longistylus, which is soaked in honey and water, and fermented.[1] A closely related beverage, made from honey produced from the nectar of a species of morning glory (Turbina corymbosa), is called xtabentún.

 

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Does anybody know more about the recipe/preparation method for the ancient Persian holy drink of soma? Short research points to it being plant sap harvested from ephedra or sarcostemma, and potentially non-alcoholic yet inebriating.

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15 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Does anybody know more about the recipe/preparation method for the ancient Persian holy drink of soma? Short research points to it being plant sap harvested from ephedra or sarcostemma, and potentially non-alcoholic yet inebriating.

I like the suggestion given in Wikipedia, "According to recent philological and archaeological studies, and in addition, direct preparation instructions confirm in the Rig Vedic Hymns (Vedic period) Ancient Soma most likely consisted of Poppy, Phaedra/Ephedra (plant) and Cannabis", because that's some cocktail!

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