Egregious munchkinnery!

[GAZZA]

I must confess that I've never really understood why anyone enchants MP storage matrices; in every version of the game that I am familiar with, there is an equivalent method of storing a spirit in such a way that you can use its MPs, and it will regain them on its own; typically you can get far more MPs per point of POW this way. Is it some sort of "don't abuse spirits" thing? I realise that technically spirits are subject to (e.g.) Control spells, but I believe only if you don't have appropriate conditions.

I do realise that MP storage items are not uncommon as treasures in published adventures or even as family heirlooms in the new RQG rules, but I've rarely seen any PCs enchant one.

[PhilHibbs]

1 minute ago, Akhôrahil said:

You don't have to attune regular MP storage crystals, I believe.

I think you used to have to, but it was a simple attunement rather than the exclusive and potentially costly attunement for powered crystals. So you may be right, RAW allows one character to re-fill everyone's storage, but it's easy to fix.

[PhilHibbs]

2 minutes ago, GAZZA said:

I must confess that I've never really understood why anyone enchants MP storage matrices; in every version of the game that I am familiar with, there is an equivalent method of storing a spirit in such a way that you can use its MPs, and it will regain them on its own;...

I do realise that MP storage items are not uncommon as treasures in published adventures or even as family heirlooms in the new RQG rules, but I've rarely seen any PCs enchant one.

You need to summon and control the spirit, and not everyone had access to summoning and controlling spells in earlier editions. One "MP storage matrix" spell is a lot simpler than "create binding, summon, control". I've certainly done it.

[Joerg]

16 minutes ago, GAZZA said:

(snip!)

I mean, sure, but none of that is in the spell description (shrug).

Where do you think I pulled these notes from, then?

Let's look at Steal Breath, p.400 in the rules.

Quote

Storm Rune, Tap Technique

2 Points
Ranged, Active, Temporal

This spell allows the caster to convert 3 cubic meters of air into 1D6 magic points per round. Every 2 levels of strength added to the spell add another 3 cubic meters of air to be converted into 1D6 more magic points.

This could be clearer, I agree. 2 MP allow the sorcerer to degrade 3 cubic meters of air per round (I suppose melee round, five rounds to a minute, 25 to a Full Turn). Each 2 MP added to strength will convert again that volume, adding another dice rolled. The volume seems to disappear, creating a flow of air replacing the tapped breath. Even if you infer both the rune and the technique, after three rounds of concentration the sorcerer should be in the plus.

The asphyxiation effect isn't pertinent to what happens to the MP.

Quote

Magic points gained in this manner act in every way like normal magic points (i.e., they can be used to cast spells, add to the sorcerer’s chances of their spells overcoming a target’s resistance, etc.), except that they are not regenerated through rest. If the sorcerer’s total magic points exceed their normal maximum, the extra points are only available for use until the duration of the Steal Breath spell expires. 

The duration expires - that implies that the sorcerer doesn't need to keep the spell active to retain any excess MP, he only needs to add enough Duration to keep this extra buffer on his person.

While carrying these extra MP around, the sorcerer doesn't regenerate any MP as his batteries are filled beyond their brim. All MPs tapped inside his POW become hist personal MP and remain regardless of the duration of the spell.

(Under RQ3 rules, a sorcerer tapped way beyond his POW was pretty much immune to incoming spells, and would have had a lot of fun with Castback as in RQ3 the target's MPs would have to be overcome. RQG appears to use his permanent POW instead, unless this is a case of sloppy editing from RQ2 using "temporary POW" rather than MP.)

P..396 tells us about the speed with which these tapped MP can be stored (under Magic Point Enchantment):

Quote

It takes one melee round to store 1 magic point in an enchanted item. 

I suppose Dead Crystals count as enchanted items, too.

That means that a sorcerer who has tapped lots of MP wants to have invested in some duration to not squander any MP.

This is the munchkin thread, so I won't start yammering about "if he wants to cast a spell with those excess MP. Hence my assumption "Active when raking in MP, passive when just holding on". I would allow the actual tapping only to come in one un-interrupted go. Once the sorcerer stops converting air into MP,, he cannot restart with the same spell. The MP still hang on until the spell expires.

The sorcerer can cast another Steal Breath (or some other Tap spell) within the duration of the first one, and add another bunch of excess MP with a different duration timer start. I would allow him to use up the MP with the shortest remaining duration first, but your mileage as GM may vary. Either way, this creates quite a bit of book-keeping.

 

16 minutes ago, GAZZA said:

Even in RQ3 there was nothing in the Tap spell that said it was evil - there was a brief mention of the sorcerer in Rurik's party having been told that Tapping was evil, and in Sandy's Sorcery there were various Malkioni groups that did or did not allow Tapping (and it's generally true that the ones that did were bad guys) - but it's still mechanically broken if the only downside to it is the old standby of ancient red dragons swooping down from the sky to express their displeasure.

Tap spells are destructive, they diminish Creation. Thanks to the emanation of the Chaosium, a certain amount of Creation regenerates at any given time, although the Chaosium is located in an Outer World that is pretty much outside of normal Time.

In places where Reality consists mainly of spider silk with little else, Tapping may open micro-rifts, allowing Chaos to seep into the world. But that's the only connection between Tapping and Chaos that I can point to, unless you use the Boristi spell that taps the Chaos rune of chaotic creatures.

 

16 minutes ago, GAZZA said:

What might a balanced Tap spell look like? I would suggest one that came with some sort of disadvantage - let's say, a cumulative chance of getting a Chaos Feature from the Curse of Thed table every time you Tap. That would seem to fit both thematically and mechanically.

I disagree about the thematic fit. It takes a spot with only a thin veneer of reality to actually let Chaos in.

As for the mechanic fit - neither Vadeli nor Brithini have ever reported to have spouted tentacles. Tapping doesn't render a sorcerer chaotic.

YGWV, yadda yadda. But there is no evidence that ties Chaos features (detrimental or otherwise) with the practice of Tapping.

And that's your idea of "balanced"?

16 minutes ago, GAZZA said:

Or something like the old D&D Potions of Longevity, with a cumulative chance every time you Tap that this next Tap will be the one that eats your soul. Or to fit your description, a cumulative chance that "something bad" will happen - perhaps a random Chaos creature will be summoned, or even created. (That still wouldn't bother a lot of Brithini, of course).

The only sorcerers who are rumored to have to deal with random Chaos monsters are the Boristi, and nothing but rumors and vile propaganda against them has been printed. The Boristi themselves can be portrayed as a group of sorcerers who believe that they reduce the Chaos in the world by turning it from destruction into clean magical energy.

[Kloster]

1 hour ago, Akhôrahil said:

You don't have to attune regular MP storage crystals, I believe.

Yes, that's right. Only live, powered crystals have to be attuned. Dead crystals and MP matrix don't need it.

[Joerg]

2 hours ago, Kloster said:

I play it the way you do, but this nonetheless allow all those who have MP storage to start an event with all the storage full, and when they have enough storage, they almost never use their own MP. This was especially important with RQ3, when the resistance roll was MP vs MP and not POW vs POW.

It isn't that hard to get people to use up all their stored magic much faster than they and an entire zoo of bound spirits can regenerate them. Occasional sprays of acid or poison will cause quite a lot of Healing activity...

1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

I've also seen it houseruled that the attunement process empties the MP from storage, so you can't transfer MP to other characters. In fact I think I used that houserule myself in combination with the ability to draw MP from storage, the two worked quite well together. Flexibility with a constraint to prevent abuse.

There are no rules for attuning Dead Crystals in any incarnation of RQ that I know of. And there has never been any rule that you had to attune an enchantment.

1 hour ago, Akhôrahil said:

You don't have to attune regular MP storage crystals, I believe.

 

1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

I think you used to have to, but it was a simple attunement rather than the exclusive and potentially costly attunement for powered crystals. So you may be right, RAW allows one character to re-fill everyone's storage, but it's easy to fix.

Does it need fixing?

Keep in mind that when you demand attunement, you won't be able to use any MP you commanded a bound spirit to pour into a (separate) magical item or enchantment of yours.

Having had a look at Biturian's Travels recently, it looks like "setting" a truestone just means pouring your rune points (and attached spell knowledge) into it. Once that has been done, the Truestone's rune points (once they have been used up) and those of the donator can be regained in worship rites. The set (and loaded) truestone can be used by whoever holds it.

Why should a dead piece of crystallized divine blood be harder to use or transfer?

Urvantan has no problems with accepting stored MP from PC-owned items in The Smoking Ruins.

 

1 hour ago, GAZZA said:

I must confess that I've never really understood why anyone enchants MP storage matrices; in every version of the game that I am familiar with, there is an equivalent method of storing a spirit in such a way that you can use its MPs, and it will regain them on its own; typically you can get far more MPs per point of POW this way. Is it some sort of "don't abuse spirits" thing? I realise that technically spirits are subject to (e.g.) Control spells, but I believe only if you don't have appropriate conditions.

I do realise that MP storage items are not uncommon as treasures in published adventures or even as family heirlooms in the new RQG rules, but I've rarely seen any PCs enchant one.

Have a few spirit bindings and order the bound spirits to fill up a magic point storage (or three) continually as soon as they reach full MP.

Think of a full hybrid car using a diesel-generator to power the electric motor and having a battery or condensator to start the motor with, or to provide extra peak power. The same applies to magic storages.

 

55 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

You need to summon and control the spirit, and not everyone had access to summoning and controlling spells in earlier editions. One "MP storage matrix" spell is a lot simpler than "create binding, summon, control". I've certainly done it.

There's also an upper limit to how many spirits you can keep in RQG. There is no limit to how many storages you can use.

 

 

[Dragon]

40 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Even if you infer both the rune and the technique, after three rounds of concentration the sorcerer should be in the plus.

The wording on page 386 is not well defined. It is fine for the initial cost. If the Sorcerer has Insight to both Storm and Tap in Steal Breath, the initial cost is now 4. But as I read the Intensity charts (Strength, Range, Duration), once at least one Rune/Technique is Insight you double the cost of each addition. Not that those are also double twice or more.

Indeed there is a contradiction in Spell Cost on p386. (emphasis added below)

1. "If the caster has not mastered one of the Runes or techniques required in the spell, but is using an associated Rune or technique as a substitute (see above), the cost for that Rune or technique is doubled."
2. "if a sorcerer tries to cast a spell with a Rune and a technique they have not mastered, the magic point cost is multiplied by 4 (essentially, doubled twice)."
3. "He knows the Truth rune, but because he only knows Dispel as an insight of Summons, it costs him 3 magic points to cast, plus 2 magic points for each additional
   level of intensity."

#2 contradicts #1 and #3. Clearly in #1, you only double the initial cost of the Rune/Technique you have not mastered. This is confirmed in the second example (#3 above). The Dispel technique is doubled and the Truth is not for 2+1=3 MPs. If #1 and #3 are written correctly, had I cast Storm and Tap as Insight, I double the initial MPs for Storm to 2 and Tap to 2 for a total of 4. Four is not equal to 8 (2 multiplied by 4 (from bullet #2)).

The additional levels of intensity seem to always be doubled when one or more Runes/Techniques are only Insight RAW. The charts are simply 'Mastered' or 'Unmastered'. Clearly RAW, you don't multiply by 4 ever.

(I will repost this in the Core Rules Question slightly modified to the second Damastol example)

I use 'Insight' in all my wording to be precise, but I like the word 'infer' as well.

So, if you haven't mastered either, you spend 4 MPs, and after two rounds of concentration you have 2d6 MPs restored. You would be minus 3 out of 36 times, even 3 out of 36 times, and in the plus 30 out of 36 times. I believe 'should' in your example is the second round, not the third. You would be correct if bullet #2 is the correct interpretation, but #1 is more clearly defined and confirmed in #3. I have to believe #2 is the badly worded one.

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Dragon said:

#2 contradicts #1

How? #1 is an OR condition (not mastered one of the Runes or techniques).  #2 is an AND condition (with a Rune and a technique).  It's pointing out that for each Rune or technique unmastered, there is a doubling, not an addition.

[Dragon]

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

How? #1 is an OR condition (not mastered one of the Runes or techniques).  #2 is an AND condition (with a Rune and a technique).  It's pointing out that for each Rune or technique unmastered, there is a doubling, not an addition.

I really apologize for the redundant emphasis I am about to engage in, but I must not have been sufficiently clear with my previous emphasis of the particular word 'that'. I must not have sufficiently pointed to the quoted " 3 magic points " from the example. So I will be absurdly clear.

Sorcery cost is 1 MP for each rune/technique in the description (actually to the right of the spell name) as a base. So Steal Breath has two runes, Storm and Tap. If Storm is mastered, that rune costs 1 MP. If Storm is unmastered, #1 states 'that Rune' cost is doubled. Not all Rune costs. THAT Rune cost. THAT is critical to reading it. You are ignoring the word 'that'.  And it is exactly how the example in bullet #3 works. If Tap is also unmastered, THAT Rune cost is doubled. Hence both unmastered means mathematically the answer written in #1 is (1x2)+(1x2)=4. Each Rune/Technique cost doubled and added together. Mathematically, 2x2 happens to be the same as 2+2, but 2x2 is not how #1 is worded and #3's (1x2)+1=3 is clearly different than (1+1)x2=4. And #1 gives (1x2)+(1x2)=4, which is clearly different than #2's (1+1)x2x2=8. I spent years reading competitive mathematics word problems. I did well at them. Since university, I have spent decades reading and writing IT security requirements and processes and pointing out the flaws and rewriting them in official documents. I know when things contradict. 'That'.

You would be correct if the entire first paragraph said (quoted and changed, note the emphasis) and if #3 was reworded:

To cast a spell costs a minimum of 1 magic point per Rune
or technique contained in the spell. Each additional magic
point added to the spell adds 1 level of intensity (affecting
range, strength, or duration) to the spell. If the caster has not
mastered one of the Runes or techniques required in the spell,
but is using an associated Rune or technique as a substitute
(see above), the base cost for the spell is doubled.

But RAW says:

To cast a spell costs a minimum of 1 magic point per Rune
or technique contained in the spell. Each additional magic
point added to the spell adds 1 level of intensity (affecting
range, strength, or duration) to the spell. If the caster has not
mastered one of the Runes or techniques required in the spell,
but is using an associated Rune or technique as a substitute
(see above), the cost for that Rune or technique is doubled.

It is clearly a contradiction in either #1 or #2. #3 clearly suggests #1 is correct. We could not possibly get to the 3 MP cost ("it costs him 3
magic points to cast,") if doubling of the base Rune/Technique cost had occurred.

I am not saying which was intended to be correct. I point out the contradiction and that two pieces of evidence (#1 and #3) are more convincing than one piece (#2) to suggest which way it was intended. Jeff can answer in the Base Rule Questions thread. If he wants to update #1 and #3, that will be fine with me.

And yes, I majored in both Mathematics and Computer Science so I know the boolean operations of AND versus OR well also.

Not that it matters to the contradiction, but let me ask, under your "with a Rune and a technique", would Moonfire cast at base Strength/Duration/Range with all four Moon, Sky, Combine, and Summon unmastered, would it be 4 (base) x2x2=16 (doubled for unmastered Runes and doubled for unmastered Techniques) or 4 (base) x2x2x2x2=64 (4 different parts each doubled for 4*(2**4))? I just wondered your view when a spell has two Runes and two Techniques.

[jajagappa]

15 minutes ago, Dragon said:

#1 states 'that Rune' cost is doubled. Not all Rune costs. THAT Rune cost. THAT is critical to reading it.

And that is exactly how I read it.  ONE Rune (aka THAT Rune).

#1 sorcerer does not know one Rune (e.g. that one Rune, which could be Truth). The cost for THAT Rune doubles (1 x 2).  Note that it does not say that the cost for the spell doubles.

#2 sorcerer does not know a Rune and a Technique (e.g. Truth and Dispel).  The cost for each of those (THAT Rune and THAT Technique) doubles (1x2) + (1x2).  I agree it is not well worded as it implies a spell with one of each only.  But there is no contradiction to #1 as #1 is encapsulated within it.

#3 sorcerer knows Truth Rune does not know Dispel Technique.  The cost for the 2nd only doubles (1) + (1x2), so 3 MP (excluding MP for increased Strength).  No contradiction with #1.  Nor does it contradict #2 as it is not that case.

 

 

[Dragon]

2 hours ago, jajagappa said:

And that is exactly how I read it.  ONE Rune (aka THAT Rune).

#1 sorcerer does not know one Rune (e.g. that one Rune, which could be Truth). The cost for THAT Rune doubles (1 x 2).  Note that it does not say that the cost for the spell doubles.

#2 sorcerer does not know a Rune and a Technique (e.g. Truth and Dispel).  The cost for each of those (THAT Rune and THAT Technique) doubles (1x2) + (1x2).  I agree it is not well worded as it implies a spell with one of each only.  But there is no contradiction to #1 as #1 is encapsulated within it.

#3 sorcerer knows Truth Rune does not know Dispel Technique.  The cost for the 2nd only doubles (1) + (1x2), so 3 MP (excluding MP for increased Strength).  No contradiction with #1.  Nor does it contradict #2 as it is not that case.

 

 

Excellent. We are much closer than I had at first thought. We both think the badly written part is #2. But to me there is still a clear contradiction in #2. And that is the 'multipled by 4'. 

"if a sorcerer tries to cast a spell with a Rune and a technique they have not mastered, the magic point cost is multiplied by 4 (essentially, doubled twice)."

There is no place in your formula where you multiplied by 4, so that part of the sentence is wrong. You doubled twice and added them. You confused me with the original 'no addition', but I now understand how you meant it. So we agree how to read it correctly. I think it should be worded:

"if a sorcerer tries to cast a spell with a Rune and a technique they have not mastered, the magic point cost for each unmastered Rune/Technique is doubled."

Which eliminates what you call 'not well worded' and I call a clear contradiction.

I also think the discussion about doubling the MP cost of Intensity (i.e. Strength/Range/Duration) should be a separate paragraph, because otherwise I can foresee a lot of confusion about how much to double. A think a good summary would be:

Base MP cost = 1 for each Mastered Rune/Technique and 2 for each Rune/Technique for which the caster has only Insight. Total MP cost = Base cost + the Manipulation cost as documented in each of the Strength, Range, and Duration tables. If all Runes/Techniques are Mastered, use the number before the slash (/). If one or more Runes/Techniques are only available by Insight, use the number after the slash (/) in each table.

[jajagappa]

56 minutes ago, Dragon said:

"if a sorcerer tries to cast a spell with a Rune and a technique they have not mastered, the magic point cost for each unmastered Rune/Technique is doubled."

Yes, we're actually not far off. 🙂  I definitely agree that the "multiplied by 4" is wrong (and confusing) and your rewording here looks correct based on my reading of the text.

56 minutes ago, Dragon said:

Base MP cost = 1 for each Mastered Rune/Technique and 2 for each Rune/Technique for which the caster has only Insight. Total MP cost = Base cost + the Manipulation cost as documented in each of the Strength, Range, and Duration tables.

Yes, that looks good (and straightforward). (And I think we've both successfully cast our Logical Clarity spells!)

Edited April 28, 2020 by jajagappa

[Thaz]

On 4/28/2020 at 12:19 PM, GAZZA said:

I must confess that I've never really understood why anyone enchants MP storage matrices; in every version of the game that I am familiar with, there is an equivalent method of storing a spirit in such a way that you can use its MPs, and it will regain them on its own; typically you can get far more MPs per point of POW this way. Is it some sort of "don't abuse spirits" thing? I realise that technically spirits are subject to (e.g.) Control spells, but I believe only if you don't have appropriate conditions.

I do realise that MP storage items are not uncommon as treasures in published adventures or even as family heirlooms in the new RQG rules, but I've rarely seen any PCs enchant one.

I've certainly used one. I've recently started playing a Daka Fal assistant shammy (partly cos of this thread) in a new game. He's working up the Rune Points to be able to use the extended summon ancestor trick listed earlier on this thread. Meantime his role in the party is as buffer/caster. He's using Multispell to be able to cast lots of Strength, Disrupt, Dispel magic, Befuddles and that burns through MP. He didnt get a MP crystal in pre-gen (although our CA Healer did, played by my lovely wife so that's handy for her and a real bacon saver for the party). His second highest stat is Cha at 16. As such he's running into issues with spirit spell capacity. Also he is limited by the amount of spells gained. You start with 5 points + the assistant shammy bonus. He hasnt been able to learn Spirit Matrix and Command Spirit AND have a useful list of spells. One of his Ancestor Spirits DID have Magic Point Enchant :- Lucky roll. So he's used that. Those 6 MP extra are darn useful! Likewise I have a LM character on stanby who with that 6MP matrix would be able to do sooooo much more. They're dead handy at least in early game and possibly so in mid game if your GM isnt handing out crystals.  

[GAZZA]

Yeah fair enough if you're getting close (or over) the limit on spirits. Mind you that's new in RQG; RQ3 didn't have any limit to how many spirits you could have bound, and (until errata) the cost for an MP enchantment was 1 POW per MP stored (later errated to 1d10, but that's still less efficient than a Bind POW spirit for 1 POW).

However it is of course unreasonable for me to say that RQ3 didn't have such a limit in response to an RQG thread.

[PhilHibbs]

Back to Rune Magic crits! So a crit costs no RP. Anyone with a high POW has a good crit chance, especially your friend the munchkin Shaman Priest with loads of Soul Expansion. So load up your spell into a matrix and get the pimped shaman to cast it on you, using the earlier trick of "cancel & retry" if the crit doesn't happen.

[Joerg]

2 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Back to Rune Magic crits! So a crit costs no RP. Anyone with a high POW has a good crit chance, especially your friend the munchkin Shaman Priest with loads of Soul Expansion. So load up your spell into a matrix and get the pimped shaman to cast it on you, using the earlier trick of "cancel & retry" if the crit doesn't happen.

POW has nothing to do with Rune Magic casting chance any more, now it is the rune score that you roll. The Magic Skill modifier doesn't seem to apply.

[Shiningbrow]

7 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Back to Rune Magic crits! So a crit costs no RP. Anyone with a high POW has a good crit chance, especially your friend the munchkin Shaman Priest with loads of Soul Expansion. So load up your spell into a matrix and get the pimped shaman to cast it on you, using the earlier trick of "cancel & retry" if the crit doesn't happen.

I'm confused... Perhaps I'm missing something, or my brain simply isn't working...

But, once you've cast.the spell from the matrix, a) the RPs are spent, and b) the matrix needs to go back to the temple for the worship ceremony.

Even with other spells, once you've cast normally, the points are already spent. So trying for a 0 MP crit is a waste of time...

[PhilHibbs]

11 hours ago, Joerg said:

POW has nothing to do with Rune Magic casting chance any more, now it is the rune score that you roll. The Magic Skill modifier doesn't seem to apply.

If it's in a matrix, it's POWx5, not a rune. So if you need a spell that you have a poor rune rating in, pop it in a matrix. Gets around the CHA limit on RP as well.

6 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

But, once you've cast.the spell from the matrix, a) the RPs are spent, and b) the matrix needs to go back to the temple for the worship ceremony.

Even with other spells, once you've cast normally, the points are already spent. So trying for a 0 MP crit is a waste of time...

This is the long-game here - yes, it might take you a while to re-fill the matrix and get that critical success, but when you do (with 5 points of extension) then you've got the spell, for a whole year, without using up the RP.

And if you have a super gullible GM, you can just tell 'em that you made the critical under a different GM in the last scenario. And yeah, that scenario was set in 1625, sure.

Edited May 4, 2020 by PhilHibbs

[Shiningbrow]

19 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

This is the long-game here - yes, it might take you a while to re-fill the matrix and get that critical success, but when you do (with 5 points of extension) then you've got the spell, for a whole year, without using up the RP.

And if you have a super gullible GM, you can just tell 'em that you made the critical under a different GM in the last scenario. And yeah, that scenario was set in 1625, sure.

I'm sure I must be an idiot..  

Wasting, say, 50RPs to get that 1 crit for 0 RPs doesn't make sense... 

The last paragrap makes sense 😛

[PhilHibbs]

4 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

I'm sure I must be an idiot..  

Wasting, say, 50RPs to get that 1 crit for 0 RPs doesn't make sense... 

The last paragrap makes sense 😛

The original idea was "Any time you have RP left over the day before a worship ceremony..." 

[Pentallion]

On 3/8/2020 at 1:12 AM, Crel said:

I'm not entirely certain if it's Egregious, or even Munchkinnery, but I'm pretty sure RAW an Odaylan can use Martial Arts while transformed into a bear. Haven't done the math to see how good or not it is (and all the problems with bear-form aside), but I mean... that's at least cool, right?

Is there a category of Munchkinnery for cool stuff?

Works for the Panda Clan.

[Tyrian Telbenj]

On 4/28/2020 at 1:19 PM, GAZZA said:

I must confess that I've never really understood why anyone enchants MP storage matrices; in every version of the game that I am familiar with, there is an equivalent method of storing a spirit in such a way that you can use its MPs, and it will regain them on its own; typically you can get far more MPs per point of POW this way. Is it some sort of "don't abuse spirits" thing? I realise that technically spirits are subject to (e.g.) Control spells, but I believe only if you don't have appropriate conditions.

I do realise that MP storage items are not uncommon as treasures in published adventures or even as family heirlooms in the new RQG rules, but I've rarely seen any PCs enchant one.

i permit to my player to use theyr store mp in spirit combat to replanish the lost one...this is the only reason i have immagined to have them...

ps forgive my english

[HreshtIronBorne]

With the latest ruling from the Rules Questions Thread spells can be defensively boosted with MP. Which adds a whole layer of complexity to determining and dismantling magical defenses. Instead of a Humakti with 100 MP in storage casting one bonkers Sword Trance he is in fact incentivised to spend at least a handful of MP to bolster each spell. I would spend 10(5 RP worth) or 12(RP worth) per spell to beef them up to withstand Dispel 8s or Dismiss 4s. This eats up large chunks of resources rather quickly but, it doesn ensure that one spell stays up. 

 

I alao think this is sort of self balancing, someone brought up in another thread that a year long Extension of Shield 13 with a buttload of MP for dispel resist is amazing and almost impossible for an individual opponent to deal with. It ALSO basically remove your ability to be healed fast enough to not die or lose a limb, or maybe even be healed at all.

[Akhôrahil]

10 minutes ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

 

I alao think this is sort of self balancing, someone brought up in another thread that a year long Extension of Shield 13 with a buttload of MP for dispel resist is amazing and almost impossible for an individual opponent to deal with. It ALSO basically remove your ability to be healed fast enough to not die or lose a limb, or maybe even be healed at all.

Shield is what makes First Aid an important skill. :-). Also, when you have the MPs to spare, just cast a boosted big healing spell to punch through, if necessary.

[PhilHibbs]

I'm rather surprised at the ruling. I've discussed it many times with different groups and different GMs and I've never come across anyone who really thought it was a good idea on reflection. But if it is a rule that is adopted in your game, then as a munchkin you should absolutely stack up any long-duration spell with as many MPs as you can possibly muster. You do NOT want that year-long Flight spell to be blown out from under you at 300 feet.