Is Chaosium going to support BRP anymore?

[NickMiddleton]

Well, back on to the original topic. I received a contract yesterday to produce a setting for BRP.

It's due in September. I should have it done before then.

Ooh! Ooh! Cool! Tell us more please!

Nick Middleton

[Jason D]

I'm just happy Interplanetary is back in line,

We should change that notice on the front page... it is not only back in line, but may be available in some form sooner than expected...

More I cannot say.

[cjbowser]

Cool. What kind of setting? Monograph or actual Book (or whatever they call non-monographs)? Are you allowed to discuss it?

Thalaba

Non-monograph. A book that'll hit the actual distribution chain at some point. As for the setting, I'm going to hold off on announcing it for a bit. I want to get all my BRP options outlined, then post the setting and intended options here for everyone to comment and suggest on.

[threedeesix]

He went on at one point about how much he disliked Runequests XP... how it encouraged everyone to use all their skills in an attempt to raise them (he used an example of an assassin trying to practice his French on a victim he's about to garrote...).

I would point out the error of his ways. I believe in RQ, language is one of the skills that cannot be raised with experience, only practice. On this, I could be wrong as it has been a while since I played RQ. But I do know that the GM decides when to allow the checking of a skill box. Letting the players decide when they can check a skill box is like letting them decide how many experience points they should get for an orc.

Rod

[NickMiddleton]

We should change that notice on the front page... it is not only back in line, but may be available in some form sooner than expected...

More I cannot say.

Excellent news! Really looking forward to this, and gives me just the excuse I need to read my Fantasy masterworks anthology of Leigh Brackett stories!

Non-monograph. A book that'll hit the actual distribution chain at some point. As for the setting, I'm going to hold off on announcing it for a bit. I want to get all my BRP options outlined, then post the setting and intended options here for everyone to comment and suggest on.

:thumb: That sounds really good as well. Things are definitely looking up.

Nick

[vagabond]

He went on at one point about how much he disliked Runequests XP... how it encouraged everyone to use all their skills in an attempt to raise them (he used an example of an assassin trying to practice his French on a victim he's about to garrote...).

I loves me some asshat players ...

Since that is a blatant attempt to circumvent the rules, here is how I would

handle it:

1) Practicing language requires a "partner", someone to talk to. Or, a textbook.

Since he is about to garrote someone, I would highly doubt he would whip out

his French 101 book, but if he did, that would most likely require a difficult

DEX roll to grab the book, flip to the correct page, and still maintain his

hold on his target. Cost of failure - the target getting free. Assuming he

attempts to use his target as a conversationalist (and assuming the target

is at least a better French speaker), I would allow it ... but read on. Without

a textbook or someone to practice with, no experience check. You can talk to

yourself all you want, you will not learn anything new.

2) Assuming the target is a (un)willing participant in his French skill practice,

we again have two options. First, the target could "lie" or deceive him. Allow

for a successful experience check, but let him know that a failed check will

cause him to lose skill points, and a successful check has a 50% chance of

losing skill points - the target taught him incorrect grammar. Second, he still

has to roll for successful skill use, again, possibly a difficult roll since he

should be paying attention to his garrote. A failure means nothing, but a

fumble, and he may suffered severe "brain sprain" trying to deal with his

French, that his target has freed himself from the garrote since the assassin's

attention was not only not 100% on his task at hand, but he became

distracted trying to find the correct syntax of the phrase he was trying to

learn.

Of course, this assumes you didn't just reject the attempt outright, as per

the rules.

-V

[Simlasa]

I loves me some asshat players ...

Since that is a blatant attempt to circumvent the rules, here is how I would

handle it:

(snip)

-V

To be fair... I suspect he was being purposely obtuse... and even then I thought that the idea of an assassin who spoke French to his targets before killing them was kind of interesting... ala Pulp Fiction's Bible quoting assassin.

His point was that the XP system would encourage players to do odd things like that... which isn't really what I've seen happen in play.

[vagabond]

To be fair... I suspect he was being purposely obtuse... and even then I thought that the idea of an assassin who spoke French to his targets before killing them was kind of interesting... ala Pulp Fiction's Bible quoting assassin.

His point was that the XP system would encourage players to do odd things like that... which isn't really what I've seen happen in play.

My point is the XP system explicitly does not allow this, and therefore would

not encourage players to do it. XP ticks are given when the GM decides, and

there are guidelines provided. Attempting to speak French for no apparent

reason while attempting to garrote someone is one of those situations where

there would be no tick given.

Speaking French to his victims prior to killing them might be colorful, but it

is not a valid way to learn French - in real life or in game.

-V

[RosenMcStern]

Yeah, that's just covered by the rules: using a skill in a way that puts you at a stake is worth an XP check, casual use is not. The rules are clear about this, whether you let your players abuse them is a matter of your style as a GM. Typical abuse in my campaign was casting Disruption at a fleeing enemy to raise POW

On the other hand, the point about increasing one's Stealth skills by killing 17.5 ocs still stands - and it isn't covered by the rules.

[Simlasa]

I've never played under the old Runequest rules so I wasn't absolutely sure whether skill increases might have actually worked along those lines at one time...

I've read people making similar comments before though... so it seems like it's not an isolated misconception.

I did try to dissuade him... but didn't have the BRP book at hand.

...

I'm really hoping that the new Interplanetary book has some eyp-popping/evocative cover art... it might be worth a try to just take it to a game with me and leave it out as bait.

[GreatBear]

I've never played under the old Runequest rules so I wasn't absolutely sure whether skill increases might have actually worked along those lines at one time...

Intended or not, people did play that way. I remember having a troll down to 2 hp and being encouraged by other players to switch from my sword to a dagger so I'd get an experience check for dagger skill. Even back in my innocent youth in the 1980s I knew that was idiotic.

Still - the basic premise makes more sense to me than any class/level based system ever did.

[thekobold]

I'm very new to Chaosium's BRP and only just getting back into RPGing in general after decades.

I was disappointed to realize that there doesn't seem to be any fantasy oriented BRP supplementals, in particular a bestiary or spells book, or an expanded weapons/armor module. The idea of playtesting my own creations is daunting (although I'm sure with its own reward), and I wonder what others here might have used as a workaround?

I'm familiar with the 3.5 SRD monsters, and saw a post on the forums here on converting from that format to BRPs, but again, I'm curious to know if there's another avenue to take that'd save time/energy (if not money). Are the Runequest Bestiary (Bestiaries?) by Mongoose fully BRP compatible, and are they worth the expense, for example?

Again, I'm very re-new to RPGs, and have been wondering if another system like Pathfinder might be more worth exploring, esp. due to the Open Game License it utilizes. Maybe that's a dangerous question to post here, but have at... Any feedback is appreciated, thanks.

[NickMiddleton]

I was disappointed to realise that there doesn't seem to be any fantasy oriented BRP supplemental, in particular a bestiary or spells book, or an expanded weapons/armor module. The idea of playtesting my own creations is daunting (although I'm sure with its own reward), and I wonder what others here might have used as a workaround?

Ahses to Ashes is a fantasy supplement (a complete "dark fantasy" setting), but only available direct from Chaosium (in print of PDF); Malleus Monstrorum is ostensibly a Call of Cthulhu source book that should be available from all usual RPG outlets, is entirely numbers compatible with BRP and makes a pretty solid creature collection for BRP. There is some fantasy content in the first issue of my BRP fanzine, Uncounted Worlds. There are also several supplements "in development" that are fantasy orientated.

Sadly, at present, after that you are left looking for supplements to previous BRP games on eBay - the RuneQuest III Creatures Book (also briefly published as the BRP Creatures Book monograph by Chaosum) would obviously be useful.

I'm familiar with the 3.5 SRD monsters, and saw a post on the forums here on converting from that format to BRPs, but again, I'm curious to know if there's another avenue to take that'd save time/energy (if not money).

Trawl through the downloads section here, ask in these forums and also other BRP Internet related sites (there are several Yahoo Groups for BRP and BRP related games). Several folk here have talked about conversions from D&D (3.x and earlier).

Are the Runequest Bestiary (Bestiaries?) by Mongoose fully BRP compatible, and are they worth the expense, for example?

No idea as I don't own them - but several other people here do buy MRQ books for use with BRP.

Again, I'm very re-new to RPGs, and have been wondering if another system like Pathfinder might be more worth exploring, esp. due to the Open Game License it utilises. Maybe that's a dangerous question to post here, but have at... Any feedback is appreciated, thanks.

The Open Gaming License is a bit of red herring IMO - the fact that A N Other publisher can sell a book with great swathes of copyright text previously published by someone else does not guarantee their books are any good, and as the d20 collapse of '03 showed it mostly just choked the market and distribution chain with mediocre derivative crap. Also, whether Pathfinder will get significant support has yet to be seen (they've only JUST announced their trademark and fan use licenses IIRC).

Find a game you like playing that involves a level of effort you are comfortable with and play that. I'd recommend giving BRP a serious try as I think it's very good and, whilst not as heavily commercially supported as others there is quite a lot of at least basically compatible material out there. But in the end, find a game you and the rest of your group enjoy playing and have fun: that is, after all, the point.

Nick

[neorxnawang]

Thanks Nick. It's a bit offputting to keep reading about how there's no support or no settings for BRP while a pile of my 180 page setting books sit here looking at me. And it is complete: elaborate backstory, organizations, gazetteer, 2 scenarios, options, new rules, camapaign structure, and a year of hobby time to write.

And heck I dangle myself out here to support the thing.

I think that any one complaining about the lack of settings for fantasy, sci fi or spy genres should attest that they have bought our respective products.

Would anyone like a copy to review?

[threedeesix]

Intended or not, people did play that way. I remember having a troll down to 2 hp and being encouraged by other players to switch from my sword to a dagger so I'd get an experience check for dagger skill. Even back in my innocent youth in the 1980s I knew that was idiotic.

Still - the basic premise makes more sense to me than any class/level based system ever did.

You could always rule that in a situation like this, you have to let your guard down to switch weapons, in this case giving the troll a free attack. If the character was to survive that, you can still decide against the dagger 'check' unless the combat was to go on significantly longer.

Cruel I know, but it could sway their decisions to do it in the future.

Rod the cruel and heartless GM.

Edited March 6, 2009 by threedeesix

[cjbowser]

I'm very new to Chaosium's BRP and only just getting back into RPGing in general after decades.

Welcome back. Good choice on a system.

I was disappointed to realize that there doesn't seem to be any fantasy oriented BRP supplementals, in particular a bestiary or spells book, or an expanded weapons/armor module. The idea of playtesting my own creations is daunting (although I'm sure with its own reward), and I wonder what others here might have used as a workaround?

There's Ashes to Ashes, available for purchase on Chaosium's site. There's all the old Runequest material at Noble Knight Games and ebay. Binder has an excellent Stormbringer Resource. There's also all the free downloads on this site, included a Middle Earth bestiary, in the downloads section. There's Fire & Sword, free material put out by Raymond Turney. Have you checked out these yet? And MurfinMS's posts throughout the forums as well. Once you get rolling with your own creations, you can add to the collection.

Are the Runequest Bestiary (Bestiaries?) by Mongoose fully BRP compatible, and are they worth the expense, for example?

I'm not sure, but one %100 system should be easy enough to convert to another %100. People familiar with both systems on here should be able to answer any questions that might arise.

Again, I'm very re-new to RPGs, and have been wondering if another system like Pathfinder might be more worth exploring, esp. due to the Open Game License it utilizes. Maybe that's a dangerous question to post here, but have at... Any feedback is appreciated, thanks.

Like Nick pointed out, the OGL is no seal of quality. Anybody and their brother could toss stuff out there, some was good. Most was middling. Some was bad. However, you need to pick a system that'll let you run the type of game you want to run. If that's BRP, great. If it's 3.5, great. The key is, you and your group should have fun.

Edited March 6, 2009 by cjbowser
adding links

[sdavies2720]

Thanks Nick. It's a bit offputting to keep reading about how there's no support or no settings for BRP while a pile of my 180 page setting books sit here looking at me. And it is complete: elaborate backstory, organizations, gazetteer, 2 scenarios, options, new rules, camapaign structure, and a year of hobby time to write.

And heck I dangle myself out here to support the thing.

I think that any one complaining about the lack of settings for fantasy, sci fi or spy genres should attest that they have bought our respective products.

Would anyone like a copy to review?

Uh, it's time to start marketing!

As a start, you should put a link on every post (or in your footer) telling what you have and where to buy them.

Unforunately I have no time for a review.

Steve

[rust]

It's a bit offputting to keep reading about how there's no support or no settings for BRP while a pile of my 180 page setting books sit here looking at me.

Perhaps I somehow missed your book, or I am unable to make the connection

between the book and your forum name - but if it is science fiction, you only

have to tell me where and how to buy it.

However, if it happens to be fantasy ... I am sorry ...

[neorxnawang]

Perhaps I somehow missed your book, or I am unable to make the connection

between the book and your forum name - but if it is science fiction, you only

have to tell me where and how to buy it.

However, if it happens to be fantasy ... I am sorry ...

(Pounds head on desk in frustration).

I'm Jeff Moeller.

My book is Ashes, to Ashes.

It's been out in pdf for going on a year.

It's out in hard copy courtesy of Chaosium.

There's a review in the review section of the site, and three or four threads.

It's nominally fantasy, but frankly its more experimental and just plain weird. (I agree with the "quirky" label. When I'm writing a 180 page book for $250 in my spare time for giggles, I write what I feel like writing and critics take the hindmost).

Gah. The only one who pushes this is me, and I have zero economic incentive to do so. Gah.

(Head explodes in shower of grey matter).

Edited March 6, 2009 by neorxnawang

[soltakss]

My book is Ashes, to Ashes.

Ashes to Ashes? What's that? Is it for BRP?

Gah. The only one who pushes this is me, and I have zero economic incentive to do so. Gah.

(Head explodes in shower of grey matter).

Sorry, I just wanted to watch your head explode.

[rust]

My book is Ashes, to Ashes.

Sorry for your head, but ... fantasy ... wizards ... ;-(

[RosenMcStern]

This is showcasing a problem that no one has ever raised (well, except frogspawner once).

Chaosium is not "pushing" BRP products through some channels. It does not sell BRP related products on DriveThru/RpGNow. It does not sell BRP Monographs on Amazon or other e-shops. As a result, I am afraid that Ashes, to Ashes has received less enthusiasm than it deserved.

This on the other hand leaves more room for third party publishers, as we do not compete with Chaosium itself on the e-shops. Please note that with the OGL we are forced to compete with WotC or Mongoose themselves on their terrain, as they sell via OneBookShelf, too. I think this was an intentional move by Chaosium, suggesting that they rely more heavily on third parties for BRP than they do on CoC. But the final effect is that monographs are somehow underrated in their appeal to the public, which in some cases is a real shame. It also means that the average product is a bit more costly than it should, as independent publishers have higher printing costs than companies. Luckily we have PDFs too.

[sdavies2720]

(Pounds head on desk in frustration)...

(Head explodes in shower of grey matter).

Ooh, messy! :shocked:

Sorry, I didn't make the connection between Ashes and Ashes and you either. Yes, Ashes to Ashes is getting 'press' (electrons?) here. I still think you should put a "Buy Ashes to Ashes" (or something less commercial) tag on your posts.

My guess is folks want more books available, many more, than just Ashes to Ashes. For you, it's probably like being the only one who shows up on time for Choir practice, only to have the choir director harangue you because "everyone's always late."

Steve

[Nightshade]

My point is the XP system explicitly does not allow this, and therefore would

That doesn't mean it isn't an area where there's a lot of room to game the system; it just means that players trying to do this try to judge how close to the line they can get and still get the tick, and try to construct situations that justify it.

The real issue is that its, well, silly; if you don't have an organic reason to use the skill in the game, why bother? If you never use the skill, why do you care how high it is?

Yet people get a complex about this sort of thing where "more ticks=better" even though they don't really care about the skills involved.

Its a real phenomenon I saw too much in my old RQ-intensive days (when we had an extended group of about 30 people who all played/ran RQ with each other) to write-off.

[Nightshade]

You could always rule that in a situation like this, you have to let your guard down to switch weapons, in this case giving the troll a free attack. If the character was to survive that, you can still decide against the dagger 'check' unless the combat was to go on significantly longer.

Cruel I know, but it could sway their decisions to do it in the future.

Rod the cruel and heartless GM.

With smart players that means they'd just use the other weapon when they were disengaged and/or in the next fight.